Rumor: Kypreos says Matthews will be 13.5M (Haggling over term)

[Eternal Leaf]

If you do the math, let's say Matthews does 13.5M X 3, add that to his existing contract.

He basically signed an 8 year, 12.34M contract. He would still be paid less than McDavid with the same term despite signing the contract on a higher cap.

However, because he's separating his UFA and RFA years, people are out to bash Matthews.

That would have been a disgraceful contract at the time.

McDavid put up two 100+ point seasons to get 12.5 a year before.

 

[Divine]

That would have been a disgraceful contract at the time.

McDavid put up two 100+ point seasons to get 12.5 a year before.

No he didn’t. McDavid signed after his second year, not his third. He also signed on a lower cap so the cap percentage was higher.

McDavid signed his contract 2 seasons before Matthews, not a year prior.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

No he didn’t. McDavid signed after his second year, not his third. He also signed on a lower cap so the cap percentage was higher.

McDavid signed his contract 2 seasons before Matthews, not a year prior.

You're right I forgot about that yet it's still bad.

12.34 x 8 at that time would have been terrible.

 

[Divine]

You're right I forgot about that yet it's still bad.

12.34 x 8 at that time would have been terrible.

Not really when you realize Jack Eichel got 10M after putting up a career high 57 points.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Effectively closing the door on a cup with that salary.

 

[KCC]

Crazy that 13.5m is what a role player off the bench gets in the NBA

Not surprising. the league makes double what the nhl does and obviously they only have 12 players on a team.

Matthews came off a 40goal season with a nagging wrist injury who disappeared in rd 2. Doesn’t really sound like a player worth 1 million more then mcdavid…..

Dude is average as hell without Marner. Marner drives the play so matthews can get open. Without him he’s no where near the gosl scorer or player.

 

[keglu]

Not really when you realize Jack Eichel got 10M after putting up a career high 57 points.

Not reaaly strong argument considering Matthews career high was 69 points at this point. PPG in 2 first seasons 0.8, 0,92 and 1.16. Again closer to Eichel who also played on team scoring 50+ fewer goals per season.

 

[Divine]

Not reaaly strong argument considering Matthews career high was 69 points at this point. PPG in 2 first seasons 0.8, 0,92 and 1.16. Again closer to Eichel who also played on team scoring 50+ fewer goals per season.

That's actually a really strong argument for Matthews. Matthews as a rookie had more points than Eichel's career high when he signed.

Matthews signed in his third season, not his second. Eichel signed on a lower cap than Matthews.

At the time of signing, Matthews had played 38 games and had 23G 23A 46P. Also it's not a good argument to make that Eichel is on a lower scoring teams if you're arguing he's a comparable player. The logical argument would be his team is lower scoring because he doesn't product as much as Matthews. At the time Matthews was drafted, we were hearing about how much ahead Buffalo's rebuild was than Toronto's. Buffalo also finished higher in the standings and scored more goals than the Leafs the season prior to acquiring Matthews.

If we're using Eichel as the comparable, Matthews took a discount.

 

[GCK]

Are they still haggling ?

 

[malcb33]

I love Matthew’s as a player and the things he can do on the ice, but I dislike his attitude towards the business side of the game.

Taking an extra few million so you can brag about being the highest paid player etc, while further hurting your chances of actually winning something, is selfish. No other way to put it IMO.

Yes you have the leverage, but should you really use it? I fear he’s not going to figure out how to win, until he’s at the tail end of his career and no longer the centre piece.

 

[CDN24]

Are they still haggling ?

Yes except they are now haggling over how determine term. Team wants to draw straws, AM 34 is more of a rock player scissors guy. Team does not want him to risk a wrist injury playing rock -paper- scissors.

 

[PainForShane]

Effectively closing the door on a cup with that salary.

Especially when you consider Nylander's publicly said multiple times that his salary request with the Leafs is more about not being the only one taking a pay cut. If AM gets 13.5, after this season Nylander is as good as gone (Leafs wouldn't be able to afford), most likely for nothing because why would Leafs trade him in-season in the middle of a contention window.

I think during this thread all of you have convinced me. If AM34 wanted to win a cup with Toronto, he would sign for 11 to 11.5m long term, basically the same as what he's making now. Nylander would be able to return, in 2 years when Marner is up, Marner won't be able to justify crazy compensation, Tavares' salary will also be reduced so they can use that extra money to re-work their D and / or G in a way that would support a long playoff run ie heavier and better.

It doesn't seem like Matthews is interested doing in anything like this, I also wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't sign this summer and becomes a UFA (again, he has all the leverage). Really curious to see what happens here

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I love Matthew’s as a player and the things he can do on the ice, but I dislike his attitude towards the business side of the game.

Taking an extra few million so you can brag about being the highest paid player etc, while further hurting your chances of actually winning something, is selfish. No other way to put it IMO.

Yes you have the leverage, but should you really use it? I fear he’s not going to figure out how to win, until he’s at the tail end of his career and no longer the centre piece.

He's taking the extra few million as compensation for having to put up with posts like yours.

 

[Mr Positive]

Especially when you consider Nylander's publicly said multiple times that his salary request with the Leafs is more about not being the only one taking a pay cut. If AM gets 13.5, after this season Nylander is as good as gone (Leafs wouldn't be able to afford), most likely for nothing because why would Leafs trade him in-season in the middle of a contention window.

I think during this thread all of you have convinced me. If AM34 wanted to win a cup with Toronto, he would sign for 11 to 11.5m long term, basically the same as what he's making now. Nylander would be able to return, in 2 years when Marner is up, Marner won't be able to justify crazy compensation, Tavares' salary will also be reduced so they can use that extra money to re-work their D and / or G in a way that would support a long playoff run ie heavier and better.

It doesn't seem like Matthews is interested doing in anything like this, I also wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't sign this summer and becomes a UFA (again, he has all the leverage). Really curious to see what happens here

to me the main criticism goes against Nylander in this. It's not a negative against the player, but it's just a fact that Matthews is the face of the team. He's going to get the big chunk, and Nylander is a secondary piece. If Nylander wants to be top dog, it has to be on another team.

I suspect that the Leafs have simply never had the opportunity to make that trade for a top Dman. It's always been trading Nylander for multiple inferior pieces, so the main job every offseason is to try to sell the fanbase that there is change when there isn't one. (this offseason being no exception)

Maybe they got Treliving mostly because he has made big core trades before, but also perhaps they have eyed the disintegration of the Flames with close interest. The issue there is that a Hanifin or Lindholm want money as well, and seem to want the USA.

I say this is the summer where they finally have a true impact option though: Karlsson. I do not see much excuse why the Leafs wouldn't take a real gamble at a true #1D. Yeah he's not perfect but if you are waiting around for 2007 Pronger the day will never come.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I love Matthew’s as a player and the things he can do on the ice, but I dislike his attitude towards the business side of the game.

Taking an extra few million so you can brag about being the highest paid player etc, while further hurting your chances of actually winning something, is selfish. No other way to put it IMO.

Yes you have the leverage, but should you really use it? I fear he’s not going to figure out how to win, until he’s at the tail end of his career and no longer the centre piece.

You're projecting here.

 

[mkatcherin00]

Are they still haggling ?

Basically. Imagine a team is willing to make you the highest cap hit in the league and you can't sign it and you want less term lol. Team player baby

 

[notbias]

Dude is average as hell without Marner. Marner drives the play so matthews can get open. Without him he’s no where near the gosl scorer or player.

You can always tell who doesn't watch him play.

This is the same guy who put up 40 goals with Brown and Hyman (who were both rookies)... that has to be the worst wingers of a 40 goal scorer that I can think of.

 

[mkatcherin00]

My biggest thing is how much his playoff production drops compared to regular season.

Also, how much his productions drops in games 5-6-7

 

[myleafs]

Because he's not good enough until he's on a team with other threats - then he's great on the PP.

 

[drktmplr12]

You can always tell who doesn't watch him play.

This is the same guy who put up 40 goals with Brown and Hyman (who were both rookies)... that has to be the worst wingers of a 40 goal scorer that I can think of.

and the same guy who scored 0 points in 5 games against a "terrible Panthers team who didn't deserve to be in the playoffs"

 

[PainForShane]

to me the main criticism goes against Nylander in this. It's not a negative against the player, but it's just a fact that Matthews is the face of the team. He's going to get the big chunk, and Nylander is a secondary piece. If Nylander wants to be top dog, it has to be on another team.

I suspect that the Leafs have simply never had the opportunity to make that trade for a top Dman. It's always been trading Nylander for multiple inferior pieces, so the main job every offseason is to try to sell the fanbase that there is change when there isn't one. (this offseason being no exception)

Maybe they got Treliving mostly because he has made big core trades before, but also perhaps they have eyed the disintegration of the Flames with close interest. The issue there is that a Hanifin or Lindholm want money as well, and seem to want the USA.

I say this is the summer where they finally have a true impact option though: Karlsson. I do not see much excuse why the Leafs wouldn't take a real gamble at a true #1D. Yeah he's not perfect but if you are waiting around for 2007 Pronger the day will never come.

Multiple good points here, thx for sharing your thoughts.

First off though -- Re: Nylander, I disagree in that I don't really blame him at all. He's making ~7m, all of AM, Mitch, JT are at 11 or above ie 50% higher than Willie makes. And sure, Nylander's not a center, he's not the face of the franchise nor has he scored 60 goals. But like... 50% difference in pay? Keep in mind his offensive totals last year were about the same as Auston's -- actually slightly higher though AM34 missed a few games. And idk about you but if I'm doing about the same level of work as a few of my co-workers, yet they're all making 50% more than me... absolutely I'd be asking for a raise to bring our salaries more in line. So no, I don't blame Willie at all -- sure I think most would agree that AM34 should be paid more than Willie, but that difference shouldn't even be close to 50%.

***

Everything else you said seems on point. I do think that there were more than a few opportunities to fix the D around the edges (someone like Gavrikov this past year for example), but yeah, first time that someone like EK is available. But, how do you clear the cap space? Quick look at capfriendly shows it's not that easy, all of your big contracts have at least some sort of no trade protection. So you would basically have to re-tool your entire roster to make that happen. In other words, taking a gamble on a high cap-hit EK would take major surgery.

And Tre is one of the only GMs who have done something like this, and recently. And at the time everyone thought he got an absolutely stunning return for Matty Tk. Great point.

***

Really curious to see what happens here, not only this year but going fwd. I think most teams with a young, elite core should basically keep their guys together for a while and see if / when they win the cup, as we've seen with teams like Tampa, Colorado, WSH it can take quite a long time. But in the cap era, I can't think of another team's young core who are this focused on getting paid, which obvi makes it much harder for their GM to build a team around them. As a neutral, very curious to see what ends up happening here not only now but over the next decade or so

 

[notbias]

and the same guy who scored 0 points in 5 games against a "terrible Panthers team who didn't deserve to be in the playoffs"

View attachment 733485

5 game sample sizes are always the best indicator of a player's ability over an 82 game sample size.

Not sure Bobrovsky gives them .950 goaltending in a larger sample size, could be wrong though.

 

[TS Quint]

5 game sample sizes are always the best indicator of a player's ability over an 82 game sample size.

Not sure Bobrovsky gives them .950 goaltending in a larger sample size, could be wrong though.

You think the opinion of Matthews playoff ability was made in 5 games? Thats just another straw on the camels back. His entire history is a big drop off in production from regular season to playoffs.

Matthews contributed to that .950%.

 

[Mr Positive]

Multiple good points here, thx for sharing your thoughts.

First off though -- Re: Nylander, I don't really blame him at all. He's making ~7m, all of AM, Mitch, JT are at 11 or above ie 50% higher than Willie makes. And sure, Nylander's not a center, he's not the face of the franchise nor has he scored 60 goals. But like... 50% difference in pay? Keep in mind his offensive totals last year were about the same as Auston's -- actually slightly higher though AM34 missed a few games. And idk about you but if I'm doing about the same level of work as a few of my co-workers, yet they're all making 50% more than me... absolutely I'd be asking for a raise to bring our salaries more in line. So no, I don't blame Willie at all -- sure I think most would agree that AM34 should be paid more than Willie, but that difference shouldn't even be close to 50%.

***

Everything else you said seems on point. I do think that there were more than a few opportunities to fix the D around the edges (someone like Gavrikov this past year for example), but yeah, first time that someone like EK is available. But, how do you clear the cap space? Quick look at capfriendly shows it's not that easy, all of your big contracts have at least some sort of no trade protection. So you would basically have to re-tool your entire roster to make that happen. In other words, taking a gamble on a high cap-hit EK would take major surgery.

And Tre is one of the only GMs who have done something like this, and recently. And at the time everyone thought he got an absolutely stunning return for Matty Tk. Great point.

***

Really curious to see what happens here, not only this year but going fwd. I think most teams with a young, elite core should basically keep their guys together for a while and see if / when they win the cup, as we've seen with teams like Tampa, Colorado, WSH it can take quite a long time. But in the cap era, I can't think of another team's young core who are this focused on getting paid, which obvi makes it much harder for their GM to build a team around them. As a neutral, very curious to see what ends up happening here not only now but over the next decade or so

I wonder if getting Klingberg took Toronto out of the Karlsson sweepstakes. Or maybe they decided that Karlsson isn't right stylistically (which I would disagree with big time, and especially since Klingberg is just the same but worse). I do see the issue with fitting Karlsson, but maybe with Brodie out it works (depends on his 10 team no-trade list of course). That's with Nylander out too.

So this might be two trades that Toronto would have to do, and both players potentially to teams other than SJ, so it could be like a 4 team trade (and that makes it especially difficult to do).

If it is a deadline deal, as an Oiler fan I'm still somewhat intrigued, as the Oilers are still looking to upgrade Ceci. I've seen Oiler fans work out the numbers before with 25% retention and it's possible.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

to me the main criticism goes against Nylander in this. It's not a negative against the player, but it's just a fact that Matthews is the face of the team. He's going to get the big chunk, and Nylander is a secondary piece. If Nylander wants to be top dog, it has to be on another team.

I don't think that WN wants to be top dog, he does not want to the only person to take a "haircut" on his market value. Given their performance last year - does anyone feel that AM is worth 50% more than WN? Over the last 3 years, I'd say that WN has been the Leafs best player in the P/O's.