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Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread 2022-23 Season

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Sol said:
The players I want the Kings to trade, Arvidsson, Walker, Roy, and by some miracle Petersen
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Why Arvidsson? He had on of the best point per games for us last season and is one of what - two? Right shot forwards we have.
 
Sol said:
I think using Vilardi as a model for the five year development plan is so insane to me. What happened with Vilardi is not normal at all so let’s not use him as a comparison
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That's like using Kempe as the development model. All the difference in Vilardi on the ice right now besides confidence, is that he's a faster skater now. I have no idea what training regiment or skating coaches he's worked with but those people deserve a raise.

Gabe's puck skills haven't changed. The passing vision and the shot and puck protection have always been there. It's just he was slower and weak on his skates and that was problematic. If Gabe was the same skater today than he was last season? It would be the same inconsistent results.

If people want to give the development staff credit for his improvement in skating, okay. But why did they wait until now? I don't think skating is a skill where the light bulb just turns on and you're faster. This could have been applied years ago or Gabe went out on his own and found his own skating coach or trained on his own and got better skating on his own. Either way this is not a good example of the slow marinating development path proving out.
 
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KingsHockey24 said:
Why Arvidsson? He had on of the best point per games for us last season and is one of what - two? Right shot forwards we have.
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Just my shit opinion but Arvy scores but he also puts the team in a bad spot most of the time.
As a volume shooter with a hairpin trigger, about 75% of his shots a well of the mark and carom into open areas that led to rushes the other way. He has a really bad habit of shooting before any King is set and it’s cost us more than a few times.
Plus, both Moore and Arvy in my eyes are benefitting the most by playing with PD, just look at how awesome Iafallo-Danault-Kempe were playing last season before all the injuries
 
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Sol said:
I think using Vilardi as a model for the five year development plan is so insane to me. What happened with Vilardi is not normal at all so let’s not use him as a comparison
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Then use Draisaitl, Wheeler, or any other number of 'big' guys who take longer to develop, including using the model posted here that said players often take 400 NHL games to blossom. That's statistical evidence, not 'I feel's. And for 'regular' guys it's 200 games. Now consider the situations each of these guys are in and it makes plenty of sense that it's still emergent skill. That's one of mine and @Herby 's principal compliants.

cyclones22 said:
That's like using Kempe as the development model. All the difference in Vilardi on the ice right now besides confidence, is that he's a faster skater now. I have no idea what training regiment or skating coaches he's worked with but those people deserve a raise.

Gabe's puck skills haven't changed. The passing vision and the shot and puck protection have always been there. It's just he was slower and weak on his skates and that was problematic. If Gabe was the same skater today than he was last season? It would be the same inconsistent results.

If people want to give the development staff credit for his improvement in skating, okay. But why did they wait until now? I don't think skating is a skill where the light bulb just turns on and you're faster. This could have been applied years ago or Gabe went out on his own and found his own skating coach or trained on his own and got better skating on his own. Either way this is not a good example of the slow marinating development path proving out.
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I think it's as simple as this is the first offseason where he got to actually train to get better not just full-on rehab his back in like 3-4 years.
 
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cyclones22 said:
That's like using Kempe as the development model. All the difference in Vilardi on the ice right now besides confidence, is that he's a faster skater now. I have no idea what training regiment or skating coaches he's worked with but those people deserve a raise.

Gabe's puck skills haven't changed. The passing vision and the shot and puck protection have always been there. It's just he was slower and weak on his skates and that was problematic. If Gabe was the same skater today than he was last season? It would be the same inconsistent results.

If people want to give the development staff credit for his improvement in skating, okay. But why did they wait until now? I don't think skating is a skill where the light bulb just turns on and you're faster. This could have been applied years ago or Gabe went out on his own and found his own skating coach or trained on his own and got better skating on his own. Either way this is not a good example of the slow marinating development path proving out.
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Perhaps it’s been tied into the back.

I forget the name of the condition we speculated (we researched quite extensively) he may of had but IIRC this would fit. The condition settled fully early 20’s so maybe that’s limited his ability to work on it. I remember he talked about having to manage it when he first came back. Thats the positive outlook based entirely on speculation.

The negative one could be that this is the first off season where he’s put the right effort in. Perhaps he is lazy in the off season?

I highly doubt any of it is because the development staff haven’t bothered and simply waited until now to address the issue. It might also be that it’s taken trial and error to figure out what would work for him as an off season program, if the back still needs to be managed. BTW, It’s not just his skating but his conditioning seems better also.

My point ultimately being that his back issues seriously cloud any uninformed assessment we make. There are a couple of different back issues that seemed to fit his problems based on the very little we knew. Those ones seemed to indicate there was a chance of needing to manage things carefully, anywhere from a short to long term timeline.

Yes it’s possible the dev team did a poor job or Gabe didn’t bother but the back is as likely culprit as any. I think we forget there were concerns that he’d ever step on the ice again.
 
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What model says it takes 400 NHL games to blossom?

400 games is basically 5 full NHL seasons. The majority of top 6 players in the NHL became top 6 players well before that time. If you are talking about blossoming as peaking and hitting their stone primes, that is a more fair number. But it simply does not take that long for top 6 players to become top 6 players. You can go through every team in the league and you will see the majority of their top 6 hit top 6 on their ELC’s.

Leon Draisaitl was old for his draft year, QB was young. So easier to compare by age. QB is in year 3 at 20, LD was in year 2 at 20. In year 2 at 20 LD had 51 points, in year 3 at 21 he had 77. If QB comes anywhere close to those numbers at 20 and 21 no one is complaining.
 
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Herby said:
What model says it takes 400 NHL games to blossom?

400 games is basically 5 full NHL seasons. The majority of top 6 players in the NHL became top 6 players well before that time. If you are talking about blossoming as peaking and hitting their stone primes, that is a more fair number. But it simply does not take that long for top 6 players to become top 6 players. You can go through every team in the league and you will see the majority of their top 6 hit top 6 it on their ELC’s.

Leon Draisaitl was old for his draft year, QB was young. So easier to compare by age. QB is in year 3 at 20, LD was in year 2 at 20. In year 2 at 20 LD had 51 points, in year 3 at 21 he had 77. If QB comes anywhere close to those numbers at 20 and 21 no one is complaining.
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I thought it was 200 for big and small guys and 100 for "regular" guys
 
Herby said:
What model says it takes 400 NHL games to blossom?

400 games is basically 5 full NHL seasons. The majority of top 6 players in the NHL became top 6 players well before that time. If you are talking about blossoming as peaking and hitting their stone primes, that is a more fair number. But it simply does not take that long for top 6 players to become top 6 players. You can go through every team in the league and you will see the majority of their top 6 hit top 6 on their ELC’s.

Leon Draisaitl was old for his draft year, QB was young. So easier to compare by age. QB is in year 3 at 20, LD was in year 2 at 20. In year 2 at 20 LD had 51 points, in year 3 at 21 he had 77. If QB comes anywhere close to those numbers at 20 and 21 no one is complaining.
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Post in thread 'C Quinton Byfield (2020, 2nd, LAK) part IV'
C Quinton Byfield (2020, 2nd, LAK) part IV
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
Then use Draisaitl, Wheeler, or any other number of 'big' guys who take longer to develop, including using the model posted here that said players often take 400 NHL games to blossom. That's statistical evidence, not 'I feel's. And for 'regular' guys it's 200 games. Now consider the situations each of these guys are in and it makes plenty of sense that it's still emergent skill. That's one of mine and @Herby 's principal compliants.



I think it's as simple as this is the first offseason where he got to actually train to get better not just full-on rehab his back in like 3-4 years.
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I think using Draisaitl and Wheeler as comparisons is pretty disingenuous when you consider the fact most forwards don’t take 5 years to blossom. More often than not those players don’t ever become anything so they’re the outliers not the standard which is why it’s completely irrelevant. Expecting Byfield to have a Vilardi path is so mind numbing because Vilardi is the exception to the standard. Not a product of it.
 
Chazz Reinhold said:
Post in thread 'C Quinton Byfield (2020, 2nd, LAK) part IV'
C Quinton Byfield (2020, 2nd, LAK) part IV
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What is a definition of breakthrough though? This just seems to totally contradict that players reach their peak at 26-27.

Also, does this include all players, or just players that are projected to be scoring line players in the NHL?

You can go through every teams top 6, figure out when that player became a top 6 player and there is just no way it matches up with 5 full NHL seasons worth of games to become a 2nd line players (and that is not even counting AHL games)?

I will look this up tonight for every player currently playing in a top 6 (can even do top 9) and I'd be totally shocked if it adds up. Maybe pre-lockout during the dead puck era when teams had control until 31, but not now.
 
Herby said:
What is a definition of breakthrough though? This just seems to totally contradict that players reach their peak at 26-27.

Also, does this include all players, or just players that are projected to be scoring line players in the NHL?

You can go through every teams top 6, figure out when that player became a top 6 player and there is just no way it matches up with 5 full NHL seasons worth of games to become a 2nd line players (and that is not even counting AHL games)?

I will look this up tonight for every player currently playing in a top 6 (can even do top 9) and I'd be totally shocked if it adds up. Maybe pre-lockout during the dead puck era when teams had control until 31, but not now.
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You’d have to pull the specifics from Dobber. You asked what model it was and that’s where the info was coming from.
 
Choralone said:
Damn, I was happy that Vilardi seems to have finally broken through. I guess I should be sad that it took 5 years. FU, Vilardi.
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Vilardi’s Speed
Speaking to those closest to the situation – mainly Todd McLellan and his linemates – there seems to be a universal agreement that Gabe Vilardi is a step faster this season than he was last season.

McLellan – Personally, I think, and the coaching staff thinks, that he’s a step quicker. He looks a little faster, some of that’s confidence, some of its feeling good. He feels good about himself, about his game, his teammates are excited for him. There’s a lot of real positive things in his world right now and we’ve got to keep them there.

Iafallo – For sure, yeah. It’s great to see. He’s definitely put his work in and he’s gotten a lot better and he’s definitely faster than he was the year before. It’s been great to see and I’m looking forward to playing with him.

Byfield – I do see that. I think there was a play in the preseason when it wasn’t an icing, but the other team’s defenseman had a lot of space on him and he caught him, stripped the puck and we got a chance off of it. Even on his backchecks, he’s getting back there quickly. He’s creating a lot off the forecheck, I think he’s definitely made a big improvement over the summer
 
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cyclones22 said:
That's like using Kempe as the development model. All the difference in Vilardi on the ice right now besides confidence, is that he's a faster skater now. I have no idea what training regiment or skating coaches he's worked with but those people deserve a raise.

Gabe's puck skills haven't changed. The passing vision and the shot and puck protection have always been there. It's just he was slower and weak on his skates and that was problematic. If Gabe was the same skater today than he was last season? It would be the same inconsistent results.

If people want to give the development staff credit for his improvement in skating, okay. But why did they wait until now? I don't think skating is a skill where the light bulb just turns on and you're faster. This could have been applied years ago or Gabe went out on his own and found his own skating coach or trained on his own and got better skating on his own. Either way this is not a good example of the slow marinating development path proving out.
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Could it be that maybe Gabe is just maturing mentally and physically and just had a light bulb moment where he thought "maybe I just need to be a little faster"? Why would people automatically look to the staff for reasons on someone developing?
 
Cianide said:
Could it be that maybe Gabe is just maturing mentally and physically and juhad a light bulb moment where he thought "maybe I just need to be a little faster"? Why would people automatically look to the staff for reasons on someone developing?
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I'm saying I doubt the staff had anything to do with it.
 
cyclones22 said:
I'm saying I doubt the staff had anything to do with it.
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reign got a new strength coach.....

1e4mCkA.gif
 
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