King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
- Jul 1, 2003
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Odd he'd pick the Kings even though he played with the Jr. Ducks and his dad's now an assistant coach with Anaheim
Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread 2022-23 Season
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Steve Zissou
I'll order you a red cap and a Speedo.
- May 9, 2014
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To your previous point something that could be fact checked in 60 seconds.
- May 9, 2014
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It’s a perfectly reasonable reply and it’s a pretty balanced lineup. The argument for current deployment is that it keeps our best line together but its also a line that could easily regress in its output.
There are fair arguments for both approaches but the current deployment feels like a short term mindset. Now if they’ve done to make a strong start and plan to transition to a more balanced lineup as the season progresses I could get on board.
Not having QB on pp2 is strange though. I am OK with Clarke not starting on the PP but he will need some time there as part of his 9 games at the very least.
cyclones22
Registered User
Worker bees should not be on the power play. It's five on four FFS. If you don't have a shot or creativity or a net front presence you have no business being on that unit. I like Moore, a healthy AI and the like at ES, but creating and cashing in on chances on a power play are not strengths. Hell remember Roy was tried on PP1 and PP2? That won't happen this season, but that highlighted the Kings play it safe mentality.
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KingsFan7824
Registered User
But why won't that happen this year? The same reason it did happen last year.
In the 11 games Clague played last year, Mr. Waivers averaged 3:25 on the PP(the most on the team other than everyone's favorite minor league sub, Frk). In the 24 games Spence played, he was 5th on D in average PP time, behind Clague, Doughty, Durzi, and Walker. A minor league guy, and two injured players. Roy finished behind Wolanin of all people in average PP min. There wasn't much offense coming from the rest of the D until Stetcher in the playoffs.
Unless it's 5 F's on the PP, at some point Roy had to be on the PP last year, just because every other option was hurt.
TM even threw Spence out there for the 2nd most PP time per game in the playoffs, only behind Durzi, and way ahead of Roy.
lumbergh
It was an idea. I didn't say it was a good idea.
I think Moore was used quite a bit on power play entry, so his purpose on the power play is not just to put the puck in the net.
11 definitely needs to average less minutes this season. He was toast by the time LA made the playoffs. Need to manage his minutes better since he can no longer keep up with the top younger centers. Deploy him smarter. Less than 22 minutes a night, 20-21 seems about right. Seems to be more affective at around 20.
Piston
Fire Luc and Blake
This is a great post. I for one am quite concerned. Our goaltending is well below average, Kopitar is not getting any younger yet there is no evidence that he'll have a reduced role with his minutes carefully managed, and our much touted prospect pool is either not being given an opportunity to seize a larger role or being turned into suspects that have less trade value. I will root for the team and hope for the best, but I wonder how long it will be till we hear the word 'regression' used quite often. I hope I'm wrong.
Chazz Reinhold
Registered User
Patrice Bergeron has been playing 18 minutes per game the past 4 seasons and hasn’t been over 20 for the past 15 seasons. There is no reason Kopitar shouldn’t be playing the same as Bergeron, especially this season.
Steve Zissou
I'll order you a red cap and a Speedo.
I think we can all safely agree to get Kopitar off the f***ing penalty kill!
Herby
How could Blake have known?
Buddy I walked in from work and pulled that lineup out of my ass in five minutes, give me a breakall day, lol.
If the 3rd line was getting roughly equal playing time, is it really an issue? and if it's really an issue, just rotate 3LWs, and you're done. Again, you're trying to mindf*** everyone into thinking it's brain surgery but it's incredibly, elementary simple to make lines that make sense that don't mean 35 year old vets are playing #1 dman minutes and allow for developing kids to get proper support AND bigger minutes.
But it's pretty clear you asked that in bad faith as always and I fell for it as always but there, you have a reasonable answer as to how to move things around to accommodate disparate elements very, very easily. I tried to indulge you in good faith but feel free to go back into yelling into the void.
Bad faith from him? No way. He is always so honest and truthful.
It's funny how he talks about people thinking this is a "video game". But he is the one who analyzes the Kings (in particular Kopitar) like its a video game with injuries, age and stamina off.
Kopitar is 35 years old, with 1300 NHL games played and coming off another season where he averaged close to 21 minutes of ice-time, much of it spent checking against centers a decade younger than him.
The Kings have to get his minutes down closer to 18 minutes a game, and with the Kings not really having 2 star forwards who **have to** play together and the movement in the league to having three scoring lines your suggestion of spreading out the scoring and icetime distribution is a valid one. And based on how I think the season will play out, it's something they will have to do whether they want to or not, because I am extremely skeptical that Kopitar and Danault can hold up playing the minutes they played last season if they were to try and do that again.
I pull for him because he is from the same area where I grew up and went to the same HS as my brother and sister, but I just never came away impressed when I have seen him play for the Gophers. He has just never looked like a guy who had any business going in Round 1 (especially when compared to teammate Faber). He kind of reminds me of a defensive version of his dad, in that he skates really well, but doesn't really do anything else at a very high level.
I'd certainly take a shot, since he would be a 22 year old UFA and would add some organizational depth, but I don't know if his ceiling is anything more than a 5-7 d-man.
johnjm22
Pseudo Intellectual
- Aug 2, 2005
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And look at Bergeron's OZ start %
2017-18 58.3
2018-19 59.1
2019-20 62.1
2020-21 56.9
2021-22 58.9
Must be nice.
KingsFan7824
Registered User
He finished at 20:46 last year. Not the happy number.
21:57 for the playoffs, but TM went real top heavy there, and had 4 forwards average less ice time than any F's during the regular season.
I think we're all waiting to see what, if anything, will get TM to cut Kopitar's ice time. Is it something Kopitar isn't doing? Something Byfield does? Is it a team thing? Does TM believe playing Kopitar less would be good, but just gets caught up in the moment of a game? Especially if it's close, one way or another, which most Kings games are? Is he looking for something specific from QB? If Danault wasn't here, would QB get those minutes? If not him, who would? Tynan? Probably Tynan. TM loves Lizotte, so at least if he took a few minutes from Kopitar, would that be considered progress? Is it an ABK type situation?
The only way that Kopitar has his minutes reduced this season is if Byfield takes a major step. Last season QB has the second worst CF%, the worst GF%, third worst xGF%, and the second worst P/60 all while having the highest ozone start%. TMac is not going to force minutes to QB if those numbers don't improve and there is really nobody else on the roster to eat into Kopitar's minutes.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
No wonder he's on the 4th line. Huge red flag.
Absolutely, but for the first stretch, he was posting team-best possession #s and it passed the eye test as well. It wasn't until he was saddled with slugs that those numbers--and clearly his confidence and rhythm--dipped.
This is the biggest reason we advocate for giving him big minutes with great players. I mean we can chicken-and-egg it all day within reason I think, you're not wrong, but I think this mentality that they have to prove it and we're going to make it harder for them rather than support them is problematic. Edit: especially not giving him PP time, like there is not a reasonable argument against giving your #2 OA pick NHL PP time and your #5 OA pick AHL PP time.
Edit: I'll also add, from what we've seen at various levels, for better or worse, he seems to be a player greatly affected by confidence. When he's rolling, its over. But when he starts overthinking, he gets tentative. I have to imagine that only gets better when he gets fed some success. Stiffarming dudes to the groudn in the preseason is a nice start!
Absolutely, but for the first stretch, he was posting team-best possession #s and it passed the eye test as well. It wasn't until he was saddled with slugs that those numbers--and clearly his confidence and rhythm--dipped.
This is the biggest reason we advocate for giving him big minutes with great players. I mean we can chicken-and-egg it all day within reason I think, you're not wrong, but I think this mentality that they have to prove it and we're going to make it harder for them rather than support them is problematic. Edit: especially not giving him PP time, like there is not a reasonable argument against giving your #2 OA pick NHL PP time and your #5 OA pick AHL PP time.
Edit: I'll also add, from what we've seen at various levels, for better or worse, he seems to be a player greatly affected by confidence. When he's rolling, its over. But when he starts overthinking, he gets tentative. I have to imagine that only gets better when he gets fed some success. Stiffarming dudes to the groudn in the preseason is a nice start!
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Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
I’d like to see a single game switching Byfield and Kopitar, just to see what happens
I mean I'd be all for that but mostly I just want to see the minutes from top to bottom sandwiched a bit to be more like 18-17-15-10 with guys like Kaliyev and Byfield getting a couple of PP minutes to add.
I went back to look at the numbers and couldn't find any stretch where he was putting up team best possession numbers. His first game was near the top, but he seemed to fall off after that.
The main issue is that the Kings are trying to compete, so it's not as much about making it harder on the prospects, it's about trying to win. I don't agree with the direction the team went down, but with the decisions they made(acquiring Danault, Arrvy, Fiala), prospects are not going to get minutes if they aren't performing. I really hope that Byfield can put together, because Kopi can not be logging those big minutes anymore and Danault doesn't have much more to give. Byfield might be the most important player for this season.
I wonder if the 10 days missed with his illness played a part in the recent pp setup.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Stark difference than when he was placed with plugs.
I very much get it's about 'trying to win' but put Kopitar with similar linemates and watch what happens. And if it's about performance, demoting Vilardi and Grundstrom after the preseasons they've had--where there's almost literally nothing more they could do--wouldn't be happening.
Oh wait, they removed those guys from the top lines because they weren't performing, and slapped them with Byfield who then didn't perform. Who would've thought?
Anyway I'm not arguing with you, I'm arguing with the situation. It's just frustrating to me watching them do this again and again and again and I'm hoping now they decide to at least somewhat break the cycle.
DoktorJeep
Fair winds and following seas Nikolai.
QB’s advanced stats shouldn’t be compared to the rest of the team. He played a bottom six role in limited games. It was on a team going to the playoffs. So he’s forced into a role where he’s supposed to play like a defensive specialist within sheltered minutes.
So you see odd deployments which end up counting as a high number of O zone starts. Because he’s #2 and not #22, he isn’t allowed to just focus on D, so his turnovers and lack of production are a double negative if you’re expecting offense from the kid.
Find me a comparable ELC lottery pick on a playoff team who is dominating Corsi stats. Then filter out the centers. Then subtract the 19 year olds. Your left with some apples to compare to QB. My guess is there are zero other apples.
So you see odd deployments which end up counting as a high number of O zone starts. Because he’s #2 and not #22, he isn’t allowed to just focus on D, so his turnovers and lack of production are a double negative if you’re expecting offense from the kid.
Find me a comparable ELC lottery pick on a playoff team who is dominating Corsi stats. Then filter out the centers. Then subtract the 19 year olds. Your left with some apples to compare to QB. My guess is there are zero other apples.
KingsFan7824
Registered User
Vilardi and Grundstrom weren't demoted. They were never going to be on any other lines. The top two lines have been set all summer.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Maybe. But if that's the case, then all of this stuff about 'winning jobs' and outperforming your peers is just lip service. That's not better.
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