LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

[Herby]

i think i'm going to be sick now

They'd be a playoff team next season and then ready to enter a long-run as a team with every piece needed to contend for a Stanley Cup, and that would be only a few short years after the fateful decisions to appeas Doughty and trade for Danault and VA and throw in the towel on rebuilding the right way to instead try and turn into the turn of the century Kings.

But who knows, maybe a lot of the ticket holders are impatient and ignorant to the correct ways to build a winning team and complain to their reps with comments like this....

For the record, I’d take a first round exit team over a draft lottery team any f***ing day of the week.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Rumor has Kings has Kings have called NJ about Toffoli.

Gross.

 

[BigKing]

The Kings had an 11 game road streak without Arvidsson. In fact, they played most of the season without him. He's not the catalyst. His return did give them a boost, but let's not pretend they couldn't win without him.

They also basically lost every game in January without him and got the coach fired.

Since Hiller took over, here is the Kings record without him:

3-5
One of those wins is against CBJ. Credit given since he played ten seconds. Should be no credit since it is Columbus.
One of the other wins was a sad SO win over Anaheim.

So that gives us the first game back, new coach bump win over Edmonton. Other two wins are CBJ and ANA. This also includes a 7-0 loss to the friggin' Buffalo Sabres.

4-0 record with him. Including the CBJ game since I included it above. If you want to say 3-0 then that's fine: I'll counter with 2 points in 3 games v. 2 points in 4 games.

We need to stop pretending that he isn't important. This isn't Jeff Carter joining the 2012 Kings type stuff but it is similar in that he helps the lines tremendously since his line is set and forget. Allows Fiala to be moved around the lineup. The PLD/Byfield thing has been dead since that CBJ game. The Kings have been complete trash since he left the lineup.

We also need to stop pretending that this team is/was good because they won 11 straight road games. At the same time, they were losing home games. We've also gone over the schedule before the wheels fell off and how the majority of their wins were against bad-to-average teams, much like after the Gavrikov trade last year.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

in reality nothing matters, with all the prospects we lost

it's best to retool and revisit in 5 years

the most pressing issue is to ensure Blake doesn't touch anything else, gets fired and also tie Bergevin to a bed somewhere until LA hires a qualified GM

everything else, DOES NOT MATTER

 

[Seattle King]

Have to keep Ingram. Could trade Vejmelka. He’s streaky. Had a rough start and been rough lately. Overall as a Yote been good.

Schmaltz+Vejmelka(50%) for Dvorak+2nd?

Vejmelka is terrible and will not move the needle a single iota, thanks anyway.

 

[Johnny Utah]

The Faber-Fiala trade might end up worse than the Vilardi trade.

 

[Kurrilino]

I bet he’d be thrilled with that. Lol.

The way he plays, he will fit in quite well with the old folks enjoying the winter heat

 

[YAYSAY]

https://x.com/TheFourthPeriod/status/1762883506105905610?s=20
Kings would be stupid to not trade Roy

 

[kingsholygrail]

They also basically lost every game in January without him and got the coach fired.

Since Hiller took over, here is the Kings record without him:

3-5
One of those wins is against CBJ. Credit given since he played ten seconds. Should be no credit since it is Columbus.
One of the other wins was a sad SO win over Anaheim.

So that gives us the first game back, new coach bump win over Edmonton. Other two wins are CBJ and ANA. This also includes a 7-0 loss to the friggin' Buffalo Sabres.

4-0 record with him. Including the CBJ game since I included it above. If you want to say 3-0 then that's fine: I'll counter with 2 points in 3 games v. 2 points in 4 games.

We need to stop pretending that he isn't important. This isn't Jeff Carter joining the 2012 Kings type stuff but it is similar in that he helps the lines tremendously since his line is set and forget. Allows Fiala to be moved around the lineup. The PLD/Byfield thing has been dead since that CBJ game. The Kings have been complete trash since he left the lineup.

We also need to stop pretending that this team is/was good because they won 11 straight road games. At the same time, they were losing home games. We've also gone over the schedule before the wheels fell off and how the majority of their wins were against bad-to-average teams, much like after the Gavrikov trade last year.

The team has won 25 games without him. The biggest loss here is Kempe and Mikey.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Looks like Tyler Madden is the only player we still have from the last Toffoli deal. I can totally see Blake reacquiring him at a much higher cost.

 

[Telos]

https://x.com/TheFourthPeriod/status/1762883506105905610?s=20
Kings would be stupid to not trade Roy

I'd be floored if someone gave up a 1st for Walker, but crazier things have happened. I would absolutely give up Roy for a 1st; however, I don't think it is possible for Blake to do so with the noose around his neck.

 

[Statto]

 

[BigKing]

The team has won 25 games without him. The biggest loss here is Kempe and Mikey.

And they lost 19 without him and an additional 10 more in OT/SO. What's the point of trying to downplay him? They instantly looked better with him in the lineup and have gone back to looking like the shitbag team that we've seen in 2024.

Is Kempe more important? Of course. My whole point is that they are completely done without both of them in the event Kempe is out long term. They are mostly done without Arvidsson if Kempe is healthy.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

They'd be a playoff team next season and then ready to enter a long-run as a team with every piece needed to contend for a Stanley Cup, and that would be only a few short years after the fateful decisions to appeas Doughty and trade for Danault and VA and throw in the towel on rebuilding the right way to instead try and turn into the turn of the century Kings.

But who knows, maybe a lot of the ticket holders are impatient and ignorant to the correct ways to build a winning team and complain to their reps with comments like this....

Don’t know your point in quoting me except proving to everyone else that you are infatuated with me….but I still stand by what I said. I get zero satisfaction in following a team who’s most exciting day of the year is the draft. No thanks.

When the Kings made it back to the playoffs in 2010 after an 8-year absence, I threw a party.

 

[Live in the Now]

Durzi was a whipping boy and lots of people wanted rid of him. Revisionism is unnecessary.

 

[Fat Elvis]

Getting to the point where they should trade everyone except Byfeild and Clarke. A proper Reboot.

Sending anything of value to NJ for Toff would be such a moronic move. To quote Will Farrell "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills". They should hide Blake's work phone until their golf season begins in mid April.

 

[YP44]

Don’t know your point in quoting me except proving to everyone else that you are infatuated with me….but I still stand by what I said. I get zero satisfaction in following a team who’s most exciting day of the year is the draft. No thanks.

When the Kings made it back to the playoffs in 2010 after an 8-year absence, I threw a party.

LA should be a playoff team this year even if Kempe and Arvidsson are out for a while. I want them to be a playoff team.

What I do not want is Blake buying rentals to ensure the team gets there. Need to look at the team and be honest if it is worth going all in on. Getting players with team control, sure sign me up.

Durzi was a whipping boy and lots of people wanted rid of him. Revisionism is unnecessary.

I wanted him gone to make room for Spence last year...I would still rather have Spence

 

[Steve Zissou]

On a more upbeat note, I mean who doesn't like ice cream...?

 

[Herby]

Don’t know your point in quoting me except proving to everyone else that you are infatuated with me….but I still stand by what I said. I get zero satisfaction in following a team who’s most exciting day of the year is the draft. No thanks.

When the Kings made it back to the playoffs in 2010 after an 8-year absence, I threw a party.

Well I threw a party when the Kings won the Stanley Cup, but to each his own.

Just pointing out that there are some fans (you are not alone) who don't have the patience to go through a proper rebuild that has a chance to produce a championship, and instead would rather be the turn of the century Kings and lose 80% of your playoff series but at least be able to say "Hey, we made it"

The Kings did not make the playoffs between 2003 and 2009 and during that time the team brought in Kopitar (lottery pick), Doughty (lottery pick), Brown (lottery pick) and Schenn (lottery pick) while fostering an environment that enabled three of those players to take ownership of what ended up being a SC winner, while the other one was traded for a 26 year old who was one of the final pieces.

You and GBH love to say, "well they could be Buffalo or Ottawa" and yes that is true, they could be. But they could also be a perennial contender for championships. There is certainly a wider range of outcomes than being a black hole team that will finish anywhere from 5th to 9th in the conference and lose in round 1 most years while maybe pulling an upset once every few years. But only one of those is a legitimate and proven path to sustained success in the modern NHL.

And the thing is, you are so against being bad and picking high, but this version of the black hole Kings is going to be bad and picking high once 11 and 8 retire, so it only delays the inevitable, except now instead of having your young assets all be similar in age, Clarke and Byfield will be 6-10 years older than the high picks the Kings will have from 2026-2030.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

THe problem with being a 'depth' team instead of a 'high end' team is the loss of middle lineup guys makes you SUPER weak. A team like Edmonton can lose basically ANYONE but McDavid or Draisaitl and basically not skip a beat--the Kings losing TWO 60-point-plus guys has them dead in the water.

You can't downplay Arvidsson. I thought people would see how underrated he was in Nashville having been here but apparently not. And Kempe was our leading scorer at time of injury. Those aren't light losses and in a world where Blake didn't jettison the entire farm for French cupcakes the cheap youth would be able to relatively seamlessly step in like they did that year we went through 2.5 teams worth of dmen. Unfortunately, we're capped out, asset-ed out, and shit out of luck because the window just HAD to open RIGHT THEN and now we're about to be a 1st-and-out playoff team for a few years before missing the playoffs outright again.

 

[YP44]

Well I threw a party when the Kings won the Stanley Cup, but to each his own.

Just pointing out that there are some fans (you are not alone) who don't have the patience to go through a proper rebuild that has a chance to produce a championship, and instead would rather be the turn of the century Kings and lose 80% of your playoff series but at least be able to say "Hey, we made it"

The Kings did not make the playoffs between 2003 and 2009 and during that time the team brought in Kopitar (lottery pick), Doughty (lottery pick), Brown (lottery pick) and Schenn (lottery pick) while fostering an environment that enabled three of those players to take ownership of what ended up being a SC winner, while the other one was traded for a 26 year old who was one of the final pieces.

You and GBH love to say, "well they could be Buffalo or Ottawa" and yes that is true, they could be. But they could also be a perennial contender for championships. There is certainly a wider range of outcomes than being a black hole team that will finish anywhere from 5th to 9th in the conference and lose in round 1 most years while maybe pulling an upset once every few years. But only one of those is a legitimate and proven path to sustained success in the modern NHL.

And the thing is, you are so against being bad and picking high, but this version of the black hole Kings is going to be bad and picking high once 11 and 8 retire, so it only delays the inevitable, except now instead of having your young assets all be similar in age, Clarke and Byfield will be 6-10 years older than the high picks the Kings will have from 2026-2030.

semantics but what do you consider a "lottery" pick. Kopitar was 11th, Brown was 13th OA. I think when teams strip down for rebuild they are looking for top 5 picks as any team not in the playoffs is a lottery team.

Like I said semantics. But for me if it's top 5s there are examples like Hickey and maybe Turcotte. If teams scout right middle picks can hit too.

LA's current roster has a couple of recent top 5 picks. However they switched directions too quickly IMO. Hate to say it but the Ducks re doing it right.

 

[Live in the Now]

I don’t think the Kings switched directions too quickly. I think that because the Kings have a terrible GM they picked out bad trades.

 

[Herby]

semantics but what do you consider a "lottery" pick. Kopitar was 11th, Brown was 13th OA. I think when teams strip down for rebuild they are looking for top 5 picks as any team not in the playoffs is a lottery team.

Like I said semantics. But for me if it's top 5s there are examples like Hickey and maybe Turcotte. If teams scout right middle picks can hit too.

LA's current roster has a couple of recent top 5 picks. However they switched directions too quickly IMO. Hate to say it but the Ducks re doing it right.

Well he said lottery. But I do agree, you need to be picking high in the draft for awhile, long enough where you have foundational pieces established in place to move forward.

None of the Kings young players were established when they moved forward, and it doesn't look like you have any Makar's, Kopitar's or Kane's in the group anyways.

This team needed to be picking near the Top of the 2022 and 2023 drafts, especially 2023.

It wasn't even that long to keep waiting. Byfield is looking like a good 1st line LW for the future, Faber looks like a 1D, Clarke has 1D potential, Vilardi as a 2nd line winger, Anderson a solid 2nd pairing defender. You add to that a high pick in 2022 and especially in the loaded 2023 draft where you probably find your franchise center, and you can say the team was ready to take that step. People act like had the Kings continued the rebuild that it would have taken until 2030 or something, which isn't the case.

I don’t think the Kings switched directions too quickly. I think that because the Kings have a terrible GM they picked out bad trades.

It's quite unusual to turn the page on a rebuild when none of your young players are established.

As far as the trades, they were trying to compete in an extremely narrow window with old players, and thus had to bring in players in their primes that were available, instead of ha ving the luxury of waiting for the right ones (like DL did with Richards and Williams). You weren't winning a SC with Danault as the 2C, you didn't have enough scoring on the wing and you desperately needed a LHD, it just happened that Danault, Fiala and Gavrikov were the ones available, and the cost of trading for players in their primes is always going to be high, because it's usually true contenders trading for guys like this. These all resulted in trades that are not looking like winners for the Kings and resulted in a significant loss of young assets. Had they done a rebuild the right way, none of these holes would have mattered until the team was ready to start competing (probably in 2024-2025 or 2025-2026) but since they had that narrow window, they had to be addressed with whatever was available.

I mean, it's not rocket science why successful teams are not constructed like this. You are to cornered by the age of your best players.

 

[AbsentMojo]

Well he said lottery. But I do agree, you need to be picking high in the draft for awhile, long enough where you have foundational pieces established in place to move forward.

And I know you mean also (since you are the loudest voice criticizing LAK development - which I am as well) that on top of picking high, you DEVELOP your younger players close to, or in positions they were drafted for. This is one of the biggest mistakes of the aborted rebuild.. who knows what Kaliyev or Turcotte wouldve been today had they been treated more like potential gold vs members of a chain gang.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

LA should be a playoff team this year even if Kempe and Arvidsson are out for a while. I want them to be a playoff team.

What I do not want is Blake buying rentals to ensure the team gets there. Need to look at the team and be honest if it is worth going all in on. Getting players with team control, sure sign me up.


I wanted him gone to make room for Spence last year...I would still rather have Spence

Any deal that is to be made, HAS to be a hockey deal....if you are gonna deal a "rental" ala Gavrikov, you have to have some plan in place to resign.....

Dealing a 1st for Tarasenko is just idiotic.....for this team, another team ala Vegas, might not be etc, but this team can't do that,

Well I threw a party when the Kings won the Stanley Cup, but to each his own.

Just pointing out that there are some fans (you are not alone) who don't have the patience to go through a proper rebuild that has a chance to produce a championship, and instead would rather be the turn of the century Kings and lose 80% of your playoff series but at least be able to say "Hey, we made it"

The Kings did not make the playoffs between 2003 and 2009 and during that time the team brought in Kopitar (lottery pick), Doughty (lottery pick), Brown (lottery pick) and Schenn (lottery pick) while fostering an environment that enabled three of those players to take ownership of what ended up being a SC winner, while the other one was traded for a 26 year old who was one of the final pieces.

You and GBH love to say, "well they could be Buffalo or Ottawa" and yes that is true, they could be. But they could also be a perennial contender for championships. There is certainly a wider range of outcomes than being a black hole team that will finish anywhere from 5th to 9th in the conference and lose in round 1 most years while maybe pulling an upset once every few years. But only one of those is a legitimate and proven path to sustained success in the modern NHL.

And the thing is, you are so against being bad and picking high, but this version of the black hole Kings is going to be bad and picking high once 11 and 8 retire, so it only delays the inevitable, except now instead of having your young assets all be similar in age, Clarke and Byfield will be 6-10 years older than the high picks the Kings will have from 2026-2030.

Here's my problem with it. And If I am wrong in my assumption let me know, but you want to be high lottery pick team...for 3-4 years, let's assume starting with the Byfield pick right, then keep doing that, but you ALSO bitch and moan to high heaven that LA can't develop correctly, (again, you being general) so...if the Kings absolutely suck balls at developing, why in the world would you want them to lose to get high picks, if they can't develop them.

That's what I am reading from "collective" you, in that regards, you have no faith in Kings developing players, but you want them to lose, to collect high end talent, that you have no faith they will develop....