Rumor: Kypreos says Matthews will be 13.5M (Haggling over term)

[Divine]

Not exactly. Tavares didn't say no to any trades as far as I remember. He told the Islanders he had every intention on signing with them at season's end. They took him at his word and he played them. If I'm the Leafs, I don't give Matthews that luxury. I give him a hard deadline (which imho should have been 6/28 before the NMC kicked in). But, to your point, Matthews could truly screw us and not agree to any trade and leave on awful terms. And if he is the type of player who would do that, is he truly the type of player you want to build your team around? It's a hard decision but the Leafs put themselves in this situation. I just don't see how caving to Matthews and giving him everything he wants without comprise is healthy on multiple fronts. If Matthews truly wants to be a Leaf, he should prove it.

And, I never said that "him leaving for nothing is more disastrous than signing any contract." I simply said that Lou pushing to sign Tavares with the Islanders was much different than him pushing to sign him with the Leafs. And, even the Islanders had a limit on how much they would pay Tavares. Supposedly it was the Sharks who went off the rails and offered JT $13 mil a pop. The rumor was the Isles $11.5 and the Leafs obviously $11. Lou wasn't insane enough to pay Tavares $13.5 for him to stay on the Island.

Every player has a price. Do I think the Leafs blow it up with Matthews over 13.5 x 4? No. They will take the hit. But I personally think it is a mistake to not resent the culture right here, right now. We've seen enough. But I don't own the Leafs.

Where is the incentive for other teams to trade for him if he wants 13M+ from every team and is a UFA after the season?

If we follow the narrative here, which is Matthews is a money first, team second player - why would he have any value in a trade, especially as a pending UFA?

 

[Boxscore]

is trading Matthews really something on the table? I could imagine maybe a deal for Werenski?

Not likely. This is the fan in me talking, not Treliving and the MLSE board. The time to trade Matthews was before 7/1... and even then you'd take a hit on value, which I may have done. There's just something about Matthews that doesn't feel right to me. It's almost as if he has some Ricky Williams in him where he's aloof at times and his priorities are slightly jacked. I also question how much he truly loves Toronto and how driven he is by winning a Cup.

 

[Boxscore]

Where is the incentive for other teams to trade for him if he wants 13M+ from every team and is a UFA after the season?

If we follow the narrative here, which is Matthews is a money first, team second player - why would he have any value in a trade, especially as a pending UFA?

I don't disagree. But there are other teams out there (like the Sharks with Tavares) who are so hard up for a marquee player, they'll pay Matthews anything he wants just so they can sell more tickets, merch, and fill the arena. And, maybe that's the Leafs. I just find it hard to believe how much of a one-way street this has been with him. And I don't think we should be the team acting like a bottom-feeder desperate for talent.

But my concern is the Leafs, not other teams. Depending on how this deal goes down -- and how Matthews plays this year with all the additions -- I will likely be set with my opinion of him. From what I've seen to date, he's not the type of player or person who you win championships with unless you have enough resources to surround him with a hefty supporting cast.

My main concern stems from his greed and absolute reluctance to do the Leafs any favors, not from his talent. Yes, I think he can play better, be more consistent, and he must up his game in the playoffs. But if he was willing to work with the Leafs and commit long-term, I'd be content with being able to continue surrounding him with top talent in the hopes that one year him and the team put it all together and win a Cup.

 

[Mr Positive]

I don't disagree. But there are other teams out there (like the Sharks with Tavares) who are so hard up for a marquee player, they'll pay Matthews anything he wants just so they can sell more tickets, merch, and fill the arena. And, maybe that's the Leafs. I just find it hard to believe how much of a one-way street this has been with him. And I don't think we should be the team acting like a bottom-feeder desperate for talent.

But my concern is the Leafs, not other teams. Depending on how this deal goes down -- and how Matthews plays this year with all the additions -- I will likely be set with my opinion of him. From what I've seen to date, he's not the type of player or person who you win championships with unless you have enough resources to surround him with a hefty supporting cast.

My main concern stems from his greed and absolute reluctance to do the Leafs any favors, not from his talent. Yes, I think he can play better, be more consistent, and he must up his game in the playoffs. But if he was willing to work with the Leafs and commit long-term, I'd be content with being able to continue surrounding him with top talent in the hopes that one year him and the team put it all together and win a Cup.

it seems like any anti-Matthews sentiment is mostly driven by the greed angle. But, isn't it possible he's not really greedy? The big comparison driving it is of course MacKinnon. Isn't it possible that MacKinnon just gave an especially good bargain to the Avs? There is reason to believe that the cap is about to go crazy in terms of year to year gains, and so asking for long term is asking a lot. If the cap gains by like 4-5 million a year for several years in a row, then having top salaries around 14 million might be about right. We definitely shouldn't be comparing whatever Matthews deal we see vs deals signed many years ago like the McDavid deal, and we should expect he would get a raise over the last deal.

Like for instance, Matthews current deal was signed at 14.64% of the cap. If the projection is a 10 million rise in a couple years, that would be 13.69 million AAV. It does seem he's pushing for every dollar, but these elite players deserve it really. The only depressing part of it is that Nylander said he would take less if other people did, and that's a kick in the teeth, and also kind of unfair to Matthews imo.

 

[Boxscore]

it seems like any anti-Matthews sentiment is mostly driven by the greed angle. But, isn't it possible he's not really greedy? The big comparison driving it is of course MacKinnon. Isn't it possible that MacKinnon just gave an especially good bargain to the Avs? There is reason to believe that the cap is about to go crazy in terms of year to year gains, and so asking for long term is asking a lot. If the cap gains by like 4-5 million a year for several years in a row, then having top salaries around 14 million might be about right. We definitely shouldn't be comparing whatever Matthews deal we see vs deals signed many years ago like the McDavid deal, and we should expect he would get a raise over the last deal.

Like for instance, Matthews current deal was signed at 14.64% of the cap. If the projection is a 10 million rise in a couple years, that would be 13.69 million AAV. It does seem he's pushing for every dollar, but these elite players deserve it really. The only depressing part of it is that Nylander said he would take less if other people did, and that's a kick in the teeth, and also kind of unfair to Matthews imo.

No, he's greedy.

You can say MacKinnon gave the Avs a nice bargain, and he did, but that's what true leaders do on teams that are blessed with other star players who need to be paid. The Lightning players all took less to stay together. And MacKinnon wasn't the only one on the Avs who did -- Rantanen and Makar both also took less than they could have scratched and clawed for.

Even when Sid and Geno signed their massive deals, they signed for max term, so there was a point where their deals became team-friendly. It's not only the cap hit with Matthews and Marner, it's their obsession with short deals so they can keep maximizing cap % while other team's superstars commit long-term.

And you use Matthews current deal as the litmus test, but we've seen how that's turned out -- 1 playoff round win in 7 years. So continuing to pay Matthews and Marner those extreme cap % is a proven recipe for disaster. And there's no guarantee that the cap jumps 10 mil in a couple of years. The economy is awful and projects to get even worse. What if it does and the cap doesn't go up as much as projected?

Even if it does in 2 years, in 3 years the Leafs need to start this song and dance all over again if Matthews only signs for 4 years. See how that's problematic?

I also see the Nylander thing is a positive tbh. The fact that he's come out and stated that he's willing to take less if everyone else is, shows he cares about the team and truly wants to be here. Why aren't Matthews and Marner stepping up and saying, "Cool, let's all do this!" Because of greed.

 

[Seanaconda]

Eichel is a shit comparison for Hossa and a worse player.

Durant was who I was comparing Hossa to . Durant is like a better Hossa in that he went and went championship hunting.

 

[keglu]

The points per game isn't as relevant if the team plays a different style. That's why the position on the team is more accurate. Colorado was a high scoring all offense team, they had lots of players near a PPG during their run, 4 players over a PPG.

Mackinnon has a better PPG than Crosby in the playoffs because they played different games and different team styles. Not many people would say Mackinnon is better in the playoffs than Crosby.

Colorado all offense team scored 3 fewer goals and allowed 19 fewer goals than Tronto in RS that year...

 

[RRhoads]

Sakic and Fedorov sure didn't care about winning when they chased the money from the Rangers and Hurricanes.

Everyone knew Red Wings would match the offersheet, including Fedorov. Fact is, the Red Wings stated they would match any offersheet before he signed.

 

[keglu]

And the Cap 2 years prior was not the same.

How can you compare everything but the cap percentage?

Matthews did not sign in the same off season as McDavid, but people feel like he did for some reason.

It’s like comparing Mackinnon’s 12.6 and saying it’s horrible because his stats are worse than McDavid.

There is 1 year difference between contracts. You can suddently make it 2 years beacuse of reasons. At it translates to 600 or 300k per year depending how you look at it.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

There's no way he's asking for 13.5 I don't believe it , surely there's a mistake

 

[Leaf Fans]

There's no way he's asking for 13.5 I don't believe it , surely there's a mistake

Kypreos thinks he is asking for 13.5. No one knows what he is asking for, but Kypreos' guess is as good as anyone's.

 

[Fatass]

Kypreos thinks he is asking for 13.5. No one knows what he is asking for, but Kypreos' guess is as good as anyone's.

Exactly! We don’t know if Matthews has even made a proposal to the Leafs. It’s just as likely the Leafs made a proposal with 13.5 per and Matthews said no.

 

[Funk21]

To be clear I think very few here are contending that he is not deserving. I think the gripe is that he is haggling term and, there are very few superstar UFA contracts, if any, that aren't max term. This tells most everything they need to know about his intentions.

I’ll disagree with you on your first point. I think the media has talked us into the belief a deal in the 13-14 range is fair-I think this is completely outrageous. If he was in a smaller maker area I think he contract would be starting in 12’s at most.

As for your second point, the term that’s where the rub is. Not only does he want outrageous dollars but he wants short term which very much tells me he has no loyalty to this team or the market.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Kypreos thinks he is asking for 13.5. No one knows what he is asking for, but Kypreos' guess is as good as anyone's.

You do know that guy is a massive Leafs troll and was likely being sarcastic right?

 

[Leaf Fans]

You do know that guy is a massive Leafs troll and was likely being sarcastic right?

Now, he doesn't have to be.

 

[BLONG7]

Not likely. This is the fan in me talking, not Treliving and the MLSE board. The time to trade Matthews was before 7/1... and even then you'd take a hit on value, which I may have done. There's just something about Matthews that doesn't feel right to me. It's almost as if he has some Ricky Williams in him where he's aloof at times and his priorities are slightly jacked. I also question how much he truly loves Toronto and how driven he is by winning a Cup.

His actions seem to say, he is not driven by a Cup, and seems to want to leave within a couple of years.....you are bang on, the time to trade him was before 7/1 but Tre just took the job....too much to deal with in his first few weeks.....
Matthews has all the leverage, crazy Dubas did this to the team....

 

[Arthur Morgan]

after his 60 goal season and getting his 2nd rocket + Lindsay and Hart. Id have agreed its worth it. but with his wrist injury always an issue. he's just never at 100%.

not sure after last season which was still impressive given he wasnt 100% but I dont think 13+m for a Matthews who cant get back to 100% is fair on the teams side.

feels like he's more so on the greedy side. but hey thats his right to treat the NHL as a business first, winning second. just sucks as a fan knowing he likely will never leave anything on the table to try and help the team.....

also if he gets this kinda aav and its low term then he's really not worth having. you will never save on his contract as your suppose to do as the cap rises his % will lower

 

[TS Quint]

it seems like any anti-Matthews sentiment is mostly driven by the greed angle. But, isn't it possible he's not really greedy? The big comparison driving it is of course MacKinnon. Isn't it possible that MacKinnon just gave an especially good bargain to the Avs? There is reason to believe that the cap is about to go crazy in terms of year to year gains, and so asking for long term is asking a lot. If the cap gains by like 4-5 million a year for several years in a row, then having top salaries around 14 million might be about right. We definitely shouldn't be comparing whatever Matthews deal we see vs deals signed many years ago like the McDavid deal, and we should expect he would get a raise over the last deal.

Like for instance, Matthews current deal was signed at 14.64% of the cap. If the projection is a 10 million rise in a couple years, that would be 13.69 million AAV. It does seem he's pushing for every dollar, but these elite players deserve it really. The only depressing part of it is that Nylander said he would take less if other people did, and that's a kick in the teeth, and also kind of unfair to Matthews imo.

The problem is term see post 1013:

"An almost $90m cap is pretty ambitious to try an make your point. Then what? Do we add what Matthews is going to make in the first 3-5 years of his NEXT contract so we can count apples to apples and talk about an 8 year period for each player?

Going by the approximate $5m/year raise in the cap you predict let's say over let's just call it a 4 year contract that puts the cap at about $108.5m X 15.1% (assuming he maintains value) the next 4 years will be $16.3835m/ year. That gives Matthews a $119,454,000 x 8 year contract bringing his 8 year AAV to $14,931,750 and a CH% 16.9% Vs McKinnon's 15.1%"

Generally people are missing out on how much the short terms of Matthews contract demands are worth. It's a big impact.

 

[CanadienShark]

Durant was who I was comparing Hossa to . Durant is like a better Hossa in that he went and went championship hunting.

Gotcha, I misunderstood you.

 

[Divine]

There is 1 year difference between contracts. You can suddently make it 2 years beacuse of reasons. At it translates to 600 or 300k per year depending how you look at it.

McDavid signed after his second year, Matthews signed in his third.

It’s a two season difference.

 

[Despote]

McDavid signed after his second year, Matthews signed in his third.

It’s a two season difference.

It doesn't matter when it was signed, it matters when the contract starts. The GMs and agents aren't idiots who don't realize that cap goes up every year (pre-covid).

 

[Divine]

It doesn't matter when it was signed, it matters when the contract starts. The GMs and agents aren't idiots who don't realize that cap goes up every year (pre-covid).

Of course it matters when it was signed.

 

[Despote]

Of course it matters when it was signed.

If the landscape/projections changed drastically between the contracts were signed, sure. Otherwise, no.

 

[Seanaconda]

Gotcha, I misunderstood you.

All good I saw how I wasn't clear enough responding

 

[Divine]

If the landscape/projections changed drastically between the contracts were signed, sure. Otherwise, no.

It did. The cap went up over 8.5% from the time McDavid signed to when Matthews signed. On average it was going up 2% a year the years prior.