Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread 2022-23 Season

[Fishhead]

Damn. Doing my man Kempe dirty.

Yeah. We have too many skilled forwards - let's jettison one. This is the first time in forever that we don't have a problem scoring goals and after 18 games of this luxury we're confident enough to jettison the team's top goal scorer from the prior year (and the second-leading goal scorer this year) because we need a competent LD?

I know our resident experts have him pegged to return to his goal scoring totals of two years ago due to the infallible law of "regression to the mean" but I don't think we need to look for excuses to shove him out the door like he only scores in blow-outs powerplays.

Kempe isn't getting traded.

Last year: 35G, 19A, 54 points. Everyone thought it was a breakout year.

This year's pace: 32g, 18A, 50 points. Now it's he's regressing.

He's been subpar so far and he's still almost on the same pace. It makes zero sense.

 

[dman3474]

Trade RV and Iafallo, they will need the money to sign Vilardi and Moore.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Kempe isn't getting traded.

Last year: 35G, 19A, 54 points. Everyone thought it was a breakout year.

This year's pace: 32g, 18A, 50 points. Now it's he's regressing.

He's been subpar so far and he's still almost on the same pace. It makes zero sense.

Much like Kopitar last year my issue with Kempe isn't the scoring/raw production, it's that he's getting lit up like Christmas Tree. Whether you're scoring or not, just don't get outscored.

We expect Kaliyev to crush a matchup next to them when they can't crush it on their own, but punish Kaliyev for not crushing it there? Weird.

 

[Docgonzo]

What does it matter the forward combos right now when they’re scoring 5 and giving up 6? Unless you believe trading Arvidsson or some extra forward will get a defender that’ll fix this defense.

The scoring so far is not the issue with this team. Kings have basically become the Oilers right now except it’s scoring from all 4 lines rather than 2 players.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Kaliyev with Danault and Moore this season: 3 goals for, 0 against in 3 minutes at even strength together, Kaliyev with a goal and assist.
Crazy good possession numbers. Unusual chemistry. I know, sample size, but it's still there. It was even there last season.

Danault is very good at getting the puck back & passing that puck to linemates. Any shooter would be lucky to have a setup guy like Danault. Can Kaliyev go up against other teams top lines?

Just out of curiosity, why isn't Kaliyev ready for the extra work?

Kaliyev is 21 & 98 games into his pro career. There are very few players that are able to match up against other teams best at that age.

He pulled a power move going to the net last game. His game is growing. Don't see the need put the stress of the top 6 on him right now. There are 64 games left in the regular season. It's a marathon. Just let him keep kicking butt. Kaliyev will move up the line up soon enough.

Kaliyev might be filling in for Ardvidsson after all the punishment he took against the flames.

 

[Fishhead]

Much like Kopitar last year my issue with Kempe isn't the scoring/raw production, it's that he's getting lit up like Christmas Tree. Whether you're scoring or not, just don't get outscored.

We expect Kaliyev to crush a matchup next to them when they can't crush it on their own, but punish Kaliyev for not crushing it there? Weird.

I don't expect Kaliyev to crush any matchups, just hold his own which he is starting to do quite well.

I don't see how Kempe is getting lit up this year. His possession metrics are positive at even strength, even with facing tougher matchups. He's got a positive GF% as well. More often than not that line is still drawing top competition. If you can break even against great opposition while putting up 30g and 50 points, that's just fine, especially at his price tag.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't expect Kaliyev to crush any matchups, just hold his own which he is starting to do quite well.

I don't see how Kempe is getting lit up this year. His possession metrics are positive at even strength, even with facing tougher matchups. He's got a positive GF% as well. More often than not that line is still drawing top competition. If you can break even against great opposition while putting up 30g and 50 points, that's just fine, especially at his price tag.

I must be seeing different numbers then but i'll look again in theAM, waayyy too tired to continute tonight haha

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Yes, he was moved up in minutes and responsibility. He had 16 minutes which is way more than he usually does. As I said, I think he fits with Kopitar, but he didn't look great the few times he was on the 2nd either. That line is too mobile and north-south, that's not Arty's game at all.

I simply don't see the reason to move him right now. He's excelling and it's giving our lines balance. Let him continue to build his game and confidence.

The good thing is we can actually check your claim. Turns out it's false. After Iafallo got hurt (which is the first time the lines saw actual change):

vs. Nashville:

vs. Pittsburgh

vs. Washington

vs. Tampa Bay

vs. Winnipeg

By the Toronto game he was back with Lizotte and Lemieux:

One game where his line he did not get the fourth most minutes of any lines, and that one game was where there was a one-minute difference between the third and fourth line. Those minutes were spent primarily with Byfield (who clearly began to struggle once Iafallo went down), Vilardi, and JAD.

Again, Kaliyev has played all of 12 minutes with Kopitar or Danault at even strength this season. In those 12 minutes, the Kings were 20 CF/5 CA and 11 SCF/3 SCA. Seems to handle the responsibility fine so far when it has actually happened.

 

[Mats26]

Bowman did this with Montreal in the 70's. Robinson, Lapointe and Savard were all left handed and rotated between the left and right side and between them as well. And as the early 70's became the late 70's, Langway and Engblom began to emerge, before they were dealt, but again left handed defenseman.

I really can't think of a high minute/scoring right handed defenseman Montreal had in that era.

Agreed. When talking about RD, I can't remember any being successful playing off wing. We are also talking Durzi - Walker - Clarke trying to succeed here not HOFers. That's why I questioned why Blake thought this would work being a D man himself.

 

[mysterman2]

If Blake could find a taker for Arvidson/Durzi for a LHD the team would be so much better. Swap out Walker if you like or simply move Walker for a pick and eat some salary as incentive.

Interesting article in todays athletic....ranking the players.

2022-23 NHL GSVA Leaderboard

A ranking of every player’s value this season, as judged by GSVA – a catch-all stat that incorporates a player’s production and play-driving while accounting for usage. Only the top 100 players are shown in the table below with an additional link to download the data above it. The leaderboards...

theathletic.com

 

[Fat Elvis]

Probably not a popular opinion, but I much prefer Walker over Durzi. Just not a fan of his defense, which is tough when he's a defensemen. His decision making is below average. Why Todd plays him on his off-side is a question I'd like answered. He makes crap decisions on his normal side. LA just has better options and need to move #50 asap, IMO

 

[bland]

Its getting to be time where folks have to stop worrying about who will or won't play well with Kopitar. Next year may very well be his last.

Kempe is WELL below Iafallo and Moore as a player. As a weapon, yes, he is slightly more productive, but with the acquisition of Fiala and the emergences of Vilardi and Kaliyev, he is clearly the most expendable of the lot.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't expect Kaliyev to crush any matchups, just hold his own which he is starting to do quite well.

I don't see how Kempe is getting lit up this year. His possession metrics are positive at even strength, even with facing tougher matchups. He's got a positive GF% as well. More often than not that line is still drawing top competition. If you can break even against great opposition while putting up 30g and 50 points, that's just fine, especially at his price tag.

I see, you were looking at ES rather than 5v5. Makes sense. I was looking at 5v5, which is where Kaliyev would be playing with Kopitar/Kempe. In that play, he's close to dead last in CF%, GF%, and anything high danger, as well as that jives with xGF and those metrics (as well as the eye test). Which, of course, is my criticism of their performances--the production is there no doubt, but they can't stop the bleeding defensively. For Kempe, that's new this year; for Kopitar, it goes back to the start of 2022.

So, I'm less worried about that line not performing defensively with Arty--I have been going back some time vocally concerned about them losing their matchups night after night and Kempe has joined that this year.

 

[bmr]

This team will take a quantum leap if Blake can figure out the defense. Our offense has already been killing it. This has to be the year. We are going to be at risk of losing assets and we have a logjam at RHD. Spence should be here - he has nothing left to do in the AHL.

 

[Fishhead]

The good thing is we can actually check your claim. Turns out it's false. After Iafallo got hurt (which is the first time the lines saw actual change):

vs. Nashville:
View attachment 608578


vs. Pittsburgh
View attachment 608579


vs. Washington
View attachment 608580


vs. Tampa Bay
View attachment 608581


vs. Winnipeg
View attachment 608582

By the Toronto game he was back with Lizotte and Lemieux:
View attachment 608583

One game where his line he did not get the fourth most minutes of any lines, and that one game was where there was a one-minute difference between the third and fourth line. Those minutes were spent primarily with Byfield (who clearly began to struggle once Iafallo went down), Vilardi, and JAD.

Again, Kaliyev has played all of 12 minutes with Kopitar or Danault at even strength this season. In those 12 minutes, the Kings were 20 CF/5 CA and 11 SCF/3 SCA. Seems to handle the responsibility fine so far when it has actually happened.

Thanks for that, I honestly only remembered him playing up on the third during the Nashville game and then the Pittsburgh game where they got slaughtered as a line. After that there was some jumbling. But I stand corrected.

Still lots of good data in there.

5 games away from the 4th line - 1g, 2A and a -3

In the Tampa Bay game he played 8 out of his 10 minutes on the 3rd line, and in those other 2 minutes with Lizotte they connected for a goal where Arty assisted, was a great play.

His lone goal was on the PP, not on the 3rd line.

One assist was all he got with his linemates, on a Vilardi goal.

On the fourth line:

12 games, 5g, 5a +3. 4 of those points on the PP.

It's obvious that he flourishes when with Lizotte. Is it because of bad chemistry on the 3rd? Elevated QOC? Who knows, but it didn't work. I'd still like to see him tried with Kopitar, but there was a substantial swing of goals against when against better competition. I remember during the Pittsburgh game their top line was out there against our 3rd a lot, and they just got bitch slapped.

On the fourth line he's been a +3 with only 6 ES points. Goals against are very low when he's in that slot.

All of that points to him struggling against better competition, which also explains why he hasn't looked great over the last two years when off that line (ice time nonwithstanding). That's why I don't really see the need to move him off that line right now, and certainly don't think it's smart to trade one of our top-6 for a D man, assuming Arty can just fill the spot, which is more what I was responding to when the analysis of his time/game started.

 

[Fishhead]

I see, you were looking at ES rather than 5v5. Makes sense. I was looking at 5v5, which is where Kaliyev would be playing with Kopitar/Kempe. In that play, he's close to dead last in CF%, GF%, and anything high danger, as well as that jives with xGF and those metrics (as well as the eye test). Which, of course, is my criticism of their performances--the production is there no doubt, but they can't stop the bleeding defensively. For Kempe, that's new this year; for Kopitar, it goes back to the start of 2022.

View attachment 608643

So, I'm less worried about that line not performing defensively with Arty--I have been going back some time vocally concerned about them losing their matchups night after night and Kempe has joined that this year.

Yeah fair enough. They are holding their own, and while that's perfectly OK I agree it's below the standard. I do not think Vilardi on that line is good for Kopitar or Gabe. I do think with Arty those numbers start to dip more into the negative (at least initially) but I would consider giving it a try to see how it changes Kopitar and Kempe's game. Arty doesn't fit on the 3rd and the 2nd isn't his style. Personally, I think Kopitar looks best with Iafallo stapled next to him, but Kempe on the 4th isn't going to happen.

So then what? If Arty moves up, who goes to the 4th? Assuming Byfield as the 3rd center, odds are high you are gonna have Vilardi and Fiala as his wingers. This would intrigue me:

Kempe-Kopitar-Kaliyev
RV-Danault-Moore
Vilardi-Byfield-Fiala
Iafallo-Lizotte-Grundstrom

I think Lemieux gets a raw deal around here skill-wise, but that's one hell of a 4th line. There are always injuries and both Kupari and Iafallo are so plug and play you don't have to worry.

It's a refreshing change that 4th line winger is a problem because we have too many scorers. Will moving Arty up with Kopitar and Kempe mean a substantial step forward for him? He's already close to a ppg when in his 4th line slot this year, so is it even worth it? It could be if it jumpstarts Kopitar and/or Kempe.

I love Moore, but I'm starting to think the writing is on the wall there. It's likely going to come down to him or RV (who I would move to keep Trevor), but I don't think that gets sorted until after the season. I really like what RV brings, but Fiala is a juiced up version that makes him the most expendable. If Arty works with Kopitar I definitely dangle him with a prospect for a D. Kempe and Fiala can fill those two slots next to Byfield/Vliard and Danault/Moore, I move Iafallo up with Kopitar which is proven, and I put Kupari on the 4th with Grundstrom. Two bigger bodies around a rabid chihuahua.

As much as we like to complain, critique, and argue about stuff this team is starting to come together and is starting to look like a matchup nightmare, similar to 10 years ago. Blake has done a tremendous job with the offensive side and he deserves props for that. If some assets are moved to revamp the back end, we start talking about the C word.

 

[No Name The Nameless]

I think Kopi and Vilardi beast together. However, there have not been many goals out of their shifts.

 

[Fishhead]

I think Kopi and Vilardi beast together. However, there have not been many goals out of their shifts.

They can, but it seems to me they are in the same spots on the ice often, almost running into each other. At least 5v5. Give them some space and specific spots on the PP and they look fantastic.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I think Kopi and Vilardi beast together. However, there have not been many goals out of their shifts.

How many scoring chances though.....thats how you measure if it's working or not, if they can't get the chances goals won't come, if they ARE getting chances, goals will come.

 

[Brodeur]

Agreed. When talking about RD, I can't remember any being successful playing off wing. We are also talking Durzi - Walker - Clarke trying to succeed here not HOFers. That's why I questioned why Blake thought this would work being a D man himself.

Blake himself was on an Avs team which had Adam Foote and Derek Morris which ended up being a weird fit with everybody being RH. I remember Colorado GM Pierre Lacroix proclaiming that his blue line was set for the next decade after getting Morris but he only lasted two seasons. And just for an excuse to watch Patrick Roy's last moment in the NHL, here's the Morris-Blake pairing getting lost in coverage.

 

[Mats26]

Blake himself was on an Avs team which had Adam Foote and Derek Morris which ended up being a weird fit with everybody being RH. I remember Colorado GM Pierre Lacroix proclaiming that his blue line was set for the next decade after getting Morris but he only lasted two seasons. And just for an excuse to watch Patrick Roy's last moment in the NHL, here's the Morris-Blake pairing getting lost in coverage.

All the more reason I question his thoughts on going with righty - righty D men. It was never really sustainable. I think the next big move for the Kings will need to be for a LD. Fiala type of trade.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

All the more reason I question his thoughts on going with righty - righty D men. It was never really sustainable. I think the next big move for the Kings will need to be for a LD. Fiala type of trade.

It was never really sustainable according.....to what? When? I've said it before, this whole righty righty left lefty thing is a relatively NEW philosophy......and instead of putting your BEST 6 Dman on the roster.....you are trying to plug n play

 

[YAYSAY]

It was never really sustainable according.....to what? When? I've said it before, this whole righty righty left lefty thing is a relatively NEW philosophy......and instead of putting your BEST 6 Dman on the roster.....you are trying to plug n play

Problem is they're not putting their best 6 dman on the roster. And who cares how new it is, ask any D man in the league they'll probably tell you they're more comfortable on their natural side.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yeah fair enough. They are holding their own, and while that's perfectly OK I agree it's below the standard. I do not think Vilardi on that line is good for Kopitar or Gabe. I do think with Arty those numbers start to dip more into the negative (at least initially) but I would consider giving it a try to see how it changes Kopitar and Kempe's game. Arty doesn't fit on the 3rd and the 2nd isn't his style. Personally, I think Kopitar looks best with Iafallo stapled next to him, but Kempe on the 4th isn't going to happen.

So then what? If Arty moves up, who goes to the 4th? Assuming Byfield as the 3rd center, odds are high you are gonna have Vilardi and Fiala as his wingers. This would intrigue me:

Kempe-Kopitar-Kaliyev
RV-Danault-Moore
Vilardi-Byfield-Fiala
Iafallo-Lizotte-Grundstrom

I think Lemieux gets a raw deal around here skill-wise, but that's one hell of a 4th line. There are always injuries and both Kupari and Iafallo are so plug and play you don't have to worry.

It's a refreshing change that 4th line winger is a problem because we have too many scorers. Will moving Arty up with Kopitar and Kempe mean a substantial step forward for him? He's already close to a ppg when in his 4th line slot this year, so is it even worth it? It could be if it jumpstarts Kopitar and/or Kempe.

I love Moore, but I'm starting to think the writing is on the wall there. It's likely going to come down to him or RV (who I would move to keep Trevor), but I don't think that gets sorted until after the season. I really like what RV brings, but Fiala is a juiced up version that makes him the most expendable. If Arty works with Kopitar I definitely dangle him with a prospect for a D. Kempe and Fiala can fill those two slots next to Byfield/Vliard and Danault/Moore, I move Iafallo up with Kopitar which is proven, and I put Kupari on the 4th with Grundstrom. Two bigger bodies around a rabid chihuahua.

As much as we like to complain, critique, and argue about stuff this team is starting to come together and is starting to look like a matchup nightmare, similar to 10 years ago. Blake has done a tremendous job with the offensive side and he deserves props for that. If some assets are moved to revamp the back end, we start talking about the C word.

I agree with you but I think we're arguing different things to reach the same conclusion, lol.

I guess in short what I'm saying is Kopitar-Kempe have been struggling defensively--Kopi since last year. I dont' necessarily WANT Kaliyev right next to them, but I don't like the idea that he would be held down for being a drag on that line when they're a drag on themselves anyway.

I don't even necessarily care what "line #" Kaliyev is on in general if other guys are actually performing, if he actually gets PP time as well, because I totally agree that 4th line has been a nightmare for other teams too, and frankly 3rd and 4th line should be getting more minutes while the first gets slightly less, I'm more for that than rearranging the chairs.

 

[kings11]

I agree with you but I think we're arguing different things to reach the same conclusion, lol.

I guess in short what I'm saying is Kopitar-Kempe have been struggling defensively--Kopi since last year. I dont' necessarily WANT Kaliyev right next to them, but I don't like the idea that he would be held down for being a drag on that line when they're a drag on themselves anyway.

I don't even necessarily care what "line #" Kaliyev is on in general if other guys are actually performing, if he actually gets PP time as well, because I totally agree that 4th line has been a nightmare for other teams too, and frankly 3rd and 4th line should be getting more minutes while the first gets slightly less, I'm more for that than rearranging the chairs.

I’d like to point out that Kopi started struggling defensively when Kempe moved to the top line. Kempe has become mercurial, especially on the defensive end since last season. Scoring aside, Kempe’s overall game has declined..
I don’t mind pairing Kopi and Arthur together as they play a cerebral game, maybe adding a kid like Kupari with them would help offset their speed deficiency.
I do agree that the minutes definitely need to be spread out more but that will require a new coach with a more modern mindset, no more recycling coaches