Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[TruKingFan]

Kinda funny that nobody uses Kaliyev in these conversations. He was potentially a 1st round pick, but because he wasn’t nobody points to the fact that he looks to be an emerging stud.

Of course not since he doesn’t fit the narrative that the Kings don’t know how to develop forwards. But here’s a raw talented kid that scored 14 goals in his first full year in the league averaging less than 13 mins TOI. His time on the 4th line while derided continously, gave him an opportunity to learn the 200 ft game and towards the end of the season it AK was becoming more comfortable and was rewarded for it. I fully expect him to compete for a full time top-6 winger this season and will make make Moore or even AI dispensable by the end of this upcoming season.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Kinda funny that nobody uses Kaliyev in these conversations. He was potentially a 1st round pick, but because he wasn’t nobody points to the fact that he looks to be an emerging stud.

I’m talking about top five picks, not late first round picks.

Late first round and beyond is a total crapshoot. Yes, it’s important to hit on some of these picks, but most of them will miss, and very rarely do they become world class at their position.

Kaliyev is projecting as a reliable top six winger, which is solid for his draft position. No one is saying otherwise.

 

[Sol]

Byfield has all the check marks to be a world class center, but overall, yeah, I agree.

If Byfield doesn’t take a big step forward at the NHL level this season, I will be pretty worried.

I think so too. But I don’t think he has the game sense and hockey iq to put it together since it’s been really rough watching him in the NHL and he sucked in the WJC

 

[Herby]

While true, last year the Ducks had 6-7 open spots including where he ended up. Murray wasn't spending crap on his team and went with what they had. They were really really bad . Zegras was really impressive, nobody can deny that, but his -21 and 39 pct face off were awful. This is your #1 or #2 center depending on which night getzlaf played. He can't play defense at all.

Now lets say the Kings drafted him, where does he play? Not the top two lines, there are no spots there. That leaves the 3rd line center, which was for either Byfield or Valardi . So now where? He could've replaced Byfield, but we don't know what Blake would do. It's pretty clear he's not having the same season here the way the 3rd line was used. He wouldn't be getting top minutes, even on the pp. Brown and AA/Grundy/AI/? as his wingers... oh boy, that would've been a train wreck.

Where would he play? Maybe the same role the Kings gave a RW who skates like Matt Greene? That could be a start. If the Kings pulled Turcotte after scoring 1 goal in 19 conference games it's very likely they pull Zegras and he shows them enough where they don't sign a 2C last off-season. The signing of Danault was obviously needed with the awful progression of Turcotte and Vilardi in 20-21.

Zegras is my favorite young player in the game. His defense will come around.
That last Kings vs Ducks game was a good showing for Byfield. He went hard against Zegras and I hope thats a battle we see for a long time to come.
Byfield had no business facing off against McDavid in a tight playoff series. In a normal scenario a rebuilding Kings are nowhere near the playoffs.
But a low stakes game matched up against Zegras he won many shifts. Not worried about Byfield at this moment but Turcotte is definitely troubling. Another year for him in the AHL is not good for a top pick but with all the outside acquisitions there is no room for him to slot in.

The lack of slotting in for Turcotte and Vilardi is due to their own performances on the ice, with some injury concerns for Turcotte mixed in. No team is purposely pushing down players they used #5 and #11 picks on and moving them to wing if they thought those said players could play in the league as centers. And Blake was right, neither Turcotte or Vilardi could have been the 2C last year and so they had to look to external options in a year they were trying to make the playoffs.

The copium on this board when it comes to both Turcotte and Byfield is embarrassing.

Zegras is a better hockey player than Turcotte by every conceivable metric of hockey, and it’s not close. Full stop. Accept it. The Kings blew that pick. Turcotte may not even have an NHL career at this point.

Byfield, at the very least, is still young and playing in the NHL. He has some time left.

It's a really really bad and embarrassing look for our board the way this kid is trashed on here by the usual suspects because of the mistakes by the Kings evaluators. Every one of those people would be praising Blake to no-end if he had drafted Zegras.

Although in fairness I do remember many similar posts back in the day directed towards Kopitar by Sharks and Ducks fans, somehow trying to minimize what AK was doing because their GM's chose Bobby Ryan and Devin Setoguchi over him. So it's not something exclusive to just this board.

I guess you kind of made my point for me...Kempe has consistently trended up the last 3 season...AFTER playing 2.5 NHL seasons. I would bet that's kind of the norm for top line players out there not named McDavid. Kempe didn't BOOM out of anywhere, try paying some f***ing attention for once in the middle of your ignorant, constant bitching.

Look, he is back to his "barely old enough to buy a beer" nonsense despite it being completely debunked yesterday with actual factual evidence about when top line players become productive NHL'ers.

But ya, keep telling yourself it's only McDavid who is producing in the NHL before age 23. The Kings have two former top prospects who will be fighting to stay off the waiver wire in a couple of weeks and we are going to just pretend like they are "kids"

And LOL at using flukey outliers.

Axl bought 50 scratcher tickets, 2 of the first 48 won and he is convinced the next 2 are going to win because those 2 won. Wonderful argument.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]YEAR[/TD]
[TD]TEAM[/TD]
[TD]LEAGUE[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]PTS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2019-20[/TD]
[TD]USA U20[/TD]
[TD]WJC-20[/TD]

[TD]

5​

[/TD]

[TD]

0​

[/TD]

[TD]

9​

[/TD]

[TD]

9​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Boston U[/TD]
[TD]NCAA[/TD]

[TD]

33​

[/TD]

[TD]

11​

[/TD]

[TD]

25​

[/TD]

[TD]

36​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2020-21[/TD]
[TD]Anaheim[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]

[TD]

24​

[/TD]

[TD]

3​

[/TD]

[TD]

10​

[/TD]

[TD]

13​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]San Diego[/TD]
[TD]AHL[/TD]

[TD]

17​

[/TD]

[TD]

10​

[/TD]

[TD]

11​

[/TD]

[TD]

21​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]USA U20[/TD]
[TD]WJC-20[/TD]

[TD]

7​

[/TD]

[TD]

7​

[/TD]

[TD]

11​

[/TD]

[TD]

18​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2021-22[/TD]
[TD]Anaheim[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]

[TD]

75​

[/TD]

[TD]

23​

[/TD]

[TD]

38​

[/TD]

[TD]

61​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

This is what Zegras has done since being drafted.

You can see the continual improvement.

His success probably has nothing to do with Anaheim's drafting or developing. He's just good.

Certain people on this board continue to place an insane amount of emphasis on what players did at age 17 in an unusual team situation which the NTDP is and how they were ranked by media services at 17 and completely ignoring what those players have shown at the NCAA, AHL and NHL levels in the subsequent 3 seasons.

Here they are across all competitions since being drafted

NCAA

Zegras - 33GP, 11G, 25A, 36 Pts
Turcotte - 29GP, 9G, 17A, 26 Pts

AHL

Zegras - 17GP, 10G, 11A, 21 Pts
Turcotte - 59GP, 12G, 29A, 39 Pts

World Junior

Zegras - 12GP, 7G, 20A, 27 Pts
Turcotte - 12GP, 3G, 7A, 10 Pts

NHL

Zegras - 99GP, 26G, 48A, 74 Pts
Turcotte - 8GP, 0G, 0A, 0 Pts

Zegras has a higher PPG over 100 NHL games than Turcotte has over 60 AHL games, do people realize the massive difference between those 2 leagues?

And we have some here saying the only difference with the players is injury, it is absolutely insane to read some of the stuff posted here.

Look, I wasn't huge on Zegras and I was wrong, he has clearly been everything that his ceiling suggested and probably more. Is it that hard to just take an L and admit that you and the Kings made the wrong pick?

You can win and have flashy play. It doesn't have to be an either/or choice. I'm really hoping the young guys step up this season.

Thank You!

But we have some here who just despise players (unless they are Kings) who play that way, despise highly skilled guys and tear them down time and time in favor of "DL Players" who "Play the Kings way". They want players who "Play the Kings Way" and then wonder why the team struggles to score goals. Someone else in this thread earlier called Zegras a selfish stats player, with absolutely zero evidence to back it up, they just hate Zegras and hate that the Kings made the wrong pick.

Were you around for the 2021 playoffs? It was something else seeing certain people just not being able to come to terms that a flashy 5'7 goal-scorer that the Kings passed up on in the 2019 draft was one of the best players on the ice in the SC playoffs. It was quite hilarious to see these guys who for weeks insisted that you couldn't win in the playoffs with players like that have to eat their words.

 

[johnjm22]

I'm not expecting much from Byfield early on this season. My hope is that they keep playing him and his game starts to come together down the stretch and into the playoffs.

I'm still not sold on Kaliyev. On ES offense he actually looks a lot like Vilardi; great shot, but he's so slow he rarely find himself in position to use it. Always trailing the play. Arthur has done a much better job rounding out other aspects of his game though.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

All I knows is this: if the Kings had drafted Zegras and Stutzle, everyone in the league would have us pegged to win another Cup in the next few years. And we very easily could have. Neither of those picks were off the board.

 

[Herby]

All I knows is this: if the Kings had drafted Zegras and Stutzle, everyone in the league would have us pegged to win another Cup in the next few years. And we very easily could have. Neither of those picks were off the board.

Imagine basically transitioning down the middle from Kopitar and Carter to Stutzle and Zegras.

Like the Green Bay Packers at QB.

 

[King'sPawn]

Imagine basically transitioning down the middle from Kopitar and Carter to Stutzle and Zegras.

Like the Green Bay Packers at QB.

I honestly think a case could be made that Stutzle and Zegras would be in the same position Byfield/Kaliyev/Turcotte are in if they were drafted by the Kings.

Yannetti essentially said they prefer slow-cooking their prospects. They'd still be leaning on Kopitar as 1C, and Danault's such a good get that I don't see them passing up on trying to sign him.

Would they have produced more? Possibly. But the Kings would still be leaning on the vets to lead the charge. Which is kind of the issue I'm arguing. They aren't very flexible in their attitude of handling prospects.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Don't forget about this potential bust...

 

[BringTheReign]

I honestly think a case could be made that Stutzle and Zegras would be in the same position Byfield/Kaliyev/Turcotte are in if they were drafted by the Kings.

Yannetti essentially said they prefer slow-cooking their prospects. They'd still be leaning on Kopitar as 1C, and Danault's such a good get that I don't see them passing up on trying to sign him.

Would they have produced more? Possibly. But the Kings would still be leaning on the vets to lead the charge. Which is kind of the issue I'm arguing. They aren't very flexible in their attitude of handling prospects.

This is a great point. I think the Kings have it figured out when it comes to developing goaltenders and defensemen in this regard, but they just don't understand how to produce elite forwards still on their ELCs.

In an admittedly twisted way, picking Turcotte and Byfield over Zegras and Stutzle almost makes sense. The Kings knew they sucked at developing dynamic, flashy offensive players so they tried to play to their strengths and take players who would slow cook into all-around play-drivers. Turcotte thus far has been a failure, and the book is still out on Byfield.

I'll add that I think Dach or Cozens would've been the pick before Zegras if not Turcotte, basically for the same reason discussed above.

 

[johnjm22]

If I had a choice between one of these pairs:
Sutzle/Zegras
or
Byfield/Turcotte

I would still pick Byfield/Turcotte. Mainly because of Byfield's upside. I think Sutzle and Zegras are potential high end 1st line players, but I think Byfield is potentially a foundational piece. He just has that pedigree.

 

[King'sPawn]

This is a great point. I think the Kings have it figured out when it comes to developing goaltenders and defensemen in this regard, but they just don't understand how to produce elite forwards still on their ELCs.

In an admittedly twisted way, picking Turcotte and Byfield over Zegras and Stutzle almost makes sense. The Kings knew they sucked at developing dynamic, flashy offensive players so they tried to play to their strengths and take players who would slow cook into all-around play-drivers. Turcotte thus far has been a failure, and the book is still out on Byfield.

I'll add that I think Dach or Cozens would've been the pick before Zegras if not Turcotte, basically for the same reason discussed above.

For what little it's worth, I do believe the Kings liked Zegras and Boldy, too. It's not the Kings are anti-skill. But they do value elements in a player's game that has them quality players in case the skill never gets to the next level.

I was thinking earlier tonight about forwards the Kings "ruined" by rushing. And by that, I mean put in a top-6 role by the age of 20 and quickly fizzled out of the NHL: Oscar Moller. I swear I remember Lombardi admitting he was rushed, but I can't find any corroborating evidence - is it the Mandela Effect?

I wonder if how things worked out with him had an impact in the perception and attitude of worrying about rushing forwards?

 

[bsu]

If I had a choice between one of these pairs:
Sutzle/Zegras
or
Byfield/Turcotte

I would still pick Byfield/Turcotte. Mainly because of Byfield's upside. I think Sutzle and Zegras are potential high end 1st line players, but I think Byfield is potentially a foundational piece. He just has that pedigree.

Swear on it.

 

[Cheech89]

You can win and have flashy play. It doesn't have to be an either/or choice. I'm really hoping the young guys step up this season.

Or you can win without flashy play, which is what we did last season beyond expectations. This is a result oriented business. As long as we win, I don’t care how. GKG

If all that’s on your “mind” is next season and getting more than 99 points, you should be mad about having Turcotte and Byfield instead of Zegras and Stutzle.

If all things are rosy, wouldn’t they be that much prettier with 2 Michigan goals a year, a premiere diver, 99 points and a chance to play deep into the first round before losing to Jack Campbell?

Which Kings team has a better chance of a cup run before Kopitar is due a new contract? The current one, or one where the last 6 first round picks delivered 2 stars going into next camp coming off a 99 point season.

But don’t forget they made McJesus nervous for 5 seconds while being unable to solve Mike Smith after multiple kicks at the can. At least when Dave Taylor’s crew of solid vets plus strategic dumpster finds made it to the playoffs, they bowed out to pre cap dynasty franchises.

I think mcjesus was nervous for far more than just 5 seconds

 

[johnjm22]

Swear on it.

Unless you have anything of value to contribute, you can go back to your own board now.

 

[Cheech89]

View attachment 579610

Trending up you say? Get your head out of your ass. I know I’m asking for a lot but do try. At least look at his stats before you talk out of your ass like usual.

A career average of nearly 15 goals and last season he doubles his goal output AND doubles his point production. That’s not a pattern genius. That’s what we call an anomaly.

What about context???? Didn’t we also add at least two top 6 players the year Kempe went off ( RV and Danault)? Should we also just ignore the progression on Moore and other players on the team??

 

[Sol]

Where would he play? Maybe the same role the Kings gave a RW who skates like Matt Greene? That could be a start. If the Kings pulled Turcotte after scoring 1 goal in 19 conference games it's very likely they pull Zegras and he shows them enough where they don't sign a 2C last off-season. The signing of Danault was obviously needed with the awful progression of Turcotte and Vilardi in 20-21.


The lack of slotting in for Turcotte and Vilardi is due to their own performances on the ice, with some injury concerns for Turcotte mixed in. No team is purposely pushing down players they used #5 and #11 picks on and moving them to wing if they thought those said players could play in the league as centers. And Blake was right, neither Turcotte or Vilardi could have been the 2C last year and so they had to look to external options in a year they were trying to make the playoffs.



It's a really really bad and embarrassing look for our board the way this kid is trashed on here by the usual suspects because of the mistakes by the Kings evaluators. Every one of those people would be praising Blake to no-end if he had drafted Zegras.

Although in fairness I do remember many similar posts back in the day directed towards Kopitar by Sharks and Ducks fans, somehow trying to minimize what AK was doing because their GM's chose Bobby Ryan and Devin Setoguchi over him. So it's not something exclusive to just this board.



Look, he is back to his "barely old enough to buy a beer" nonsense despite it being completely debunked yesterday with actual factual evidence about when top line players become productive NHL'ers.

But ya, keep telling yourself it's only McDavid who is producing in the NHL before age 23. The Kings have two former top prospects who will be fighting to stay off the waiver wire in a couple of weeks and we are going to just pretend like they are "kids"

And LOL at using flukey outliers.

Axl bought 50 scratcher tickets, 2 of the first 48 won and he is convinced the next 2 are going to win because those 2 won. Wonderful argument.

Certain people on this board continue to place an insane amount of emphasis on what players did at age 17 in an unusual team situation which the NTDP is and how they were ranked by media services at 17 and completely ignoring what those players have shown at the NCAA, AHL and NHL levels in the subsequent 3 seasons.

Here they are across all competitions since being drafted

NCAA

Zegras - 33GP, 11G, 25A, 36 Pts
Turcotte - 29GP, 9G, 17A, 26 Pts

AHL

Zegras - 17GP, 10G, 11A, 21 Pts
Turcotte - 59GP, 12G, 29A, 39 Pts

World Junior

Zegras - 12GP, 7G, 20A, 27 Pts
Turcotte - 12GP, 3G, 7A, 10 Pts

NHL

Zegras - 99GP, 26G, 48A, 74 Pts
Turcotte - 8GP, 0G, 0A, 0 Pts

Zegras has a higher PPG over 100 NHL games than Turcotte has over 60 AHL games, do people realize the massive difference between those 2 leagues?

And we have some here saying the only difference with the players is injury, it is absolutely insane to read some of the stuff posted here.

Look, I wasn't huge on Zegras and I was wrong, he has clearly been everything that his ceiling suggested and probably more. Is it that hard to just take an L and admit that you and the Kings made the wrong pick?



Thank You!

But we have some here who just despise players (unless they are Kings) who play that way, despise highly skilled guys and tear them down time and time in favor of "DL Players" who "Play the Kings way". They want players who "Play the Kings Way" and then wonder why the team struggles to score goals. Someone else in this thread earlier called Zegras a selfish stats player, with absolutely zero evidence to back it up, they just hate Zegras and hate that the Kings made the wrong pick.

Were you around for the 2021 playoffs? It was something else seeing certain people just not being able to come to terms that a flashy 5'7 goal-scorer that the Kings passed up on in the 2019 draft was one of the best players on the ice in the SC playoffs. It was quite hilarious to see these guys who for weeks insisted that you couldn't win in the playoffs with players like that have to eat their words.

A lot of people don't like the fact that Zegras himself completely outshines all of our prospects by thousands of miles because it destroys their "OMG HE NEEDS 5 YEARS TO DEVELOP AND THEN HE CAN SHOW SIGNS OF BEING A GOOD PLAYER" bullshit.


Zegras is very close to home with Anaheim, and he would be our best prospect by far.

People are too quick to ride the scouts and devs but look no further than Zegras if you want to look at what we should have gotten. and what the Kings have gotten now.

Our prospects cant hold a candle to his ceiling and shown ZERO signs of it. All based on hope.

This is a great point. I think the Kings have it figured out when it comes to developing goaltenders and defensemen in this regard, but they just don't understand how to produce elite forwards still on their ELCs.

In an admittedly twisted way, picking Turcotte and Byfield over Zegras and Stutzle almost makes sense. The Kings knew they sucked at developing dynamic, flashy offensive players so they tried to play to their strengths and take players who would slow cook into all-around play-drivers. Turcotte thus far has been a failure, and the book is still out on Byfield.

I'll add that I think Dach or Cozens would've been the pick before Zegras if not Turcotte, basically for the same reason discussed above.

It's not really a good point. Stutzle was much more NHL ready than Byfield and showed a lot more skill than Byfield. The reason why Kings chose Byfield was because he's that unicorn archetype of being fast, tall, skilled center with a great shot.

Stutzle was a really solid player on draft day. Byfield pick was based on hope. I don't think anyone can disagree with that whenever you see the draft videos of the players. One was clearly more skilled than the other.

 

[Sol]

What about context???? Didn’t we also add at least two top 6 players the year Kempe went off ( RV and Danault)? Should we also just ignore the progression on Moore and other players on the team??

Im talking about using Kempe as an example that the Kings need 5-6 years to develop first round players being "normal". Kempe is being used as the only example and im pointing out that its very likely an anomalous season. Contract years tend to have players playing harder for a fat check. Happens often.

If I had a choice between one of these pairs:
Sutzle/Zegras
or
Byfield/Turcotte

I would still pick Byfield/Turcotte. Mainly because of Byfield's upside. I think Sutzle and Zegras are potential high end 1st line players, but I think Byfield is potentially a foundational piece. He just has that pedigree.

You cannot be serious.

 

[johnjm22]

You cannot be serious.

Byfield has the highest upside of those 4 players. That's not a controversial take.

For me, I'm going with the guy with the highest upside. Boom or bust.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

Unless you have anything of value to contribute, you can go back to your own board now.

He never does!

 

[KingsFan7824]

The whar if scenarios with draft picks will drive you insane if you stare at it too long.

 

[Statto]

Kempe will be interesting to watch for sure. Either we'll see last years Kempe, or the one who goes double digit games without scoring. I think we all hope its the former.

His wider game play improved, he took charge, drove play and shot the puck more. It’s not as if he was riding an unsustainable sh% or was piggy backing on his C (Kopitar) having a career year. As such I’m not overly worried about Kempe.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Im talking about using Kempe as an example that the Kings need 5-6 years to develop first round players being "normal". Kempe is being used as the only example and im pointing out that its very likely an anomalous season. Contract years tend to have players playing harder for a fat check. Happens often.

So, then it's safe to say that Danault is an anomaly as well? Maybe EVERYTHING that's good about the Kings right now is an anomaly. "The world according to Sol"

 

[mysterman2]

The whar if scenarios with draft picks will drive you insane if you stare at it too long.

back in the day Id look at the NHL Record Book and Draft Guide and marvel at all of the busts the King took while an all star drafted a pick or two later. Dawned on me- it wasnt the Kings....it was all NHL teams and that in reality its very true- the draft is largely a crap shoot. There are some teams with better scouting or data and what not but at the end of the day its largely a game of chance. Shea Weber was taken 49th overall as an example.

 

[King'sPawn]

back in the day Id look at the NHL Record Book and Draft Guide and marvel at all of the busts the King took while an all star drafted a pick or two later. Dawned on me- it wasnt the Kings....it was all NHL teams and that in reality its very true- the draft is largely a crap shoot. There are some teams with better scouting or data and what not but at the end of the day its largely a game of chance. Shea Weber was taken 49th overall as an example.

If it was truly that random, then there would be a wider spread of success stories all over each draft year. There would be more stars in third and fourth rounds than first rounds in some years. Would you rather have 10 first round picks or, say, 20 fourth round picks, which would you take?

I think you are oversimplifying the "luck" factor.

Yes, in every year, players who are great players fall. That's because these are inexact sciences which do have variables. But those players also went to teams who can make it work.

There's a reason why Edmonton has had limited success. They've relied on their top-10 picks to carry them, and very little outside the first round has had any success. That's not just luck.