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LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

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Herby said:
Adding Vilardi to all my DFS lineups through the rest of the month. Heater incoming.

I wonder how much they spent on the slump buster.

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Velardi looks great tonight- almost scored two morre times
Onl guy i ever saw that handled the puck in tight better than van reimsdyke
Gabe just scored again
 
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Herby said:
GBH,

I have argued these points with you literally dozens of times before, but if you want to go down this road again, ok. Also hilarious that you are accusing me of ducking questions (I've answred multiple times before) when you still won't even answer my simple question. Is it a meritocracy with the Kings hockey-ops department? Is it just a coincidence that all the guys in hockey-ops are Luc and Blake's best friends?

The goaltending thing is simple, if you don't have a capable NHL starter you are not a contender. If you wanted to believe that a team with Cam Talbot, a 36 year old journeyman on his 6th team in six seasons was the answer, that's on you.

Bjornfot was not mishandled by being in the NHL at 19, he was mishandled by being sent to the minors at 21 in favor of the corpse of Alex Edler. Who does this, who has a 1st round pick in the NHL for 2 full seasons and then demotes them to the minors? Is that common, yes or no? Wouldn't it have just made more sense to move on from him at that point? Of course it would have, but this is the Kings.

When Byfield has a season as a dominant as Stutzle's was last year we can say he's a better player. Stutzle would have already answered the Kings long search for finding Kopitar's replacement as the teams 1C. You and your buddy Axl will straw-man this as you guys always do, but it's just a fact, the kid had a 90 point season at 20 years old. Players who have the three year production he had in the first 3 years after the draft almost always turn into star players, true or false?

Every NHL coach is fired, yeah true, but does every one have 0 playoff series wins when spending up to the cap? I don't place as much of the blame on this season on Todd as most do, it's more a management thing, but Todd was not a win by any stretch for this management team. It was another crony hire with Rob Blake hiring his former NHL coach, just like he hired his best friends to all the other positions. Are you really sitting here and saying a HC who won 0 playoff series is a win?

So the LHD hole is just the result of poor drafting and evaluations? Ok, fair point. He also could have addressed that hole by giving up the assets and cap space he gave to two centers, this after using three Top 11 picks on centers in the years before that.

I have asked when the last time a teams who's two highest paid and highest used players were as old as Doughty and Kopitar. It's not some gotcha question GBH, but you refuse to answer it, never once, but then you come on here and say I don't answer your repeated lame water pulling takes. Just like you claimed forever that the Kings didn't use their AHL affiliate for high picks more than any other team, until you were presented facts and then the narrative switched to "There are plenty of ways to develop players" even though the Kings and Nashville are the only teams who insist on mandatory AHL time. But I'm sure you will use the same lame old "But Nemec", which is funny since for one, Nemec is one of the only high picks NJD has sent to the AHL, but also because I never said no players should do AHL time, just that it shouldn't be mandatory, but that is a concept you have never once been able to grasp. I never said the Kings depth pieces were old, they aren't old, they are in their primes without any star players on the roster and two players a combined 70 years old, so again for probably the 587th time, can you cite any example of a team that won a SC with their two best and highest paid players that age?

I'm not bitching about 23 games GBH, I'm bitching about attempting to win a Stanley Cup in a way which has never been successful before. I just don't know how you can look at the dominant teams of the last 20 years and come to the conclusion that building a team by trading 1sts and prospects and not bulding through the draft and drafting multiple star players and having them established as stars before going forward. Pittsburgh didn't end their rebuild until they had Crosby and Malkin, Chicago had Kane and Toews, LA had Kopitar and Doughty. Yet the Kings end their rebuild before a single one of their draft picks was even remotely close to being established? They traded the best player they drafted, traded 1sts in 2022 and 2023 rather than continuing the rebuild and drafting high in those drafts and you are acting like nobody saw this coming? Buddy many of us have two decades on this forum or other Kings forums, we all lived through the Dave Taylor blackhole years and could easily see it was a mistake when the rebuild was gutted and prospects and picks were traded. But now instead of acknowledging that those fact-based concerns are looking more and more valid you are coming at everyone with this MMQB nonsense. There were plenty of people on this forum who were vehemently against ending the rebuild, and for the reasons that have all come to be.

I'm sure this will be met with more incoherent cussing and name calling like it always is, but there you go. Maybe just maybe you can reference a team that won a SC with it's two best players this old or if the Kings are a metitocracy, but I'm not holding my breath.
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All this from my questioning you on MMQB, and you don't even address what I said,

But f*** it, let's go

"Is it a meritocracy with the Kings hockey-ops department? Is it just a coincidence that all the guys in hockey-ops are Luc and Blake's best friends?" Of course it is, all the guys in hockey ops are Luc and Blake's best friends....yea...that's not your bias showing, I am assuming you are talking about Emerson and Murray....tell me, based on your knowledge WHY WOULDN'T THEY BE in their positions, you literally are saying the only reason they have a job, is because Blake likes them, so tell me what makes them unqualified in your eyes?

Goaltending, Ok...Adin Hill 3 teams in 6 years, Kuemper, 5 teams in 10 years, etc,

Bjornfoot, 2 full seasons then minors? Again, FACTS matter 44 games in the AHL his first pro season, 34 total games next year, 1 in AHL rest in NHL, then 70 games NHL, then 50 games in the AHL, they clearly wanted him to work on something, and it never came about....the problem is, you think this is an LA problem, every team in the league has waived former 1st round picks...it's not as rare as you think it is.

Byfield over Stultze, any day of the week, twice on Sundays, doesn't mean Stultze is a bad player, means Byfield is BETTER, tell me, how many playoff points does Stultze have? Since the ultimate goal is playoffs, I want the guy who is going to get me to the playoffs...not just have a good reg season, that's your argument against McClellan isn't it, no playoff wins?

The LHD hole, he addressed it, didn't work out, we have no idea IF, WHEN, or WHO he attempted to trade for, if at all, we can address who he drafted, and who he signed, but yes, let's place blame on not TRADING for a LHD, because he didn't trade for a LHD, makes no matter we don't know who was available, or what the price was, goddamn it he should have done it anyways.

As far as other SC winners, I love how you try to pick it, that they have to be that age and that highest paid, when wait for it...not withstanding goaltenders, there are only THREE GODDAMN PLAYERS THAT ARE OVER 30 on the team....but holy f***, because they are on the team, the team MUST be built around them, because f*** it, if it's not, what the f*** am I talking about, that's your take, I pointed out the ages of the team and your response was....well....last SC winner who had a 36 year old player on it....I mean f***....who the f*** cares, if you have a team that is winning/contending, and one of the players is 40 years old....that means the team was built around the 40 year old right?

You think the Kings aren't a meritocracy.....because....why? Who do you think has 100% earned a spot but isn't playing.....here's a hint....there's no one.

You want to talk about management being an old buddies club, like it's only LA, and just absolutely dismiss the fact that EVERY team does it....f***, look at VAN....entire player development is old Canucks.....Gonchar was brought in as a defensive specialist, you want to say he doesn't have any connections to Rutherford? Cmon man....
 
unicornpig said:
No thanks to Gibson l, he's garbage
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Gibson isn't my first choice. They did send Ranford to scout the Ducks a couple weeks ago.

Big name Goalies available are looking like Saros, Markstrom & Gibson in no particular order. 2 got lit up tonight.

Cheap goalie options may be Martin Jones TO, Alex Nedeljkovic Pit. Probably some others. Are they cheap? Are they actually an improvement?

The big question, is Roy. Will they move him?
 
Devin Setoguchi and Bobby Ryan were clearly better than Kopitar in 2009. They played secondary roles on playoff teams while Kopitar was the 1C on the lousy Kings team, it was his fault the Kings sucked and the Sharks and Ducks were playoff teams because of Ryan and Setoguchi.

I’d also like to add Brandon Aiyuk is better than Justin Jefferson. Chas McCormick is better than Mike Trout oh and how stupid are the Bears going to be if they take Caleb Williams over JJ McCarthy.
 
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The Kings doing a deal based around a Juice for Juice swap with Nashville at least does give the Kings some hope with the hot-goalie route in the playoffs. Saros could steal a round or 2, we just won’t be able to do anything with what we have now. I like Kempe a lot, and that contract is such a huge steal, but a lineup with Saros and Kaliyev replacing Kempe and one of our goalies does make the team better. But the Kings would have to grind out a lot of low scoring games, our offense would be a weakness, but I think it’s better than being as weak as we are in goal
 
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So LD Noah Hanifin is a Pat Brisson client?

Pat Brisson has 5 active contracts valued at $154,107,501 with the Kings. It varies by team, seems like 2 contracts valued between $45-70 Million total is his average with most teams. He does most of his business with Kings, Ducks & Avs*

Has anyone ever wondered if he masterminded the BLuc coup? Pretty sure Kovalchuk was also a client.

*Puckpedia.com

Anyway, I like Noah Hanifin for Clarke's D partner/mentor. Whomever it ends up being, the Kings need to make a serious investment in Clarke's future, get the right partner/mentor. Make it a priority. All in on Byfield and Clarke
 
Herby said:
The Kings doing a deal based around a Juice for Juice swap with Nashville at least does give the Kings some hope with the hot-goalie route in the playoffs. Saros could steal a round or 2, we just won’t be able to do anything with what we have now. I like Kempe a lot, and that contract is such a huge steal, but a lineup with Saros and Kaliyev replacing Kempe and one of our goalies does make the team better. But the Kings would have to grind out a lot of low scoring games, our offense would be a weakness, but I think it’s better than being as weak as we are in goal
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Interesting. Opening up a spot for Kaliyev kills two birds. I am am intrigued
 
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Herby said:
The Kings doing a deal based around a Juice for Juice swap with Nashville at least does give the Kings some hope with the hot-goalie route in the playoffs. Saros could steal a round or 2, we just won’t be able to do anything with what we have now. I like Kempe a lot, and that contract is such a huge steal, but a lineup with Saros and Kaliyev replacing Kempe and one of our goalies does make the team better. But the Kings would have to grind out a lot of low scoring games, our offense would be a weakness, but I think it’s better than being as weak as we are in goal
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Juice is having an off year but so is Saros.
I think it is lateral for this team to lose offense for goaltending unless we do think they are a 2-1 team.

I don’t know what to think of Kaliyev at this point. Is he not that good or is just given an unfair shake?
 
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FSL KINGS said:
Looked up Kaliyev's numbers to see what forwards might be a good value for a swap. Noticed some of the names around him are teams "untouchable" prospects. Had this crazy idea. Maybe toss him in a game & see if Kaliyev & the organization can get back on track & out of the pissing contest.
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naw. a pissing contest maintains the la kings tradition of creating a culture (sans 2012 2015) that foster an unproductive hockey siberia that young players and free agents dont want to come to and management is hardheaded to the teams complete detriment
BAH GAWD WERE RIGHT AND WE'LL SHOW THAT KID
 
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LAKings88 said:
Juice is having an off year but so is Saros.
I think it is lateral for this team to lose offense for goaltending unless we do think they are a 2-1 team.

I don’t know what to think of Kaliyev at this point. Is he not that good or is just given an unfair shake?
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wrong agent. Kazach heritage and not french canadian. also sneers. an obvious behavior problem and bad actor.
truth is we probably wont know until he's traded or is out of the leauge. has a high upside and is talented.
 
Herby said:
Devin Setoguchi and Bobby Ryan were clearly better than Kopitar in 2009. They played secondary roles on playoff teams while Kopitar was the 1C on the lousy Kings team, it was his fault the Kings sucked and the Sharks and Ducks were playoff teams because of Ryan and Setoguchi.

I’d also like to add Brandon Aiyuk is better than Justin Jefferson. Chas McCormick is better than Mike Trout oh and how stupid are the Bears going to be if they take Caleb Williams over JJ McCarthy.
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Why am I not surprised.....Byfield is the better player here, in the here and now, not last year, not 3 years ago, not when they were 2.....RIGHT NOW as of today, he is 100% the better player, complete player, Stutzle might outscore him, 100%, he won't outplay him, but you can't admit that, because then you would have to admit you are wrong.
 
GoldenBearHockey said:
Why am I not surprised.....Byfield is the better player here, in the here and now, not last year, not 3 years ago, not when they were 2.....RIGHT NOW as of today, he is 100% the better player, complete player, Stutzle might outscore him, 100%, he won't outplay him, but you can't admit that, because then you would have to admit you are wrong.
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I left it as neutral, despite Stutzle having the much better career as of now at a more valuable position, while you call it a "clear win", but I am the one who can't admit things, ok sure thing pal.

And do you realize how ridiculous your example is, so because a player is on a better team he is the better player or the "big game player"

It's literally exactly the same situation as Bobby Ryan and Kopitar, please tell me how it's different? Ryan was a winger who finished 4th in scoring on a Ducks playoff team and was able to play in the playoffs. Kopitar was the Kings leading scorer and 1C on a bad team and didn't get a chance to play in the playoffs.

So by your ridiculous logic (possibly the most ridiculous I've ever seen used on this board) Bobby Ryan was better than Anze Kopitar in the summer of 2009. Devin Setoguchi who was a secondary player for a good Sharks team was also better than Kopitar after their D+3 years?

The Hawks are going to suck for a few years, will Bedard not be a big-time player, will you take players from better teams over him since they made the playoffs? That seems to be the case you are arguing here.

You could just say you prefer Byfield as a player and that would be fine, no idea why you had to use such a ridiculously flawed logic.
 
Herby said:
I left it as neutral, despite Stutzle having the much better career as of now at a more valuable position, while you call it a "clear win", but I am the one who can't admit things, ok sure thing pal.

And do you realize how ridiculous your example is, so because a player is on a better team he is the better player or the "big game player"

It's literally exactly the same situation as Bobby Ryan and Kopitar, please tell me how it's different? Ryan was a winger who finished 4th in scoring on a Ducks playoff team and was able to play in the playoffs. Kopitar was the Kings leading scorer and 1C on a bad team and didn't get a chance to play in the playoffs.

So by your ridiculous logic (possibly the most ridiculous I've ever seen used on this board) Bobby Ryan was better than Anze Kopitar in the summer of 2009. Devin Setoguchi who was a secondary player for a good Sharks team was also better than Kopitar after their D+3 years?

The Hawks are going to suck for a few years, will Bedard not be a big-time player, will you take players from better teams over him since they made the playoffs? That seems to be the case you are arguing here.

You could just say you prefer Byfield as a player and that would be fine, no idea why you had to use such a ridiculously flawed logic.
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Same logic you use as a coach though in regards to McClellan...but now it's flawed?

Again, Byfield is the BETTER PLAYER right now.....BTW, are we saying LA is the better team to Ottawa? Because by your logic, we should be following Ottawa's path.....
 
LAKings88 said:
Juice is having an off year but so is Saros.
I think it is lateral for this team to lose offense for goaltending unless we do think they are a 2-1 team.

I don’t know what to think of Kaliyev at this point. Is he not that good or is just given an unfair shake?
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I don't know if it's fair value in the big picture, especially with Kempe's contract, and you are taking away a goal-scorer from a team that lacks high-end talent. But the Kings aren't looking big picture in any of these deals. This is the type of move you have to make when you are trying to compete in such a narrow window with two old players carrying much of the load. Just like why the Fiala trade was fine after they committed to this odd strategy, ok in the micro but terrible in the macro.

I just don't see how a team that isn't going to light anyone up offensively can expect to win with this type of goaltending, it has to be addressed and this is a deal that works money wise and gives the Kings the answer in goal for at least this years playoffs and next years. And that is all the Kings should be looking at.

I think Saros+Kaliyev makes the Kings a more dangerous playoff team this season and next than Kempe/Talbot or whatever bum is available at the deadline.
 
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GoldenBearHockey said:
Same logic you use as a coach though in regards to McClellan...but now it's flawed?

Again, Byfield is the BETTER PLAYER right now.....BTW, are we saying LA is the better team to Ottawa? Because by your logic, we should be following Ottawa's path.....
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No it's not the same logic, a coach is judged by the success of his overall team and how they perform. Blaming a 21 year old star player for his teams failures while giving a secondary player credit for a better teams success is an extremely flawed logic.

But just to confirm by your own logic Setoguchi and Ryan were better players than Kopitar in the summer of 2009 right? Kopi had 0 playoff games while they had been secondary pieces on playoff teams.

LA is better than Ottawa right now, Ottawa is closer to being a true cup contender based on how cup winners have been historically constructed. The same reason why Chicago was closer to a cup than Nashville in 2008 despite Nashville making the playoffs, or why LA was closer to a cup in 2009 than Columbus was, despite Columbus making the playoffs as a black hole team.

Your a gambling man, right. Want to do a futures bet on who wins the cup in the next, lets say 5 years? If neither team does it's a wash, if one team does the other one pays out the other person. You can have LA and I'll take Ottawa.
 
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The idea of a juice for juice swap is total insanity IMO.

You're HOPING Saros returns to form after the trade.

Kempe is literally the King's leading scorer right now (71pts pace).

Nashville would have to add in that deal. I don't even see how it makes sense for them.

On the other hand, I would gladly send Fiala back to Nashville :)
 
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johnjm22 said:
The idea of a juice for juice swap is total insanity IMO.

You're HOPING Saros returns to form after the trade.

Kempe is literally the King's leading scorer right now (71pts pace).

Nashville would have to add in that deal. I don't even see how it makes sense for them.

On the other hand, I would gladly send Fiala back to Nashville :)
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Agreed 100%
And yet, it seems like such a Blake move doesn't it. He'd probably add a #1 or a 2025 #2 pick to send to Nashville as well. Not to mention immediately extending Saros for another 6 years at top $$$.
 
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