Rumor: Kypreos says Matthews will be 13.5M (Haggling over term)

[mkatcherin00]

"What is 1 or 2 million in cap space...?" A lot, in a hard cap league, especially when you have multiple stars to pay. If Tavares, Matthews, and Marner all took 2 million less, we likely would have won more than 1 round in 7 years with them as our core. That 5-6 million extra would have gotten us another impact player or a couple of upgraded depth pieces. More importantly, it gets them more talent to help shoulder the load.

If there was no hard cap, we wouldn't care if the Leafs paid these guy 50 million a year. It's not about the dollars, it's about the cap space and the ability (or inability) to ice a legitimate Cup contender.

And, Matthews is the "real deal" to an extent. He is an elite goal scorer and has put up some nice numbers. But he lacks leadership, character, is a headache with contracts, and he comes up small in the playoffs. If Matthews was all that, how come he has only won 1 playoff round in 7 years even while surrounded by multiple superstars, including a high-priced UFA prize like Tavares to help relieve the burden of him carrying the team up the middle?

Look, if you are Connor McDavid scoring 150+ and packing your trophy case with multiple Harts, Art Rosses, and Rockets every year... you can walk into a negotiation and demand anything you want... on your terms. But when you are coming off an 85 point season and have disappointed in the playoffs religiously, you need to slow your role a bit. The fans need to stop talking about Matthews like he's McDavid or prime Crosby or Ovechkin. That's the problem. Connor McDavid doesn't have an 85 point "down year" or a 0.88 PPG in the playoffs.


I thought you were classifying MacKinnon as a "passenger" and I was responding to that. If I was mistaken, my apologies.

150 Points dont matter how is McDavids defensive game? Does he pk. Is he better than zero in his playoff career

 

[drktmplr12]

150 Points dont matter how is McDavids defensive game? Does he pk. Is he better than zero in his playoff career

Why bring up PK like its part of the equation? AM has played short handed for 30 minutes in 7 years

 

[psycat]

To be clear I think very few here are contending that he is not deserving. I think the gripe is that he is haggling term and, there are very few superstar UFA contracts, if any, that aren't max term. This tells most everything they need to know about his intentions.

Nvm, derail.

 

[Divine]

Clearly because McKinnon's individual achievements have led to greater team success....why is that difficult to grasp?

Only when he plays on a better team. Remove both Matthews and Mackinnon from the Cup winning Avs and the Avs clearly the better team.

Mackinnon’s individual stats on the Avs (third in scoring) is like Nylander’s individual stats on the Leafs. Imagine people comparing Nylander to Makar.

When he signed his contract he was 11th in PPG after hot start and was already slowing down.
McDavid won Art Ross in his second season by margin of 10 points. 1st is not comparable to 11th.
So no, his demands were not reasonable, 100 points in 16/17 (1 90+ points player) is not comparable to 100 points in 18/19 (11 90+ points players)

And the Cap 2 years prior was not the same.

How can you compare everything but the cap percentage?

Matthews did not sign in the same off season as McDavid, but people feel like he did for some reason.

It’s like comparing Mackinnon’s 12.6 and saying it’s horrible because his stats are worse than McDavid.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Only when he plays on a better team. Remove both Matthews and Mackinnon from the Cup winning Avs and the Avs clearly the better team.

Mackinnon’s individual stats on the Avs (third in scoring) is like Nylander’s individual stats on the Leafs. Imagine people comparing Nylander to Makar.

Career playoff production:
Mackinnon 77 GP - 44 G, 100 Pts
Matthews 50 GP - 22 G, 44 Pts

Acting like MacKinnon's simply been a passenger on a dominant team and ignoring his actual production seems odd. He clearly has shown to be much more productive in the playoffs compared to Matthews, even if you want to ignore the "team success" aspect.

Quite frankly, Matthews' playoff production has been quite underwhelming in comparison to his "peers". He's closer to Stamkos come playoff time than any of the guys who actually produce at elite levels. To act like the difference in production between Matthews and MacKinnon is purely team-related is ridiculous.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Only when he plays on a better team. Remove both Matthews and Mackinnon from the Cup winning Avs and the Avs clearly the better team.

Mackinnon’s individual stats on the Avs (third in scoring) is like Nylander’s individual stats on the Leafs. Imagine people comparing Nylander to Makar.

You are making the common layman's mistake of making linear statistical comparisons that are devoid of context.

All three of Marner, Mathews and Nylander are perimeter players who do not play in the dirty areas and do not drive the puck to the net. Mackinnon terrifies defenders with his speed and aggression whereas Marner, Mathews and Nylander settle for what their opponent gives them instead of grabbing them by the horns and taking it. This is why Mackinnon is a Stanley Cup winner and the Maple Leafs are perennial playoff jokes.

 

[centipede2233]

I think the leafs should wait until next summer. Matthews had a down year and an injury. he has something to prove To be the highest paid player. Cause if you sign him now and matthews has a 35 goal year with the same nagging wrist injury, it’s a big yikes! And if nylander wants to get paid, he has to show he can be a constant 40 goal player.

People think matthews has all the leverage but he really doesn’t. Not many teams can afford a 13-14 million dollar player. Also for those teams that can, they are not contenders and most can’t do the front loaded bonuses the leafs can. Your options next summer for matthews is like Columbus? Detroit? Buffalo? Philly? I mean none of these teams are contenders and they are not locations where Matthews can maximize endorsement deals or big city nightlife like Toronto.

 

[Nothingbutglass]

Off season pedantic Leafs fans are the worst.

 

[Boxscore]

150 Points dont matter how is McDavids defensive game? Does he pk. Is he better than zero in his playoff career

Do you even believe this? Are we really comparing McDavid and his 153 points to Matthews and his 85... with the difference being "How about McDavid's defense?" Lmao. We can have this conversation the minute Matthews wins a Selke and turns into Patrice Bergeron. Until then, neither player has sniffed a Selke in their careers but one is already consider a Top-10 player all-time and the other just scored 85 points. Auston Matthews is being paid to score goals, win Art Rosses, and win in the playoffs -- not to mimic Ondrej Palat. The excuses fans make to justify Matthews greed are mindboggling.

 

[Fatass]

no kidding. they walked him to free agency. gave him the 8 year price on a 5 year term. all the money up front. almost all in signing bonuses. gave him a ntc so the front office has no leverage. they gave him everything.

And the GM who gave AM his last contract is now in Pittsburgh. I wonder if that GM is one of the many who goes after AM July 1, 2024?

 

[PainForShane]

And the GM who gave AM his last contract is now in Pittsburgh. I wonder if that GM is one of the many who goes after AM July 1, 2024?

He has to somehow get rid of Petry's contract, pay a first (or equivalent) to get rid of Granlund, and most likely decide to prioritize Matthews over Guentzel (which I think most GMs would do). Petry's contract will be difficult to move (15 team no trade), the other two things seem mostly straightforward and shouldn't be too difficult if Dubas decides that's what he wants to do.

In other words, if Matthews gets to UFA it's not entirely unlikely, let's see if Dubas decides to make the necessary moves. If so, GAME ON

 

[TS Quint]

How is that unfair? I'm using the stats they had before the contract was signed or do those not matter anymore? Not everyone has access to the crystal ball you do when negotiating contracts. You negotiate based on what they have done, not what your crystal ball tells you.

You don't think Eichel or McDavid get more if they sign after their third seasons?

I think the Leafs would have got Matthews cheaper if they re-signed him after his second year, but Dubas claimed he learned "if you have time, use it" from Lou so he wanted to wait it out until the player was on a ~50G/50A 100 point pace to sign the contract. After McDavid signed 12.5M x 8 after a 100 point season, of course his demands were reasonable.

You also keep ignoring that Matthews signed on a higher cap than both McDavid and Eichel. So you mislead the conversation in your direction on every turn and still you can't make a good argument.

He also signed for 3 less years. Matthews made out like a bandit. He was over paid and under termed. There's no doubt about it. Good for him. He's reaching all of his NHL aspirations.

 

[TS Quint]

My sole point in referencing MacKinnon in the first place was to suggest that players like him and Matthews are essentially peers in terms of being top five centers in the league, and their salaries, by cap percentage, would be roughly comparable. Meaning, if you pay Auston Matthews 13.5 AAV, it's not really that unprecedented when you adjust for the cap increase when his contract kicks in.

It wasn't intended to get into some granular comparison of individual achievements or team achievements.

An almost $90m cap is pretty ambitious to try an make your point. Then what? Do we add what Matthews is going to make in the first 3-5 years of his NEXT contract so we can count apples to apples and talk about an 8 year period for each player?

Going by the approximate $5m/year raise in the cap you predict let's say over let's just call it a 4 year contract that puts the cap at about $108.5m X 15.1% (assuming he maintains value) the next 4 years will be $16.3835m/ year. That gives Matthews a $119,454,000 x 8 year contract bringing his 8 year AAV to $14,931,750 and a CH% 16.9% Vs McKinnon's 15.1%.

 

[Divine]

You are making the common layman's mistake of making linear statistical comparisons that are devoid of context.

All three of Marner, Mathews and Nylander are perimeter players who do not play in the dirty areas and do not drive the puck to the net. Mackinnon terrifies defenders with his speed and aggression whereas Marner, Mathews and Nylander settle for what their opponent gives them instead of grabbing them by the horns and taking it. This is why Mackinnon is a Stanley Cup winner and the Maple Leafs are perennial playoff jokes.

Mackinnon is a Stanley Cup winner because of Makar, not because he carried them. How many more points did Makar score than him as a d-man?

If Rielly turned into Makar and the Leafs win with Matthews being 3rd on the team in scoring - is he now a better player?

 

[Despote]

It's nice to see Matthews is committed to not win in Toronto.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Off season pedantic Leafs fans are the worst.

In what way are they worse than off season pedantic fans of any other team?

 

[ACLEVERNAME]

I hope he takes them to the cleaners. Enough with this bullshit. Let justice be served.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

They told Hyman, Nurse, and Kane

Not sure how this makes sense given Nurse is one of the most overpaid players in the league . Don’t get me wrong he’s a solid player but that’s a nasty contract . I thought even Oiler fans agreed with this .

 

[Divine]

Not sure how this makes sense given Nurse is one of the most overpaid players in the league . Don’t get me wrong he’s a solid player but that’s a nasty contract . I thought even Oiler fans agreed with this .

All 3 of those players went to the highest bidder

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

I hope he takes them to the cleaners. Enough with this bullshit. Let justice be served.

Not an overly clever retort here . Also what is this specific bullshit you speak of

 

[Boxscore]

Mackinnon is a Stanley Cup winner because of Makar, not because he carried them. How many more points did Makar score than him as a d-man?

If Rielly turned into Makar and the Leafs win with Matthews being 3rd on the team in scoring - is he now a better player?

This is nonsense. You're doing everything in your power to reduce MacKinnon to build up Matthews because he has 1 playoff win in 7 years.

During the Cup run, MacKinnon scored 24 points in 20 GP. That's still 1.2 PPG. Yes, Makar played out of his mind, but MacKinnon still delivered at a high level. And, of course you're also not considering that Kadri missed games and MacKinnon was the only high-end centerman the opposition had to focus on. If you are calling a player who scored 1.2 PPG during a Cup run in an all-important 1C role a "passenger" I cannot take you seriously tbh.

Are we going to somehow penalize MacKinnon because he has Makar, Rantanen, and Landeskog on his team? Yet, pretend Matthews hasn't been blessed with a star-studded cast in Marner, Tavares, Nylander, and Rielly? Really? Let's not make it sound like Matthews is 1986 Mario Lemieux who is stuck trying to carry his team all by himself.

Matthews career PPG in the playoffs is 0.88. This is a fact. He's also been surrounded by elite talent over the years and a future HHOF coach. Also a fact. And, other than Crosby with Malkin, I can't think of another recent champion 1C who actually had a 2C like Tavares to help shoulder the burden up the middle. Toews? Nope. Kopitar? Nope. Backstrom? I guess with Kuznetsov. Heck, last year Matthews had Tavares and a Conn Smythe winner in ROR to share duties up the middle. And, unlike Crosby who has often had to carry his line, Matthews always has an elite winger by his side. Honestly, there's zero excuses for Matthews' shortcomings in the playoffs... other than he's just come up rather small. Period.

Trying to diminish Nate MacKinnon in order to prop Matthews is an awful look.

 

[Leaf Fans]

It's nice to see Matthews is committed to not win in Toronto.

Has hasn't committed not to win with any team.

 

[TS Quint]

To be clear I think very few here are contending that he is not deserving. I think the gripe is that he is haggling term and, there are very few superstar UFA contracts, if any, that aren't max term. This tells most everything they need to know about his intentions.

I'm contending he's not deserving. More resigned to the Leafs caving in again.

 

[Boxscore]

I'm contending he's not deserving. More resigned to the Leafs caving in again.

Ditto.

 

[Nothingbutglass]

In what way are they worse than off season pedantic fans of any other team?

I've never met any? Always leafs fans, so by volume much worse.