Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[psych3man]

The cap space number is totally made up or if it's taken off of capfriendly as some have said then it's just blindly accepting and regurgitating a number that isn't there to serve that purpose.

Jesse, I appreciate you coming on here and bantering at times with us diehards.

I have a few questions regarding your frustration with others' (and our) interpretation of the the Kings cap situation:

(1) What is the truth about the Kings present cap situation that you think we and others don't presently know or understand? What is the Kings present cap number?

(2) How are we supposed to know what we don't know unless someone(s) who do know, (i.e., Kings management or any media representative) educate us?

(3) Is it true, as the You Tube guy referenced above and us diehards communicate, that the Kings don't presently have much cap room? If so, isn't that what we are all communicating about? Are we expected to know all the ins and outs if they are never communicated to us (see 2 above)?

(4) Aren't we just smart guys and gals who love the Kings and are just taking the data before us as best we know it and trying to discuss how we might play it under those circumstances?

Comment: Boomer Gordon and Jake Hahn on Sirius NHL Network are incredibly well informed across the NHL and are a joy to listen to. Boomer gave Blake a 'B' rating (A-F, like school) for this past year.

 

[johnjm22]

Pundits in general, regardless of the field they're covering, are usually bad.

Most of the time they're just regurgitating cliches and tropes they've heard elsewhere. Repeating all the common narratives.

In hockey it's particularly bad because much of the game is difficult to quantify. Have you ever heard an "analyst" on the NBC/TNT intermission reports actually say anything worth listening to?

Mibury, Roenick, Carter, Jones etc. are just there to get a paycheck. They don't really add anything to the broadcast that a million other people couldn't add.

 

[Sol]

OMG this would be a PERFECT tag line for you Sol. LOL. This line from you wins the internet today.

(BTW, i understand what you meant -- but taken out of context, it's a LMAO perfect Sol comment. I mean that in a complementary way; seriously I do).

Lol I know right ? Contrary to popular belief I am pretty optimistic person. Only a pessimist to the Kings lmao.

 

[Docgonzo]

I always disliked Hammond, it’s seemed like he didn’t enjoy his job and it was beneath him. Just something he had to do until they gave him a better gig.

I do miss Rosen, except for like Dooley and Jesse, a lot of the coverage of the Kings comes off as pompous. Like their opinions are handed down from the hockey gods like Moses and the Ten Commandments. Kings coverage seems to be either aloof and no clue or pompous and infallible.

 

[Sol]

Dooley seems extremely tame unless I’m missing something

I always disliked Hammond, it’s seemed like he didn’t enjoy his job and it was beneath him. Just something he had to do until they gave him a better gig.

I do miss Rosen, except for like Dooley and Jesse, a lot of the coverage of the Kings comes off as pompous. Like their opinions are handed down from the hockey gods like Moses and the Ten Commandments. Kings coverage seems to be either aloof and no clue or pompous and infallible.

This times a billion

They have never let go of the cup teams and the cup

 

[Kurrilino]

You mean like this Disney On Ice garbage they did for their first game...

I don't mind the goofy stuff at all.
There are kids and woman in the building as well.

What i really have a problem with is that our 1st line center is not able to control a game and out 1st defender loses every footrace while both demanding $10 mill

 

[Sol]

I don't mind the goofy stuff at all.
There are kids and woman in the building as well.

What i really have a problem with is that our 1st line center is not able to control a game and out 1st defender loses every footrace while both demanding $10 mill

Just wait until Kopitar hits his prime naysayer

 

[KingsFan7824]

I don't mind the goofy stuff at all.
There are kids and woman in the building as well.

What i really have a problem with is that our 1st line center is not able to control a game and out 1st defender loses every footrace while both demanding $10 mill

It's called the going rate for 2 time Cup winners hitting free agency. They're moves any team in that situation makes. Only if they wanted to go elsewhere are they not here. Expecting the Kings to be some exception to that is setting yourself up to endlessly complain about the same thing, again, and again, and again, for years on end.

Maybe if they win just the 1 Cup, Kopitar and Doughty get a post-2011 Bergeron type deal, but they got the Kane and Toews kind instead.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I haven't gone to a single game since the 14 Finals. Used to go to at least 20 a year, they lost my revenue due to the presentation being unbearable.

I know of at least 6 loooooooong term season ticket holders that cancelled for the same reasons. Its a shitty experience.

Which means the presentation was bad during the time they were a serious franchise that had expectations of winning? Because you couldn't have known they would crap the bed as badly as they did after June 2014 so soon after June 2014.

 

[Kurrilino]

It's called the going rate for 2 time Cup winners hitting free agency. They're moves any team in that situation makes. Only if they wanted to go elsewhere are they not here. Expecting the Kings to be some exception to that is setting yourself up to endlessly complain about the same thing, again, and again, and again, for years on end.

Maybe if they win just the 1 Cup, Kopitar and Doughty get a post-2011 Bergeron type deal, but they got the Kane and Toews kind instead.

The moment he asked for 10 mill, was the moment he had to be traded especially with the length of the contract requested.

Those pieces in return would have served us way better than many years bottom of the league hockey

 

[Sol]

The moment he asked for 10 mill, was the moment he had to be traded especially with the length of the contract requested.

Those pieces in return would have served us way better than many years bottom of the league hockey

Kings and Hawks learned a valuable lesson. Just because you won with them doesn’t mean you will continue to. Cap strapping the team with older players is one way to f*** it up and make the fall from grace immediate.

I doubt the Kings will do this again.

 

[KingsFan7824]

The moment he asked for 10 mill, was the moment he had to be traded especially with the length of the contract requested.

Those pieces in return would have served us way better than many years bottom of the league hockey

Yeah, except no team is trading their 2 time Cup winning 1C when they're in 1st place in the division, and top 5 overall. Which is where the Kings were on the day he re-signed. But, again, you want the Kings to have bewn some impossible exception.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Kings and Hawks learned a valuable lesson. Just because you won with them doesn’t mean you will continue to. Cap strapping the team with older players is one way to f*** it up and make the fall from grace immediate.

I doubt the Kings will do this again.

If they ever win again, they will. Every team does. Especially if they're more than a 1 hit wonder.

You reward your star franchise players that win championships. What league do you think this is? Show me the winning team that hasn't kept their most important guys that want to stay?

 

[All The Kings Men]

Jesse, I appreciate you coming on here and bantering at times with us diehards.

My pleasure. It's how I started... it's probably how I'll finish.

I have a few questions regarding your frustration with others' (and our) interpretation of the the Kings cap situation:

(1) What is the truth about the Kings present cap situation that you think we and others don't presently know or understand? What is the Kings present cap number?

I'll try and be brief. (spoiler alert: I failed)

The Hockey Guy said $1.5 (more or less) in Cap Space

BUT

that number is pulled from CapFriendly and is for a Kings team with 15 forwards and 5 defenseman

There are still two players without contracts that will presumably make the LA Kings roster to start the season that aren't factored in (Anderson/Durzi) AND that number assumes that Moverare, Spence, Bjornfot, Lias Andersson, Vilardi AND Kupari are all on the team.

There is no "current cap number" because we have no idea who's actually making the team or how much Anderson and Durzi will wind up signing for.

It's an entirely meaningless conversation at the moment. HOWEVER IF YOU MUST...

Kempe-Kopitar-Fiala
Moore-Danault-Arvidsson
Iafallo-Byfield-Kaliyev
Lemieux-Lizotte-Grundstrom

X-Doughty
Edler-Roy
X-Walker

Quick
Petersen

THAT roster gives the Kings $6,428,333 in cap space and presumably a need to
- sign Anderson
- sign Durzi
- add no more than three additional players from the following pool
Bjornfot, Moverare, Spence, Clarke, Vilardi, Andersson, Kupari, Anderson Dolan

The 12 F and 4 D I listed above are, in my mind, non-negotiable primarily because of their contracts and the fact that they were all recently signed.

I just can't see a world where the Kings give Lemieux or Grundstrom an extension of $1M+ and then immediately send them to Ontario but I suppose it's theoretically possible.

(2) How are we supposed to know what we don't know unless someone(s) who do know, (i.e., Kings management or any media representative) educate us?

You DON'T! I like to think that I don't get mad at people for their opinions or lack of knowledge.

If Johnny Utah thinks the team needs to get tougher and I disagree... well hey we disagree! But it's subjective so he's not pissing me off with that take. That's his opinion and he's entitled to it!


BUT if someone gets up on a soapbox and says "LISTEN TO ME MY AUDIENCE FOR I SHALL TELL YOU MY THOUGHTS!" and then that person gets a bunch of stuff wrong? And it's stuff that's easily researched?

That's when I get annoyed.

I probably shouldn't...

(3) Is it true, as the You Tube guy referenced above and us diehards communicate, that the Kings don't presently have much cap room? If so, isn't that what we are all communicating about? Are we expected to know all the ins and outs if they are never communicated to us (see 2 above)?

The Kings have very little cap space.

The way I see it... they probably have about $4M in cap space to re-sign Anderson and Durzi.

(4) Aren't we just smart guys and gals who love the Kings and are just taking the data before us as best we know it and trying to discuss how we might play it under those circumstances?

Generally speaking I don't harbor any ill will towards any fan that's just trying to have a fun time talking to other fans about the teams they love. It's a complicated industry and even people that know it well and work in it every day don't fully understand it.

A member of the Kings front office staff answered an email of mine last season when I asked about a mundane detail of contract status and included an epilogue that basically said

"None of what I just told you is written down anywhere. It's not an actual rule it's just what everybody agrees is how things are done"

I'm paraphrasing but that's what we're dealing with.

Hell I downloaded the CBA to try and find some stuff out for myself and near as I can tell the ONLY place the CBA makes any distinction between forward and defense is in the "Post Trade Deadline Emergency Recall" section. Other than that... there doesn't seem to be any kind of legal or contractual difference.

What really grinds MY gears (said in best Peter Griffin voice) is when people misrepresent the data (intentionally or not) or represent the data in a way that was not intended.

For example... people that would use individual game corsi scores as evidence that one player out performed another.... NOT how Corsi was designed to be used and not a terribly meaningful application of the metric. So don't do it OR if you are going to do it... DON'T make it sound like you're saying something profound.


OK... enough moralizing out of me.

All of this is just my ego and grumpiness anyway. Feel free to ignore all of it.

Comment: Boomer Gordon and Jake Hahn on Sirius NHL Network are incredibly well informed across the NHL and are a joy to listen to. Boomer gave Blake a 'B' rating (A-F, like school) for this past year.

I don't listen so I can't comment but I will say that with 32 teams in the league it seems unlikely to me that any one human being could be "well informed" about more than 1 or mayyybe 2.

I work for the Kings, I watch the Kings, I think about the Kings constantly, I host the pregame radio show, I host the teams podcast, I talk to the PR staff, the front office staff, the coaching staff, I attend every home game, every practice, every camp..... ETC ETC ETC


and I'm uncomfortable calling myself "well informed" about the LA Kings.

SO that's the kind of highbar we're working with when you ask me why I get grumpy about stuff.

I'm just a lunatic. What can I tell ya?

 

[Master Yoda]

I always disliked Hammond, it’s seemed like he didn’t enjoy his job and it was beneath him. Just something he had to do until they gave him a better gig.

I do miss Rosen, except for like Dooley and Jesse, a lot of the coverage of the Kings comes off as pompous. Like their opinions are handed down from the hockey gods like Moses and the Ten Commandments. Kings coverage seems to be either aloof and no clue or pompous and infallible.

Can't hate on Hammond. He got the thing started and built a place where Kings fans went to talk Kings hockey and get real Kings news sometimes before other outlets.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Kings and Hawks learned a valuable lesson. Just because you won with them doesn’t mean you will continue to. Cap strapping the team with older players is one way to f*** it up and make the fall from grace immediate.

I doubt the Kings will do this again.

You guys are either hilarious or dumb as dirt.

 

[Sol]

You guys are either hilarious or dumb as dirt.

I’ll be nice and say sure

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

My pleasure. It's how I started... it's probably how I'll finish.

I'll try and be brief. (spoiler alert: I failed)

The Hockey Guy said $1.5 (more or less) in Cap Space

BUT

that number is pulled from CapFriendly and is for a Kings team with 15 forwards and 5 defenseman

There are still two players without contracts that will presumably make the LA Kings roster to start the season that aren't factored in (Anderson/Durzi) AND that number assumes that Moverare, Spence, Bjornfot, Lias Andersson, Vilardi AND Kupari are all on the team.

There is no "current cap number" because we have no idea who's actually making the team or how much Anderson and Durzi will wind up signing for.

It's an entirely meaningless conversation at the moment. HOWEVER IF YOU MUST...

Kempe-Kopitar-Fiala
Moore-Danault-Arvidsson
Iafallo-Byfield-Kaliyev
Lemieux-Lizotte-Grundstrom

X-Doughty
Edler-Roy
X-Walker

Quick
Petersen

THAT roster gives the Kings $6,428,333 in cap space and presumably a need to
- sign Anderson
- sign Durzi
- add no more than three additional players from the following pool
Bjornfot, Moverare, Spence, Clarke, Vilardi, Andersson, Kupari, Anderson Dolan

The 12 F and 4 D I listed above are, in my mind, non-negotiable primarily because of their contracts and the fact that they were all recently signed.

I just can't see a world where the Kings give Lemieux or Grundstrom an extension of $1M+ and then immediately send them to Ontario but I suppose it's theoretically possible.

You DON'T! I like to think that I don't get mad at people for their opinions or lack of knowledge.

If Johnny Utah thinks the team needs to get tougher and I disagree... well hey we disagree! But it's subjective so he's not pissing me off with that take. That's his opinion and he's entitled to it!


BUT if someone gets up on a soapbox and says "LISTEN TO ME MY AUDIENCE FOR I SHALL TELL YOU MY THOUGHTS!" and then that person gets a bunch of stuff wrong? And it's stuff that's easily researched?

That's when I get annoyed.

I probably shouldn't...



The Kings have very little cap space.

The way I see it... they probably have about $4M in cap space to re-sign Anderson and Durzi.

Generally speaking I don't harbor any ill will towards any fan that's just trying to have a fun time talking to other fans about the teams they love. It's a complicated industry and even people that know it well and work in it every day don't fully understand it.

A member of the Kings front office staff answered an email of mine last season when I asked about a mundane detail of contract status and included an epilogue that basically said

"None of what I just told you is written down anywhere. It's not an actual rule it's just what everybody agrees is how things are done"

I'm paraphrasing but that's what we're dealing with.

Hell I downloaded the CBA to try and find some stuff out for myself and near as I can tell the ONLY place the CBA makes any distinction between forward and defense is in the "Post Trade Deadline Emergency Recall" section. Other than that... there doesn't seem to be any kind of legal or contractual difference.

What really grinds MY gears (said in best Peter Griffin voice) is when people misrepresent the data (intentionally or not) or represent the data in a way that was not intended.

For example... people that would use individual game corsi scores as evidence that one player out performed another.... NOT how Corsi was designed to be used and not a terribly meaningful application of the metric. So don't do it OR if you are going to do it... DON'T make it sound like you're saying something profound.


OK... enough moralizing out of me.

All of this is just my ego and grumpiness anyway. Feel free to ignore all of it.

I don't listen so I can't comment but I will say that with 32 teams in the league it seems unlikely to me that any one human being could be "well informed" about more than 1 or mayyybe 2.

I work for the Kings, I watch the Kings, I think about the Kings constantly, I host the pregame radio show, I host the teams podcast, I talk to the PR staff, the front office staff, the coaching staff, I attend every home game, every practice, every camp..... ETC ETC ETC


and I'm uncomfortable calling myself "well informed" about the LA Kings.

SO that's the kind of highbar we're working with when you ask me why I get grumpy about stuff.

I'm just a lunatic. What can I tell ya?

I’m kind of intrigued why you are all bent about THG saying 1.5 in cap space…I don’t even recall him mentioning they still had to sign Durzi and Anderson. So, assuming those two guys get signed, how much to you predict they will have left…about 1.5?

 

[All The Kings Men]

I’m kind of intrigued why you are all bent about THG saying 1.5 in cap space…I don’t even recall him mentioning they still had to sign Durzi and Anderson. So, assuming those two guys get signed, how much to you predict they will have left…about 1.5?

It's not really about the $1.5M in cap space specifically

It's about people that create a platform for themselves, present themselves as an authority and then routinely deliver incomplete or sometimes just plain incorrect information with total confidence

.... and to be clear I don't fully understand why I'm all bent out of shape about it either

It's not really about the $1.5M in cap space specifically

It's about people that create a platform for themselves, present themselves as an authority and then routinely deliver incomplete or sometimes just plain incorrect information with total confidence

.... and to be clear I don't fully understand why I'm all bent out of shape about it either

AND it's not just about THG.... it's been bugging me a lot recently and that was just one crystal clear example where I saw it, it bugged me and then I had an opportunity to complain about it and he's the stand in for a bunch of other people

 

[YP44]

Kings and Hawks learned a valuable lesson. Just because you won with them doesn’t mean you will continue to. Cap strapping the team with older players is one way to f*** it up and make the fall from grace immediate.

I doubt the Kings will do this again.

remember the cap was expected to sky rocket with new US TV deal.

 

[All The Kings Men]

remember the cap was expected to sky rocket with new US TV deal.

This is another thing I keep hearing some specific people repeat over and over again with confidence despite the fact that all I keep hearing from the league office and "reputable sources" is that the cap WON'T go up significantly and if it does it'll be somewhat falsely inflated due to union concerns over escrow and blah blah blah it's complicated and boring and I don't get it anyway.

I think some people out there saw the NBA deal (which was worth like $25 Billion) and saw their cap skyrocket and so just started saying "Well the NHL has a new TV deal and it's on ESPN for gosh sake so that means THAT cap will go up" ignoring the fact that the NHL deal is worth like $1 Billion and the NHL doesn't get nearly the ratings that the NBA gets.

The NHL gets something like $400 Million per year while the NBA is clearing something like $2.7 Billion per year.

Sorry to be a buzzkill yet again but this is one of those things where I don't blame the average fan for repeating with confidence what they heard some guy on a podcast say but...

I'm just not sure it's based in anything other than that dude's enthusiasm for sounding like he knows what he's talking about.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I'm just not sure it's based in anything other than that dude's enthusiasm for sounding like he knows what he's talking about.

I'll start believing he knows what he's talking about when he starts questioning why Kopitar and Doughty get paid 10-mil.

 

[All The Kings Men]

I'll start believing he knows what he's talking about when he starts questioning why Kopitar and Doughty get paid 10-mil.

Who are we talking about?

 

[ricardfromage]

The "cap space" is why we are trying to move Iafallo and or Walker. Pfffft!

 

[Statto]

It's called the going rate for 2 time Cup winners hitting free agency. They're moves any team in that situation makes. Only if they wanted to go elsewhere are they not here. Expecting the Kings to be some exception to that is setting yourself up to endlessly complain about the same thing, again, and again, and again, for years on end.

Maybe if they win just the 1 Cup, Kopitar and Doughty get a post-2011 Bergeron type deal, but they got the Kane and Toews kind instead.

He’s also completely ignoring Doughty’s return to form last season, every time it is pointed out it just gets side stepped.