Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[SFKingshomer]

I’m sure Zegras having the amazing ability to lift the puck up on his stick is going to translate well in the playoffs. Whoops, not this year though.

He's going to get Sutered if he doesn't tone it down.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Don’t get the Zegras hate because of the puck lifting thing. You are allowed to score however you want as long as it is legal. The guy is getting points for his team.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Don’t get the Zegras hate because of the puck lifting thing. You are allowed to score however you want as long as it is legal. The guy is getting points for his team.

Agreed, don't care how it gets done, but it gets done, my whole question on Zegras is him being somebody a team can win with, his game right now, doesn't translate to that, but....he's also what 20 years old, he can adjust, look at Yzerman.....he wasn't winning shit until Bowman came around and challenged him to change his game.

 

[kings11]

It's hurt offensive production, not necessarily development.

Although Danault, Kempe, Moore, and Arvidsson are all outproducing their career per game averages for goals and pts this season. Arvidsson is currently at 27g over 82 games this year though, which is his career average per 82.

But Byfield and Kaliyev aren't at 70pts and 30g though, and that's what the people want. We don't want to see the average age of the top 8 scorers be 30. You're either a contender, or dead last letting 20 year olds play 30 unrestricted minutes per night. Throw the kids out there, and let Darwin settle it. A bubble team without the young guys leading the way? You just wasted a year. You just wanted to sell a couple extra tickets to keep your job.

It's hurt offensive production, not necessarily development.

Although Danault, Kempe, Moore, and Arvidsson are all outproducing their career per game averages for goals and pts this season. Arvidsson is currently at 27g over 82 games this year though, which is his career average per 82.

But Byfield and Kaliyev aren't at 70pts and 30g though, and that's what the people want. We don't want to see the average age of the top 8 scorers be 30. You're either a contender, or dead last letting 20 year olds play 30 unrestricted minutes per night. Throw the kids out there, and let Darwin settle it. A bubble team without the young guys leading the way? You just wasted a year. You just wanted to sell a couple extra tickets to keep your job.

I agree, but you can’t really say they didn’t do that..
Byfield is a ball of clay that the Kings have admitted would take time. Why throw him to the wolves when you know he isn’t ready and is in for the long haul right. He isn’t Kopitar, he’s more of Jokinen where patience is going to be a virtue. You throw him out there and absolutely risk ruining a potential 1C.. you make it seems as if the kids getting potential playoff experience isn’t anything if they aren’t leading the team. That’s a short sighted statement and completely neglects the reality of this current team.
The 3rd line has become a very important part of this team and allowing the kids to gel and maybe even experience the POs is going to be huge for their development..
As for the kids that are leading the way, we’ll just take a look at our defense



Kaliyev is another story, he’s gone from looking overwhelmed to pushing his way into the top 6.. no small feat for a kid list though was just a lethal shot with a low compete level. It could be argued that he should have been on the top line for awhile with AI dropped down but it didn’t happen just like he should have been placed on the PP1. Hence I’ve stated that TMac is our new Terry Murray..

 

[Trash Panda]

Don’t get the Zegras hate because of the puck lifting thing. You are allowed to score however you want as long as it is legal. The guy is getting points for his team.

You gotta respect the skill, and obviously the swagger involved in it. Zegras is a hell of a hockey player.

It’s also legal for a Defensemen to take a double minor for an aggressive slash, or make a run after the whistle, whenever he sees that cheeky shit going on.

I know even in the low level AAA I played, someone would go full Jay Beagle on a guy for pulling that shit. Hockey isn’t neutered yet.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The Kings haven't had a rookie put up points like Zegras has since Anze Kopitar in 2006-07. That was 15 years ago. Think Ducks fans thought Kopitar was a one-trick pony/flavor of the month after what he did to Pronger? They'd sound stupid now, wouldn't they?

That's how Kings fans sound right now when they rip into Zegras for being a productive player, because we all know putting up points and scoring 20+ goals as a rookie is so easy to do.

 

[RaymondReddington]

Except, St. Louis has..in the past, with Thomas.

Let me make sure I understand your point before I can accurately respond to it.

You are equating the Blues PP1 with the Kings PP1 in order to make Kaliyev/Thomas an apples to apples comparison?

 

[kilowatt]

The Kings haven't had a rookie put up points like Zegras has since Anze Kopitar in 2006-07. That was 15 years ago. Think Ducks fans thought Kopitar was a one-trick pony/flavor of the month after what he did to Pronger? They'd sound stupid now, wouldn't they?

That's how Kings fans sound right now when they rip into Zegras for being a productive player, because we all know putting up points and scoring 20+ goals as a rookie is so easy to do.

Agreed. His non-highlight reel goals in Anaheim would be highlight reel goals here. Take away the lacrosse goals and he's still the most electric rookie in the league this season. Whether he wins rookie of the year over Seider or Raymond, I don't know. If the hate he gets isn't jealousy, I'm not sure what it is. Would love to have him on this team.

 

[NikF]

When you take a "high character" pick over a "high-end skills" pick with your top 5 selection, it almost never works out. Scouts are particularly bad at this because they (correctly otherwise) value intangibles and character very highly. I just don't think it usually works out that well with top 5 or even top 10 picks.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Let me make sure I understand your point before I can accurately respond to it.

You are equating the Blues PP1 with the Kings PP1 in order to make Kaliyev/Thomas an apples to apples comparison?

Nope, I am using your comment of "There is not a team in the NHL that would use this talent and production the way the Kings have this year."

To tell you, you are wrong. St. Louis did this with Thomas 4 years ago.....

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Agreed. His non-highlight reel goals in Anaheim would be highlight reel goals here. Take away the lacrosse goals and he's still the most electric rookie in the league this season. Whether he wins rookie of the year over Seider or Raymond, I don't know. If the hate he gets isn't jealousy, I'm not sure what it is. Would love to have him on this team.

Oh, it most definitely is jealousy. Funny thing about Zegras that these fans fail to acknowledge is that he is quite a feisty and competitive player, he's not all flash as the uninformed claim him to be. They probably form those opinions based on the fact that they've only seen his highlights and don't actually watch him play.

Zegras actually has 46 PIMs on the season, which would be the third highest PIM total on the Kings. He's also drawn 25 penalties, which would tie him with Adrian Kempe for most on the team.

The Kings would be a significantly better team (especially on the PP), if they had a player like him in the lineup. But I guess Alex Turcotte brings so many intangibles to the team, like his ability to spend time on the injured reserve list.

 

[SFKingshomer]

When you take a "high character" pick over a "high-end skills" pick with your top 5 selection, it almost never works out. Scouts are particularly bad at this because they (correctly otherwise) value intangibles and character very highly. I just don't think it usually works out that well with top 5 or even top 10 picks.

Not 1 single scouting service I've come across labeled Turcotte as only a "high character" pick. A lot loved his skills and if you value the players skills the same then you go with character 10/10. This was not an off the board pick as some had him as high as #3. Injuries and poor development decisions have held him back.


He’s a highly competitive, two-way centre with elite vision and playmaking ability, EPrinkside.com 2019
His playmaking ability and vision both compliment his ability to read the ice, where he’s capable of making high-end passes at full speed, Hockeyprospect.com 2019
An exciting player to watch, he boasts nice hands and can beat opponents one-on-one with creative stick work., Future Considerations 2019
He shows advanced game awareness in all three zones and can be utilized in all manner of game situations, McKeen's Hockey 2019
exciting to watch … plays at high speed and tempo … strong 200-foot game … constantly competing … strength to his stride … plays confident, ISS Hockey 2017

 

[cyclones22]

Yeah, this idea that Turcotte is just a high character grinder is nuts. Watch his Reign highlights. He makes some very high end reads and passes on top of being a very good skater and stick-handler. His negatives have always been his size and a weak shot. But even a weak shot can be improved upon, look at Danault case in point. Now, his size and proclivity to injury, not so much. But the kid has skills and desire, no doubt.

 

[kilowatt]

This might be a crazy thought, but I wonder what it would take to get Kane from the Blackhawks? We could swallow his entire salary next season if we had to, and we have the prospects to make it work. Maybe one of Kupari, Vilardi, or Turcotte goes the other way?

Kempe - Kopitar - Kane
Moore - Danault - Arvidsson
Kupari - Byfield - Kaliyev
Iafallo - Lizotte - Lemieux

 

[kilowatt]

Not 1 single scouting service I've come across labeled Turcotte as only a "high character" pick. A lot loved his skills and if you value the players skills the same then you go with character 10/10. This was not an off the board pick as some had him as high as #3. Injuries and poor development decisions have held him back.


He’s a highly competitive, two-way centre with elite vision and playmaking ability, EPrinkside.com 2019
His playmaking ability and vision both compliment his ability to read the ice, where he’s capable of making high-end passes at full speed, Hockeyprospect.com 2019
An exciting player to watch, he boasts nice hands and can beat opponents one-on-one with creative stick work., Future Considerations 2019
He shows advanced game awareness in all three zones and can be utilized in all manner of game situations, McKeen's Hockey 2019
exciting to watch … plays at high speed and tempo … strong 200-foot game … constantly competing … strength to his stride … plays confident, ISS Hockey 2017

Turcotte is a high-skill player. If Turcotte could ever get healthy, I think putting him with Kaliyev would be a huge boost for both players. They've played a lot of hockey together over the years. The only thing holding him back right now is injuries.

 

[NikF]

Not 1 single scouting service I've come across labeled Turcotte as only a "high character" pick. A lot loved his skills and if you value the players skills the same then you go with character 10/10. This was not an off the board pick as some had him as high as #3. Injuries and poor development decisions have held him back.


He’s a highly competitive, two-way centre with elite vision and playmaking ability, EPrinkside.com 2019
His playmaking ability and vision both compliment his ability to read the ice, where he’s capable of making high-end passes at full speed, Hockeyprospect.com 2019
An exciting player to watch, he boasts nice hands and can beat opponents one-on-one with creative stick work., Future Considerations 2019
He shows advanced game awareness in all three zones and can be utilized in all manner of game situations, McKeen's Hockey 2019
exciting to watch … plays at high speed and tempo … strong 200-foot game … constantly competing … strength to his stride … plays confident, ISS Hockey 2017

If you valued Zegras skill level as equal to Turcotte, you probably made a mistake in evaluation. Top 5 you usually have to roll the dice on skill and Im saying this as someone who loves Turcotte

 

[Telos]

Yeah, I think people are shorting Turcotte a little bit here because, obviously, he hasn't really had his shot in the NHL yet, but he is definitely a high-skill player. He is fast, has hands, and excellent vision, and then also has intangibles like leadership and character, but he is definitely not a character grinder. He is a guy, like Byfield, who will have to find his way as his old tricks won't work and will probably do a bit better once he physically matures more against tougher/stronger NHL competition. Kempe had wheels but didn't have the strength to power around NHL defenders early in his career like he could now, etc.

People are just comparing him to Zegras who has shown a ton of skill being drafted after, but he does have some character tiffs here and there and everything isn't perfect in Shangri-La (though those are probably problems we would take on at this point).

Turcotte will probably not match up to the production or skill that Zegras has shown, but the jury is still out on the level of player he will become. He still projects as a top 6 player to this day and is still developing and has a bit of time on his side. Vilardi is the one who is running out of rope.

 

[NikF]

Just saying. Im one of biggest Turcotte fanboys because I love his game, but in top 10 and especially top 5 of the draft erring towards elite skill usually pays better dividends. The right pick was Seider anyways.

 

[cyclones22]

Yeah, I think people are shorting Turcotte a little bit here because, obviously, he hasn't really had his shot in the NHL yet, but he is definitely a high-skill player. He is fast, has hands, and excellent vision, and then also has intangibles like leadership and character, but he is definitely not a character grinder. He is a guy, like Byfield, who will have to find his way as his old tricks won't work and will probably do a bit better once he physically matures more against tougher/stronger NHL competition. Kempe had wheels but didn't have the strength to power around NHL defenders early in his career like he could now, etc.

People are just comparing him to Zegras who has shown a ton of skill being drafted after, but he does have some character tiffs here and there and everything isn't perfect in Shangri-La (though those are probably problems we would take on at this point).

Turcotte will probably not match up to the production or skill that Zegras has shown, but the jury is still out on the level of player he will become. He still projects as a top 6 player to this day and is still developing and has a bit of time on his side. Vilardi is the one who is running out of rope.

Turcotte was having a good season in Ontario prior to the cheapshot injury. Madden as well for what it's worth. Hell, Madden lost most of his rookie AHL season from a cheapshot. Both he and Turcotte are small-ish, high skill players who have been derailed as of late. Anyway, Turcotte was playing lower in the lineup since Tynan was brought on and he dominated PP time along w/Frk.

Turcotte had 18 points in 26 games, while shooting 17% and at the time, was leading the team with a +18. He was playing well. Now, some of us were also bitching about the fact that the Reign line-up is littered with guys who normally are on NHL rosters thus crowding the prospects and taking ice time from, but the coaching staff also had to navigate the Wroblewski mystery too. Turcotte looked like (and the numbers backed it up) a play driver at the NHL level in his small call-up even though he didn't score. He was creating chances and was in position to score.

This is all just to say that it's too early to write off Turcotte, regardless of what Zegras is doing. 8 players went before he did, not just Turcotte. Imagine if the Kings had drafted Byram who has his own share of injuries or ended up with Kakko or Dach who are still developing but aren't excelling yet. Seider discussion is a non-starter. I want to see receipts of people prior to the draft saying the Kings should draft him or anyone in the top 10 range.

 

[kilowatt]

Just saying. Im one of biggest Turcotte fanboys because I love his game, but in top 10 and especially top 5 of the draft erring towards elite skill usually pays better dividends. The right pick was Seider anyways.

That's pretty easy to say in retrospect, but Seider wasn't considered a high-skill defenseman, so your point is moot. But if we want to play this game, why not just cherry pick the greatest players of the last 15 years and suggest that we screwed up every single year?

 

[kilowatt]

Turcotte was having a good season in Ontario prior to the cheapshot injury. Madden as well for what it's worth. Hell, Madden lost most of his rookie AHL season from a cheapshot. Both he and Turcotte are small-ish, high skill players who have been derailed as of late. Anyway, Turcotte was playing lower in the lineup since Tynan was brought on and he dominated PP time along w/Frk.

Turcotte had 18 points in 26 games, while shooting 17% and at the time, was leading the team with a +18. He was playing well. Now, some of us were also bitching about the fact that the Reign line-up is littered with guys who normally are on NHL rosters thus crowding the prospects and taking ice time from, but the coaching staff also had to navigate the Wroblewski mystery too. Turcotte looked like (and the numbers backed it up) a play driver at the NHL level in his small call-up even though he didn't score. He was creating chances and was in position to score.

This is all just to say that it's too early to write off Turcotte, regardless of what Zegras is doing. 8 players went before he did, not just Turcotte. Imagine if the Kings had drafted Byram who has his own share of injuries or ended up with Kakko or Dach who are still developing but aren't excelling yet. Seider discussion is a non-starter. I want to see receipts of people prior to the draft saying the Kings should draft him or anyone in the top 10 range.

Exactly. Even Wings fans were shocked at the Seider pick and Yzerman even tried to trade down but couldn't. Lots of Wings fans were really upset at the pick. It was the shock of the draft. I was shocked that Turcotte fell to 5, I thought the Blackhawks would take him at 3.

I'm still excited at Turcotte playing for the Kings next season. I think he's a guy that will perform better in the NHL than in the AHL.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Turcotte was having a good season in Ontario prior to the cheapshot injury. Madden as well for what it's worth. Hell, Madden lost most of his rookie AHL season from a cheapshot. Both he and Turcotte are small-ish, high skill players who have been derailed as of late. Anyway, Turcotte was playing lower in the lineup since Tynan was brought on and he dominated PP time along w/Frk.

Turcotte had 18 points in 26 games, while shooting 17% and at the time, was leading the team with a +18. He was playing well. Now, some of us were also bitching about the fact that the Reign line-up is littered with guys who normally are on NHL rosters thus crowding the prospects and taking ice time from, but the coaching staff also had to navigate the Wroblewski mystery too. Turcotte looked like (and the numbers backed it up) a play driver at the NHL level in his small call-up even though he didn't score. He was creating chances and was in position to score.

This is all just to say that it's too early to write off Turcotte, regardless of what Zegras is doing. 8 players went before he did, not just Turcotte. Imagine if the Kings had drafted Byram who has his own share of injuries or ended up with Kakko or Dach who are still developing but aren't excelling yet. Seider discussion is a non-starter. I want to see receipts of people prior to the draft saying the Kings should draft him or anyone in the top 10 range.

Agreed; all good points.

And Turcotte was the #1 center for US WJC Gold Medal Team...centering Zegras and Kaliyev.
Zegras doubled Turcotte in points, but he also excelled because of Turcotte's play.
They do not win Gold without either one of them.

Turcotte was a beast in the final minutes of the Gold Medal game - making key plays all over the ice.
Consider Caufield was a total non-factor and 10 out of 10 scouts that watched the tournament would take Turcotte over Caufield. Maybe 16 months later, now, some would take Caufield...but Turcotte has suffered at the hands of injuries. I think he will be ready to make the Kings next year....if not by opening night, soon after.
If he's used as a trade chip in a package this offseason, so be it, but I doubt that his value will be as good as it may be in a year from now. I'd prefer to keep him and reap the rewards of what I think he will become.
Yet, the Kings will seemingly have to deal some prospects to upgrade the team this offseason.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

This is all just to say that it's too early to write off Turcotte, regardless of what Zegras is doing. 8 players went before he did, not just Turcotte. Imagine if the Kings had drafted Byram who has his own share of injuries or ended up with Kakko or Dach who are still developing but aren't excelling yet. Seider discussion is a non-starter. I want to see receipts of people prior to the draft saying the Kings should draft him or anyone in the top 10 range.

I was the leader of the Zegras bandwagon as someone who should've been taken at #5 before the 2019 draft.

Prospect Info: - 2019 Draft Discussion: LA Kings pick 5th, 22nd overall

Moritz Seider article: 2019 NHL Draft Preview – Moritz Seider, German Defenseman

hfboards.mandatory.com

Prospect Info: - 2019 Draft Discussion: LA Kings pick 5th, 22nd overall

Kings pawn mentioned it in the other thread, but I agree with him here. If the kings get Byram I'm almost certain they'll trade up from the 22nd pick to try and get Kaliyev. I don't think we can walk away from the first round without getting an elite forward.

hfboards.mandatory.com

I guess I overrated his skill.

And yes, there were some mentions of Seider in that 2019 draft discussion thread.

 

[NikF]

That's pretty easy to say in retrospect, but Seider wasn't considered a high-skill defenseman, so your point is moot. But if we want to play this game, why not just cherry pick the greatest players of the last 15 years and suggest that we screwed up every single year?

I was shilling Seider as an option for Kings in his draft year. We had him as a top 10 overall pick pre-draft for a while when everyone was shocked Detroit took him at 6.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I agree, but you can’t really say they didn’t do that..
Byfield is a ball of clay that the Kings have admitted would take time. Why throw him to the wolves when you know he isn’t ready and is in for the long haul right. He isn’t Kopitar, he’s more of Jokinen where patience is going to be a virtue. You throw him out there and absolutely risk ruining a potential 1C.. you make it seems as if the kids getting potential playoff experience isn’t anything if they aren’t leading the team. That’s a short sighted statement and completely neglects the reality of this current team.
The 3rd line has become a very important part of this team and allowing the kids to gel and maybe even experience the POs is going to be huge for their development..
As for the kids that are leading the way, we’ll just take a look at our defense



Kaliyev is another story, he’s gone from looking overwhelmed to pushing his way into the top 6.. no small feat for a kid list though was just a lethal shot with a low compete level. It could be argued that he should have been on the top line for awhile with AI dropped down but it didn’t happen just like he should have been placed on the PP1. Hence I’ve stated that TMac is our new Terry Murray..

My point was, there are people who don't think the Kings should even be where they are now, because of how they're doing it, because the young guys won't be able to lead the team in 5 years, as they will not have learned how to lead the team today.

I think every guy on the team, even the young guys playing 10min a night, would rather make the playoffs in a few weeks than not get there.

The Kings haven't had a rookie put up points like Zegras has since Anze Kopitar in 2006-07. That was 15 years ago. Think Ducks fans thought Kopitar was a one-trick pony/flavor of the month after what he did to Pronger? They'd sound stupid now, wouldn't they?

That's how Kings fans sound right now when they rip into Zegras for being a productive player, because we all know putting up points and scoring 20+ goals as a rookie is so easy to do.

A few years after that great goal against Pronger, the Kings were a better team than the one Kopitar was on when he undressed Pronger, but Kopitar was no longer scoring those kinds of goals, and I'm going to guess we started criticizing him for that. And I'm sure this was before we knew he natutally hibernated during the winter months.