Rumor: Kypreos says Matthews will be 13.5M (Haggling over term)

[mkatcherin00]

they should have told nurse and campbell.

They told Hyman, Nurse, and Kane

 

[keglu]

How is that unfair? I'm using the stats they had before the contract was signed or do those not matter anymore? Not everyone has access to the crystal ball you do when negotiating contracts. You negotiate based on what they have done, not what your crystal ball tells you.

You don't think Eichel or McDavid get more if they sign after their third seasons?

I think the Leafs would have got Matthews cheaper if they re-signed him after his second year, but Dubas claimed he learned "if you have time, use it" from Lou so he wanted to wait it out until the player was on a ~50G/50A 100 point pace to sign the contract. After McDavid signed 12.5M x 8 after a 100 point season, of course his demands were reasonable.

You also keep ignoring that Matthews signed on a higher cap than both McDavid and Eichel. So you mislead the conversation in your direction on every turn and still you can't make a good argument.

When he signed his contract he was 11th in PPG after hot start and was already slowing down.
McDavid won Art Ross in his second season by margin of 10 points. 1st is not comparable to 11th.
So no, his demands were not reasonable, 100 points in 16/17 (1 90+ points player) is not comparable to 100 points in 18/19 (11 90+ points players)

 

[keglu]

The cap went up 4 million. The percentage is different

Sure there is 4m difference between cap when contracts were signed and 2m when they actually started so thats 600k or 300k difference on 15% contract.

 

[AvroArrow]

In Oiler circles, McDavid and Drai are already telling teammates they want to win there and are willing to take a discount. You need that type of culture.

Agreed. If that's not happening in TO, I don't think this team ever wins. The mindset just isn't right. Everyone should buy in to the team 1st mentality, that should be the goal. I want great players who want to win and put the team 1st. Not great players that put their paycheck first and are willing to compromise with the ultimate goal.

 

[Zur En Arrh]

Both are booking first chance. Zero percent chance they win there. Zero percent chance drai repeats what he's done without mcd so that contract is going to be hilarious. Edmonton has as much chance of winning a cup in the next decade as marner leading the league in fighting majors next year....0%

 

[Funk21]

As somebody pointed out that other than AM’s miracle season the guy has only broken 80 points twice in 7 year NHL career. That being 85 and 80 points. In what alternate reality are we living in that this moron should get 13.5 for 5,6 or even 7 years. I have said this before I would rather trade this perennial loser than again overpay him and allow him to dictate terms.

 

[Nothingbutglass]

Both are booking first chance. Zero percent chance they win there. Zero percent chance drai repeats what he's done without mcd so that contract is going to be hilarious. Edmonton has as much chance of winning a cup in the next decade as marner leading the league in fighting majors next year....0%

Is that better than the odds of Nylander and Matthews resigning with the Leafs?

 

[drktmplr12]

It's very easy for us to say "don't maximize your earnings and take a huge discount" because to us the money he makes is unfathomable. However, if someone were to ask you to take a cut on your pay forq the company's sake, would you do it?

It's all relative. I've found the more money that I make the more my lifestyle follows that. When I bought my current house I was making about 5x less than I do now and my wife was making 1/2 of what she currently does. As our incomes have grown our expenses have also grown at a similar pace. I'm sure it's the same for guys making millions.

75k compared to 50k is a big deal. 150k compared to 100k less so. 500k vs 750k less. 150m vs 100m there is virtually no new avenues open to someone.

All are differences of +50%. Life style stops improving substantially after you reach the top 1 percent of incomes, about $600k. Moreso at $10m/yr. Unless you are in the billionaire class.

You can't compare traditional employment to professional sport contracts, either. They are substantially different circumstances and objectives.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

As somebody pointed out that other than AM’s miracle season the guy has only broken 80 points twice in 7 year NHL career. That being 85 and 80 points. In what alternate reality are we living in that this moron should get 13.5 for 5,6 or even 7 years. I have said this before I would rather trade this perennial loser than again overpay him and allow him to dictate terms.

I think the playoff production is the bigger issue than the regular season production. If you took his regular season production and combined it with Mackinnon's playoff production, then suddenly his asking price seems a lot more reasonable. But when you factor in his playoff production to the fact he's only had one 100 point season and suddenly you start to wonder why he's supposed to be the highest paid player in hockey.

On a separate note, I also think it's a red flag that he seems to just want a very short term. That doesn't really scream "team player who wants to win with current team". It screams "cares about maxing out career earnings".

 

[drktmplr12]

To be clear I think very few here are contending that he is not deserving. I think the gripe is that he is haggling term and, there are very few superstar UFA contracts, if any, that aren't max term. This tells most everything they need to know about his intentions.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

To be clear I think very few here are contending that he is not deserving. I think the gripe is that he is haggling term and, there are very few superstar UFA contracts, if any, that aren't max term. This tells most everything they need to know about his intentions.

.....which is he prefers to keep betting on himself with shorter term deals. There is no haggling here. Only acquiescence on the part of the Leafs if they want to keep him.

 

[HockeyVirus]

In Oiler circles, McDavid and Drai are already telling teammates they want to win there and are willing to take a discount. You need that type of culture.

Yeah ok. Drai is taking a discount the same way MacKinnon did. Becoming the highest paid player in the league until McDavid breaks it the season after. If they can't win with Kane and Hyman being elite, they aren't winning in 2 years when those guys are cap dumps and they add 7M in cap in raises for those two, plus the Campbell contract.

 

[Legion34]

Sure there is 4m difference between cap when contracts were signed and 2m when they actually started so thats 600k or 300k difference on 15% contract.

Not exactly. The cap when Mcdavid signed was in the summer before. He signed a full year before. They did not know how the cap was going to go up. They didn’t have revenues and everyone thought Vegas was going to be a disaster

Matthews signed in the winter with revenues known enough to guess and they even were expecting the cap when he started to be 83.5-86. 5

It was the first Time in forever maybe ever the escalator wasn’t used at all

Still their fault. They gambled on a higher number and played the odds and lost.

But it wasn’t at all the same

 

[drktmplr12]

.....which is he prefers to keep betting on himself with shorter term deals. There is no haggling here. Only acquiescence on the part of the Leafs if they want to keep him.

He prefers to put his team at a competitive disadvantage by insisting on contract with limited term when 100 percent of his peers sign 8 year deals.

 

[Boxscore]

Yeah ok. Drai is taking a discount the same way MacKinnon did. Becoming the highest paid player in the league until McDavid breaks it the season after. If they can't win with Kane and Hyman being elite, they aren't winning in 2 years when those guys are cap dumps and they add 7M in cap in raises for those two, plus the Campbell contract.

You can keep saying this but it's not true. MacKinnon just signed for only 700k more than Matthews currently makes. And this was fresh off winning a Cup and he signed for 8 years. Meanwhile, Matthews signed years ago and was only making 700k less than what MacKinnon makes now after his Cup win lmao.

After winning that Cup, MacKinnon had all the leverage to demand either 14 mil per, or a short-term deal. He just helped deliver the Avs a Cup and there was zero way the team could justify not paying him anything, literally. But what did he do? He took 700k more than Matthews. And what is Matthews likely going to do? He'll want about 1 to 1.5 more than MacKinnon -- and half the term -- after winning 1 playoff round in 7 years. It's embarrassing tbh.

 

[notbias]

In Oiler circles, McDavid and Drai are already telling teammates they want to win there and are willing to take a discount. You need that type of culture.

Holland is just going to overpay some bums, doesn't matter.

You can keep saying this but it's not true. MacKinnon just signed for only 700k more than Matthews currently makes. And this was fresh off winning a Cup and he signed for 8 years. Meanwhile, Matthews signed years ago and was only making 700k less than what MacKinnon makes now after his Cup win lmao.

After winning that Cup, MacKinnon had all the leverage to demand either 14 mil per, or a short-term deal. He just helped deliver the Avs a Cup and there was zero way the deal could justify not paying him anything, literally. But what did he do? He took 700k more than Matthews. And what is Matthews likely going to do? He'll want about 1 to 1.5 more than MacKinnon -- and half the term -- after winning 1 playoff round in 7 years. It's embarrassing tbh.

You brought up winning a cup a lot... MacKinnon deserves his contract cause he is good, but you'd think Maroon should be the highest paid player in the league based off this post.

Wait til you find out hockey is a team game.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Holland is just going to overpay some bums, doesn't matter.



You brought up winning a cup a lot... MacKinnon deserves his contract cause he is good, but you'd think Maroon should be the highest paid player in the league based off this post.

Wait til you find out hockey is a team game.

There's a notable difference between being the driver (or a driver) of team accomplishments and being a passenger.

 

[notbias]

There's a notable difference between being the driver (or a driver) of team accomplishments and being a passenger.

Makar was the driver.

That team was a 2nd round exit every year until him.

 

[Boxscore]

Holland is just going to overpay some bums, doesn't matter.



You brought up winning a cup a lot... MacKinnon deserves his contract cause he is good, but you'd think Maroon should be the highest paid player in the league based off this post.

Wait til you find out hockey is a team game.

Nonsense.

MacKinnon won a Cup and scored 111 points in 71 games last year while Matthews scored 85 in 74.

MacKinnon's PPG in the playoffs is 1.3 and Matthews is 0.88.

You can keep making all the excuses you want.

There's a notable difference between being the driver (or a driver) of team accomplishments and being a passenger.

If you think Nate MacKinnon is a "passenger" you need to start watching hockey. Come on now, we're embarrassing ourselves here simping over Matthews.

 

[HockeyVirus]

You can keep saying this but it's not true. MacKinnon just signed for only 700k more than Matthews currently makes. And this was fresh off winning a Cup and he signed for 8 years. Meanwhile, Matthews signed years ago and was only making 700k less than what MacKinnon makes now after his Cup win lmao.

After winning that Cup, MacKinnon had all the leverage to demand either 14 mil per, or a short-term deal. He just helped deliver the Avs a Cup and there was zero way the team could justify not paying him anything, literally. But what did he do? He took 700k more than Matthews. And what is Matthews likely going to do? He'll want about 1 to 1.5 more than MacKinnon -- and half the term -- after winning 1 playoff round in 7 years. It's embarrassing tbh.

Not sure what this comment has to do with my comment?

 

[gritdash60]

He gets what he wants, everyone knows it. Why would he take 11m AAV when he could get 13, maybe 14 if he tested the market. Yeah sure i kind of understand the "leave money to the table to be succesful", but it really isn't about 1 or 2mil of capspace if a team is succesful, i think you need to have good ELC players and a goalie that isn't paid too much these days to compete.

If he signs at 13.5 i think Leafs fans should be happy instead of angry that he took too much, he is the real deal.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

If you think Nate MacKinnon is a "passenger" you need to start watching hockey. Come on now, we're embarrassing ourselves here simping over Matthews.

I don't think Nate MacKinnon was a "passenger", I think Pat Maroon was a "passenger".

 

[mkatcherin00]

Yeah ok. Drai is taking a discount the same way MacKinnon did. Becoming the highest paid player in the league until McDavid breaks it the season after. If they can't win with Kane and Hyman being elite, they aren't winning in 2 years when those guys are cap dumps and they add 7M in cap in raises for those two, plus the Campbell contract.

Drai deserves a massive raise. 4 MILL. Winning is hard. Like your Leafs, Oilers lost to a great COL team and a good VEG team. BUT, the top dawgs put out numbers like it ain't no thang. Something Auston and Co don't do.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

He gets what he wants, everyone knows it. Why would he take 11m AAV when he could get 13, maybe 14 if he tested the market. Yeah sure i kind of understand the "leave money to the table to be succesful", but it really isn't about 1 or 2mil of capspace if a team is succesful, i think you need to have good ELC players and a goalie that isn't paid too much these days to compete.

If he signs at 13.5 i think Leafs fans should be happy instead of angry that he took too much, he is the real deal.

The dollars is the minor part of the 2 part equation, at least in my opinion. The combination of the dollars and the short-term he is (reportedly) asking for is the main issue.

 

[Boxscore]

He gets what he wants, everyone knows it. Why would he take 11m AAV when he could get 13, maybe 14 if he tested the market. Yeah sure i kind of understand the "leave money to the table to be succesful", but it really isn't about 1 or 2mil of capspace if a team is succesful, i think you need to have good ELC players and a goalie that isn't paid too much these days to compete.

If he signs at 13.5 i think Leafs fans should be happy instead of angry that he took too much, he is the real deal.

"What is 1 or 2 million in cap space...?" A lot, in a hard cap league, especially when you have multiple stars to pay. If Tavares, Matthews, and Marner all took 2 million less, we likely would have won more than 1 round in 7 years with them as our core. That 5-6 million extra would have gotten us another impact player or a couple of upgraded depth pieces. More importantly, it gets them more talent to help shoulder the load.

If there was no hard cap, we wouldn't care if the Leafs paid these guy 50 million a year. It's not about the dollars, it's about the cap space and the ability (or inability) to ice a legitimate Cup contender.

And, Matthews is the "real deal" to an extent. He is an elite goal scorer and has put up some nice numbers. But he lacks leadership, character, is a headache with contracts, and he comes up small in the playoffs. If Matthews was all that, how come he has only won 1 playoff round in 7 years even while surrounded by multiple superstars, including a high-priced UFA prize like Tavares to help relieve the burden of him carrying the team up the middle?

Look, if you are Connor McDavid scoring 150+ and packing your trophy case with multiple Harts, Art Rosses, and Rockets every year... you can walk into a negotiation and demand anything you want... on your terms. But when you are coming off an 85 point season and have disappointed in the playoffs religiously, you need to slow your role a bit. The fans need to stop talking about Matthews like he's McDavid or prime Crosby or Ovechkin. That's the problem. Connor McDavid doesn't have an 85 point "down year" or a 0.88 PPG in the playoffs.

Not sure what this comment has to do with my comment?

I thought you were classifying MacKinnon as a "passenger" and I was responding to that. If I was mistaken, my apologies.