Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[kilowatt]

Patrick Kane has three cups and 132 points in 136 playoff games. Zegras is an elite performer, especially in big games. You don't score 18 points in 7 games at the WJC by accident. He's a big game player. We clearly made a mistake, it happens.

As for Seider, even Wings fans were shocked.

 

[crassbonanza]

They all play much better defensively, Zegras is a tire fire on defense.....I'm not sure if second highest producing skater on the DUCKS is a ringing endorsement.....you tell me he's 2nd on Calgary, Edmonton, Tampa, Boston, shit even Carolina....ok maybe....

The problem with advance stats, is you can use them to tell yourself whatever you want.....

So, we are just going to use your own eye test over anything tangible? If we are just using that, how many Ducks games have you watched this season?

As for production, that is an absolute ridiculous argument. You would only be impressed if a 20 year old is the 2nd leading scorer on one of the contenders? Or on a team with McDavid and Draisaitl? If you are unimpressed with his scoring I can only imagine what you think about our prospects.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Wish the Kings would give their kids free reign to make mistakes like Zegras and Stutzle have been given from day 1.

I think if they didn't believe they could make the playoffs, they would have been given that......Keep in mind, ANA and OTT had ZERO playoff hopes....beyond nothing, so they have the freedom of doing that.....doing it with a team who has hopes of the Playoffs whatever you might feel of that, is a much harder sell in pro sports.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Wish the Kings would give their kids free reign to make mistakes like Zegras and Stutzle have been given from day 1.

The last time they did that, for a young forward was 2017-18 for Kempe, givng him 2C every shift, with Toffoli and Pearson and he succeeded, by most measures. Of course, this only happened, after Carter became injured.

This was the last time a young forward got quality ice in the top 6. He was even +11 and was never a liability.

[TABLE=collapse]
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[TD]81[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]49[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
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If Carter does not get injuured? Adrian probably plays 3rd line and ends up with 6 goals and 12 assists and
stagnates for even longer.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Patrick Kane has three cups and 132 points in 136 playoff games. Zegras is an elite performer, especially in big games. You don't score 18 points in 7 games at the WJC by accident. He's a big game player. We clearly made a mistake, it happens.

As for Seider, even Wings fans were shocked.

So then....that would mean Jesse Puljivarri is a big game player, right?

 

[SFKingshomer]

I see McTavish as a more crucial piece to Anaheim's future. Zegras needs wingers that allow him space to use his creativity. That's why Turcotte did all the tough work at WJ and Zegras played wing because the coach couldn't trust him to play a defensive role.

 

[BigKing]

As a fan, absolutely, kid puts butts in the seat no doubt..... unless he grows his game however, that's all he is going to do.

I just think you can teach a youngster to play defense (Kopitar was not Mr. Selke right off the bat either) but you can't teach that natural offensive talent.

He's still a kid. Up to him to decide if he wants to do what it takes to be a 200-foot player. That's the Ducks "problem": the Kings problem with 5OA from that same draft is whether or not he is going to play in the NHL or can even stay healthy enough to play in the AHL.

 

[SFKingshomer]

I just think you can teach a youngster to play defense (Kopitar was not Mr. Selke right off the bat either) but you can't teach that natural offensive talent.

He's still a kid. Up to him to decide if he wants to do what it takes to be a 200-foot player. That's the Ducks "problem": the Kings problem with 5OA from that same draft is whether or not he is going to play in the NHL or can even stay healthy enough to play in the AHL.

But it's not always the player or a "bad pick". Bad fit, bad deployment, and development, sure? It's very possible we would be having the same conversation if the players switched jerseys...

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I just think you can teach a youngster to play defense (Kopitar was not Mr. Selke right off the bat either) but you can't teach that natural offensive talent.

He's still a kid. Up to him to decide if he wants to do what it takes to be a 200-foot player. That's the Ducks "problem": the Kings problem with 5OA from that same draft is whether or not he is going to play in the NHL or can even stay healthy enough to play in the AHL.

Agreed, like I said above kid definitely has room to grow....as far as offensive talent vs even defensive talent, I think it comes down to reads more than anything, on either side of the puck, the more you make the right read, the more space/time you create to be creative, the assist he had the other night was unreal, had to watch it 3 times, (was watching on my phone) to figure out what he did, and I didn't remember his number...

Not sure why people are getting all pissy because I said teams don't win with that type of player, they don't, they have to turn their game around....

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

But it's not always the player or a "bad pick". Bad fit, bad deployment, and development, sure? It's very possible we would be having the same conversation if the players switched jerseys...

Agreed, because again, different teams, LAs goal was making the playoffs, ANA wasn't, LA wasn't going to let any player, rookie or not, go willy nilly and say screw the defensive side......

 

[SFKingshomer]

Agreed, because again, different teams, LAs goal was making the playoffs, ANA wasn't, LA wasn't going to let any player, rookie or not, go willy nilly and say screw the defensive side......

They have killed skill players for years. I personally think they should quit drafting forwards until they can figure it out...

 

[YAYSAY]

Gonna suck if trying to make the playoff this season backfires, especially since our playoff odds are dropping. A big regression next season could be likely unless something big happens. The vets will be even older and less effective, and the kids haven't really taken a big step forward, whether that's because of unfair usage and poor development or just not being good enough. I feel like next season will be the season we should have had this this season.

 

[kilowatt]

It's just so wild that all four of Vilardi, Turcotte, Kaliyev, and Byfield were elite scorers in juniors and it just has not translated at all.

 

[crassbonanza]

Wish the Kings would give their kids free reign to make mistakes like Zegras and Stutzle have been given from day 1.

I don't know if the Kings prospects are given free reign to make mistakes or not, but they are certainly making them as much or more often than either Stutzle or Zegras.

Stutzle has a positive CF% and SF% Rel, while having a -0.62 GF% Rel. Zegras has a positive CF% Rel and SF% Rel, while having a +4.20 GF% Rel.

Kupari has a negative CF% and SF% Rel, while having a -3.68 GF% Rel. Byfield has a negative CF% and SF% Rel, while having a -2.95 GF% Rel.

Even if you want to drop the Rel numbers, Zegras is still outpacing any of our prospects by nearly every advanced stat, while at the same time producing twice as much as Vilardi, Byfield and Kupari combined. Here is a snapshot comparing the raw numbers between Byfield and Zegras.

 

[SFKingshomer]

It's just so wild that all four of Vilardi, Turcotte, Kaliyev, and Byfield were elite scorers in juniors and it just has not translated at all.

You have to be a braindead moron to watch tape on Kaliyev or in practice and not put his shot on the top PP. He should be firing at will...

 

[SFKingshomer]

I don't know if the Kings are given free reign to make mistakes or not, but they are certainly making them as much or more often than either Stutzle or Zegras.

Stutzle has a positive CF% and SF% Rel, while having a -0.62 GF% Rel. Zegras has a positive CF% Rel and SF% Rel, while having a +4.20 GF% Rel.

Kupari has a negative CF% and SF% Rel, while having a -3.68 GF% Rel. Byfield has a negative CF% and SF% Rel, while having a -2.95 GF% Rel.

Even if you want to drop the Rel numbers, Zegras is still outpacing any of our prospects by nearly every advanced stat, while at the same time producing twice as much as Vilardi, Byfield and Kupari combined. Here is a snapshot comparing the raw numbers between Byfield and Zegras. View attachment 529698

When have any of the Kings kids been put in a position to succeed? Do you really expect top prospects to produce playing 10 minutes with scrubs? Not sure why they continue to put skilled players on the 3rd and 4th line with no PP time and expect them to produce.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

They have killed skill players for years. I personally think they should quit drafting forwards until they can figure it out...

Who have they killed...for years? Toffoli? Kempe? who? Who have they drafted with that much talent that they then killled?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Wish the Kings would give their kids free reign to make mistakes like Zegras and Stutzle have been given from day 1.

I don't know if the Kings prospects are given free reign to make mistakes or not, but they are certainly making them as much or more often than either Stutzle or Zegras.

Stutzle has a positive CF% and SF% Rel, while having a -0.62 GF% Rel. Zegras has a positive CF% Rel and SF% Rel, while having a +4.20 GF% Rel.

Kupari has a negative CF% and SF% Rel, while having a -3.68 GF% Rel. Byfield has a negative CF% and SF% Rel, while having a -2.95 GF% Rel.

Even if you want to drop the Rel numbers, Zegras is still outpacing any of our prospects by nearly every advanced stat, while at the same time producing twice as much as Vilardi, Byfield and Kupari combined. Here is a snapshot comparing the raw numbers between Byfield and Zegras. View attachment 529698

Now that you've gone this far for several posts, are you at least going to acknowledge that Zegras has almost 75% ozone starts while the next Ducks' line barely has 50%? That TZ leads the Ducks in PP time and per game, including 30% more than the next forward? That he literally has 0 time PKing?

I WISH TM would do the same for our prospects, but you're giving a guy props for raw unmitigated production while completely ignoring that he's deployed in some of the softest minutes in the league. That's fine in and of itself, but if you're going to compare to our prospects who are relatively buried and getting literally NO PP time, at least say so. ESPECIALLY since you're using team relative stats.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Now that you've gone this far for several posts, are you at least going to acknowledge that Zegras has almost 75% ozone starts while the next Ducks' line barely has 50%? That TZ leads the Ducks in PP time and per game, including 30% more than the next forward? That he literally has 0 time PKing?

I WISH TM would do the same for our prospects, but you're giving a guy props for raw unmitigated production while completely ignoring that he's deployed in some of the softest minutes in the league. That's fine in and of itself, but if you're going to compare to our prospects who are relatively buried and getting literally NO PP time, at least say so. ESPECIALLY since you're using team relative stats.

Doesn't matter, he can spin nicely lol,

Again, Zegras has a helluva offensive game, but if this is all it is, it won't translate into wins, everyone that everyone has brought up, Kane, Kucherov, Ovechkin etc, established a two way game before they won.

 

[crassbonanza]

Now that you've gone this far for several posts, are you at least going to acknowledge that Zegras has almost 75% ozone starts while the next Ducks' line barely has 50%? That TZ leads the Ducks in PP time and per game, including 30% more than the next forward? That he literally has 0 time PKing?

I WISH TM would do the same for our prospects, but you're giving a guy props for raw unmitigated production while completely ignoring that he's deployed in some of the softest minutes in the league. That's fine in and of itself, but if you're going to compare to our prospects who are relatively buried and getting literally NO PP time, at least say so. ESPECIALLY since you're using team relative stats.

I was only looking at 5v5 stats for the most part, so didn't include anything regarding pk or pp. To be honest, I was more pointing out that people just casually shitting on Zegras and Stutzle for being a tire fire defensively should actually look into it more. As for your zone start comment, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Byfield has a 65% ozone start percentage which leads the Kings centers. I do wish our prospects got more minutes to develop and better opportunies and I have argued that all season. I am just saying maybe we should hold back on ripping other teams prospects.

 

[shuchukfan]

I bet if a player on the Kings attempted to do The Michigan, they'd hit the goalie in the head with their stick and get a 5-minute major.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Doesn't matter, he can spin nicely lol,

Again, Zegras has a helluva offensive game, but if this is all it is, it won't translate into wins, everyone that everyone has brought up, Kane, Kucherov, Ovechkin etc, established a two way game before they won.

TZ getting prime offensive time and all the PP time he can handle.

Meanwhile, our top PP goal scorer is Kaliyev and he's benched for 'other reasons' and consistently held off the PP altogether, not to mention any combination of Byfield/Vilardi/etc

If anyone EVER wants these guys to develop their offensive touches...they need offensive touches and big minutes. No elite forwards hone their skills at the bottom of the lineup for 12 min a game just a year after playing 20+ as 'the guy' on their junior teams.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I bet if a player on the Kings attempted to do The Michigan, they'd hit the goalie in the head with their stick and get a 5-minute major.

Just watch, Brown has been practicing this.....he's gonna nail it in OT on the last game, to put the Kings in the playoffs......

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

TZ getting prime offensive time and all the PP time he can handle.

Meanwhile, our top PP goal scorer is Kaliyev and he's benched for 'other reasons' and consistently held off the PP altogether, not to mention any combination of Byfield/Vilardi/etc

If anyone EVER wants these guys to develop their offensive touches...they need offensive touches and big minutes. No elite forwards hone their skills at the bottom of the lineup for 12 min a game just a year after playing 20+ as 'the guy' on their junior teams.

I would argue a few have, Robert Thomas being one of them

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I was only looking at 5v5 stats for the most part, so didn't include anything regarding pk or pp. To be honest, I was more pointing out that people just casually shitting on Zegras and Stutzle for being a tire fire defensively should actually look into it more. As for your zone start comment, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Byfield has a 65% ozone start percentage which leads the Kings centers. I do wish our prospects got more minutes to develop and better opportunies and I have argued that all season. I am just saying maybe we should hold back on ripping other teams prospects.

Sure, he does. There's a big difference there, though. TZ is getting 75% ozone starts while the Ducks' regular center taking the most beating is Lundestrom...at 35%. Considering he's getting an avg of 20 min a game for the last 5 games,that's a team force feeding a guy literally all the offensive minutes between that and PP.

W the Kings, Byfield is getting 63%, while Kopitar is getting 47%. TOf course Byfield has also averaged under 12 minutes a game, so you can't say he's eating all the O time, and he's getting ZERO PP time.

Point is only if we're here to go OMG LOOK HOW GOOD HE IS should point out he doesn't even have to see the neutral zone never mind the D zone.