Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[lumbergh]

What about his game do you think does not translate to winning hockey? He is the second highest producing skater on the Ducks with a ES P/60 of 2.3. He has the best CF% on the team and the third best SF% on the team. He does have a negative GF% Rel of -3.8, but that is better than Kupari, Kempe, Byfield and Vilardi, so I assume if you are using that as a metric you also feel like those players are not conducive to winning hockey.

I'm sure GBH said the same thing about Patrick Kane 12 years ago.

 

[Herby]

What about his game do you think does not translate to winning hockey? He is the second highest producing skater on the Ducks with a ES P/60 of 2.3. He has the best CF% on the team and the third best SF% on the team. He does have a negative GF% Rel of -3.8, but that is better than Kupari, Kempe, Byfield and Vilardi, so I assume if you are using that as a metric you also feel like those players are not conducive to winning hockey.

Some fans believe you have to play like Adam Deadmarsh and Mike Richards to be worth a damn as a player in the post season.

 

[BigKing]

This board would have the biggest hard-on for Zegras if he was a King. There's been gushing over Byfield *almost* scoring a similar goal to Kopitar's first around Pronger while Zegras is making alley-oop passes from behind the net.

It's easy to say that a flashy guy won't ever win anything because you are right until it actually happens. Bottom line right now is that this guy is producing and--wins or not--is a very exciting player. The goal is to win games but this is also entertainment. As a STH'er, it would be awesome to watch a guy that could make you jump out of your seat at anytime.

 

[YP44]

This board would have the biggest hard-on for Zegras if he was a King. There's been gushing over Byfield *almost* scoring a similar goal to Kopitar's first around Pronger while Zegras is making alley-oop passes from behind the net.

It's easy to say that a flashy guy won't ever win anything because you are right until it actually happens. Bottom line right now is that this guy is producing and--wins or not--is a very exciting player. The goal is to win games but this is also entertainment. As a STH'er, it would be awesome to watch a guy that could make you jump out of your seat at anytime.

Zegras is so entertaining. Hate that he is a duck but what are you going to do.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Zegras (40) and Stutzle (23) have contributed significantly more at ES than Byfield (7). I think even if neither had played a second on the PP they would have given our invisible third line enough offensive production where we would have atleast been a lock to make the playoffs. The Kings have played the most 1 goal games in the league, a few extra goals here or there is worth a few big points in the standings right now, to me making or missing the playoffs is more than a lick of difference.

Lets see how QB looks next year before we really start to heavily question the evaluation, with 2019 and 2017 though, it's tough to not be critical of our scouts who have had a history of poorly evaluating scoring forwards for the selections we made. I am hoping if anything the bringing in of Bergivon is to help the Kings evaluate younger forwards maybe a bit better than our guys have done. Look at who Montreal got in 2017 and 2019 vs who the Kings got, and with later picks.

I don't see that as possible under the lockdown they put the forwards through. They might both be in the AHL because offensive creativity is not allowed unless you play both ends. The picks were the right ones, the development and deployment has been horse shit. It's not always the player as much as the situation they're put in. They would destroy Zegras and Stutzle by turning them into checkers.

 

[cyclones22]

What about his game do you think does not translate to winning hockey? He is the second highest producing skater on the Ducks with a ES P/60 of 2.3. He has the best CF% on the team and the third best SF% on the team. He does have a negative GF% Rel of -3.8, but that is better than Kupari, Kempe, Byfield and Vilardi, so I assume if you are using that as a metric you also feel like those players are not conducive to winning hockey.

I think he's performing well as a rookie and he or Turcotte were my choices at #5. That being said, he and Sonny Milano are the two highest Corsi rated players on the Ducks, but they better be with a ridiculous 73% and 72% offensive zone starts at even strength, which also leads the team. How you can get that many o-zone starts and be -22 is quite an achievement. But you know what? I'm jealous that the Ducks are doing everything in their power to allow both he and Drysdale to f up in 18+ minutes a game. Those guys are there to bring offense and that's the role they should be given. Same thing for Stutzle and Raymond as mentioned earlier. Allow mistakes from rookies and don't bench them at the first time they commit one.

 

[Herby]

This board would have the biggest hard-on for Zegras if he was a King. There's been gushing over Byfield *almost* scoring a similar goal to Kopitar's first around Pronger while Zegras is making alley-oop passes from behind the net.

It's easy to say that a flashy guy won't ever win anything because you are right until it actually happens. Bottom line right now is that this guy is producing and--wins or not--is a very exciting player. The goal is to win games but this is also entertainment. As a STH'er, it would be awesome to watch a guy that could make you jump out of your seat at anytime.

I often wonder why this board despises certain types of players so much. Obviously those being skilled offensive players that would be considered "soft". Even guys the Kings have had issues with like Tkachuk are respected and admired. And I think you kind of brought up the reason by mentioning Kopitar, and its because it's just been so long since we had a player who made you jump out of your seat when he had the puck. Kopitar kind of fit the bill with the skilled part, but Kopi was a unicorn, he was a big skilled, two-way center, he brought it all.

The last time we had a player that was like a Zegras, Gaudreau, Caufield type was Palffy who last played for the Kings in 2004. It's hard to remember having a player like that. We've had a great center in Kopi, a great D in Doughty and a great goaltender in Quick. The two things we have never really had the last decade was an elite offensive defenseman and an elite high skilled scoring forward.

I don't see that as possible under the lockdown they put the forwards through. They might both be in the AHL because offensive creativity is not allowed unless you play both ends. The picks were the right ones, the development and deployment has been horse shit.

No way Zegras and Stutzle have been in the AHL. Byfield has been up the whole time he has been healthy, Kupari is going to get 60 games and Vilardi got 30. Even Turcotte got 8.

As far as the picks being the right ones, based on what, the rankings? If that is the case there is no such thing as a bad pick ever, Aki Berg and Derek Forbort were picked about where they were ranked, so was Jeff Tambellini. I mean that is fine to think that, but by that criteria there is no such thing as a good or bad draft as long as teams pick guys where they are ranked.

You live in that part of the country, did you ever watch Turcotte play in college, did he really strike you as a worthy top 5 pick?

 

[Faterson]

Have you watched the games? Peterson is not even average. He doesn’t help anyone

You need to ask Moneypuck.com and their evaluation of "expected" goals against. Based on that questionable metric, Petersen is doing OK (not great, just OK), and Quick excels.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Someone has to explain Zegras to me.....I get, flashy new toy, and he definitely has individual skill up the ass, and maybe it's just me, but he's not someone you are winning a playoff round with....

I wouldnt go that far, but he's got a LOT more learning as a player to do than this forum seems to think. The guy is more worthless off the puck than Durzi but has the mouth of Doughty.

That said he's clearly capable of it.

 

[Nasti]

Durzi was on the ice for three even strength goals against Minnesota, continuing a trend of dismal ES results. He just cannot play NHL level defense. He couldn't play AHL defense either.

The team will be better without him. It sucks saying that, because there are so many admirable, rare qualities there.

Not unlike Jack Johnson. Solid teammate but his defense was hurting the team more than his intangibles were helping.

 

[SFKingshomer]

I often wonder why this board despises certain types of players so much. Obviously those being skilled offensive players that would be considered "soft". Even guys the Kings have had issues with like Tkachuk are respected and admired. And I think you kind of brought up the reason by mentioning Kopitar, and its because it's just been so long since we had a player who made you jump out of your seat when he had the puck. Kopitar kind of fit the bill with the skilled part, but Kopi was a unicorn, he was a big skilled, two-way center, he brought it all.

The last time we had a player that was like a Zegras, Gaudreau, Caufield type was Palffy who last played for the Kings in 2004. It's hard to remember having a player like that. We've had a great center in Kopi, a great D in Doughty and a great goaltender in Quick. The two things we have never really had the last decade was an elite offensive defenseman and an elite high skilled scoring forward.



No way Zegras and Stutzle have been in the AHL. Byfield has been up the whole time he has been healthy, Kupari is going to get 60 games and Vilardi got 30. Even Turcotte got 8.

As far as the picks being the right ones, based on what, the rankings? If that is the case there is no such thing as a bad pick ever, Aki Berg and Derek Forbort were picked about where they were ranked, so was Jeff Tambellini. I mean that is fine to think that, but by that criteria there is no such thing as a good or bad draft as long as teams pick guys where they are ranked.

You live in that part of the country, did you ever watch Turcotte play in college, did he really strike you as a worthy top 5 pick?

At minimum Zegras would be asked to tone it down and stop the no look passes. His point total would likely be cut in half right now because he would be playing 10 minutes max. LA refuses to draft that type even though they liked him a lot, so do I minus the showboating. Stutzle doesn't do much for me and still see Byfield as the better pro.

No I never saw Turcotte live but he was the right pick at the time and has had some bad luck. I've been pretty spot on with who I've seen live in the USHL. I was never big on Trevor Lewis but liked Okposo and said Petry would be the most valuable of the 3 that played for the Buccaneers. I was wrong about John Moore but correct about Louis Leblanc and Andreas Nodl. I know you like Brink and maybe he's improved a ton but I didn't see anything special about him. Anyway, it's way too early for shoulda woulda coulda, especially when the Kings kids are put in a position to fail.

 

[KingsHockey24]

at #5 overall? (he wernt 6th) I think only Yzerman did....even Seider himself looked shocked, when his name was called.
I never saw his name come up here for the Kings taking him....of course, the KINGS were slotted #2 overall and the lotto gods pushed the Kings to #5 overall.

I wanted him but saw he was ranked at like #20 and was like damn; he looks like a solid late pick forsure.

I basically wanted anyone but Turcotte. Mostly Byram but would've been okay with Dach which many mocks had us taking.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I wouldnt go that far, but he's got a LOT more learning as a player to do than this forum seems to think. The guy is more worthless off the puck than Durzi but has the mouth of Doughty.

That said he's clearly capable of it.

Never said he wasn't capable, but the player he is now, will not win in this league. He has a crap ton to grow, luckily he has the room to grow....but I've always wondered what the fascination was other than, ooh shiny new thing over there....

 

[KingsCourt]

Have you watched the games? Peterson is not even average. He doesn’t help anyone

Peterson is starting to really worry me.

technically sound (as Faust says) but just not getting the job done, too many weak goals. I'm used to Quick always battling even on the days he just doesn't have it, I just don't see the passion in Cal

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Practice today: Iafallo wearing white!!! Looks like they will possibly give Lias or Arty a top 6 shot.

Everyone was on the ice today, but the team did not take formal line rushes. With that in mind, here’s a look at how the Kings lined up during practice today at United Center –

Gray: Andersson, Arvidsson, Danault, Kaliyev, Kempe, Kopitar, Moore
White: Brown, Byfield, Grundstrom, Iafallo, Kupari, Lemieux, Lizotte, Vilardi
Defensemen: Bjornfot, Durzi, Edler, Maatta, Moverare, Roy, Spence, Stecher, Strand
Goaltenders: Quick, Petersen

 

[DoktorJeep]

Practice today: Iafallo wearing white!!! Looks like they will possibly give Lias or Arty a top 6 shot.

Everyone was on the ice today, but the team did not take formal line rushes. With that in mind, here’s a look at how the Kings lined up during practice today at United Center –

Gray: Andersson, Arvidsson, Danault, Kaliyev, Kempe, Kopitar, Moore
White: Brown, Byfield, Grundstrom, Iafallo, Kupari, Lemieux, Lizotte, Vilardi
Defensemen: Bjornfot, Durzi, Edler, Maatta, Moverare, Roy, Spence, Stecher, Strand
Goaltenders: Quick, Petersen

I wouldn’t read to much into the colored assignments. Most likely the trainers didn’t get a chance to do laundry on the road and just handed out the cleanest jersey available for each player.

 

[No Name The Nameless]

Peterson is starting to really worry me.

technically sound (as Faust says) but just not getting the job done, too many weak goals. I'm used to Quick always battling even on the days he just doesn't have it, I just don't see the passion in Cal

Everything he does appears to be slow or lazy. He's the absolute worst when the play is behind the net. Lackadaisical going from left to right. He really struggles diagnosing the play behind and over his right shoulder. I'd say he's pretty good defending everything left but defending right is a down right problem. Notice how all successful shootout attempts are scored on the his right?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

What about his game do you think does not translate to winning hockey? He is the second highest producing skater on the Ducks with a ES P/60 of 2.3. He has the best CF% on the team and the third best SF% on the team. He does have a negative GF% Rel of -3.8, but that is better than Kupari, Kempe, Byfield and Vilardi, so I assume if you are using that as a metric you also feel like those players are not conducive to winning hockey.

They all play much better defensively, Zegras is a tire fire on defense.....I'm not sure if second highest producing skater on the DUCKS is a ringing endorsement.....you tell me he's 2nd on Calgary, Edmonton, Tampa, Boston, shit even Carolina....ok maybe....

The problem with advance stats, is you can use them to tell yourself whatever you want.....

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

What translates to winning hockey? What exactly are you basing it off of, because he isn't a gritty player?
Are you saying that skilled players like Zegras have not won championships before? The Turcotte truthers on here love to reference the WJC's as the reason why he is such a great prospect, how did Zegras do in that tournament?

You say they aren't the same player (him and Caufield), ok one is a small soft playmaking wizard and one is a small soft goalscorer, how come the small soft goalscorer was able to be one of the better players in last years playoffs but the small soft playmaker wont be able to?

And the reason I referenced "oh cool, this again" is because this narrative has been used ad nuaseum on this board for about 15 years that skilled players can't win championships or contribute to a teams success. It was used about Patrick Kane, it was used about Kuchreov it was used about Ovechkin, it was used about Tarasenko. It's now being used on Matthews, Gaudreau and Caufield. Guess we can add Zegras to this list.

There is no truth to it at all. It's just being used by some members of a fanbase wanting to minimize the abilties of a player for a rival team, a player that the Kings happened to pass up on for a lesser player. It doesn't mean the Kings are doomed, the Kings passed on Getzlaf and Perry for Brown and Tambellini and ended up fine, but no need to minimize the better player with false narratives.

Being able to play somewhat competently in the defensive zone, I mean...like any iota of competence, kid doesn't have it, doesn't mean he won't get it, but he clearly doesn't have it yet.

Did you mean to throw in Caufield with Matthews and Gaudreau? Matthews is solid defensively, Gaudreau is as well, changes his game up a bit this year....

As far as Kane, Kucherov, Ovechkin etc, again, ALL have a two way game, Zegras does not....

I'm not minimizing anyone, again, Zegras has skill up the ass, but there are definitely questions if that skill is going to be developed into more than a highlight a week.....

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I often wonder why this board despises certain types of players so much. Obviously those being skilled offensive players that would be considered "soft". Even guys the Kings have had issues with like Tkachuk are respected and admired. And I think you kind of brought up the reason by mentioning Kopitar, and its because it's just been so long since we had a player who made you jump out of your seat when he had the puck. Kopitar kind of fit the bill with the skilled part, but Kopi was a unicorn, he was a big skilled, two-way center, he brought it all.

The last time we had a player that was like a Zegras, Gaudreau, Caufield type was Palffy who last played for the Kings in 2004. It's hard to remember having a player like that. We've had a great center in Kopi, a great D in Doughty and a great goaltender in Quick. The two things we have never really had the last decade was an elite offensive defenseman and an elite high skilled scoring forward.



No way Zegras and Stutzle have been in the AHL. Byfield has been up the whole time he has been healthy, Kupari is going to get 60 games and Vilardi got 30. Even Turcotte got 8.

As far as the picks being the right ones, based on what, the rankings? If that is the case there is no such thing as a bad pick ever, Aki Berg and Derek Forbort were picked about where they were ranked, so was Jeff Tambellini. I mean that is fine to think that, but by that criteria there is no such thing as a good or bad draft as long as teams pick guys where they are ranked.

You live in that part of the country, did you ever watch Turcotte play in college, did he really strike you as a worthy top 5 pick?

I really chalk it all up to jealousy. Deep down, they know the Kings f***ed up badly on wasting a top five pick on a grinder who is far from a guarantee to even be a bottom six NHL forward.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Didn't matter who anyone wanted, anything realistic would have been better. Even the people who wanted Knight (there were some), I'm usually not on board with goalies that high but considering our goaltending situation I'd be happy with Knight.

For what its worth I remember Turcotte people, Dach people, Zegras people, Cozens people, some Knight people, a couple on the Caufield wagon with me. I don't remember any Seider people.

And ya, bad luck Kings. 5 NTDP forwards taken in the Top 15, four are thriving in the NHL, ofcourse the one that isn't is the Kings pick. Now look at Clarke's potentially serious injury...its been a tough 8 years since AMart scored in OT.

Actually..7....it's worse than you thought lol

 

[SherVaughn30]

Peterson is starting to really worry me.

technically sound (as Faust says) but just not getting the job done, too many weak goals. I'm used to Quick always battling even on the days he just doesn't have it, I just don't see the passion in Cal

Petersen can still turn out to be a good goalie, but right now he looks like he lacks a bit of confidence. He looks a bit passive. I don't think he needs to ramp it up and be aggressive like Quick plays, but I think it would be better for Petersen to challenge shooters more, whether in tight or from shots further out. I wonder, because of the revolving door with the Kings d-group this season, if that is effecting Petersen mental approach? Some goalies play the same no matter what d-men are playing in front of them(Quick is that way), while other goalies think too much or lose some confidence if the d-men are making too many mistakes. It could also be that Petersen just hasn't handled the more workload this season and last. Too me he still at a backup/1b level. The 20 wins are good, but the GAA/SV% are not good. With the Kings having mostly a weaker schedule the last 8 games, he has a chance to build up his game to play better.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

This board would have the biggest hard-on for Zegras if he was a King. There's been gushing over Byfield *almost* scoring a similar goal to Kopitar's first around Pronger while Zegras is making alley-oop passes from behind the net.

It's easy to say that a flashy guy won't ever win anything because you are right until it actually happens. Bottom line right now is that this guy is producing and--wins or not--is a very exciting player. The goal is to win games but this is also entertainment. As a STH'er, it would be awesome to watch a guy that could make you jump out of your seat at anytime.

As a fan, absolutely, kid puts butts in the seat no doubt..... unless he grows his game however, that's all he is going to do.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Some fans believe you have to play like Adam Deadmarsh and Mike Richards to be worth a damn as a player in the post season.

Point out a player that was a HUGE defensive liability, while winning a Stanley Cup....there is maybe what....a handful...IF that?

 

[SFKingshomer]

Wish the Kings would give their kids free reign to make mistakes like Zegras and Stutzle have been given from day 1.