Kyle Dubas will not be back as GM

[mclaren55]

Was I supposed to view them in the future? Dubas did nothing to improve the franchise. Leafs are looking at long term pain now, and many fans seem completely oblivious.

If people think we are facing “long term pain” now, what was the last 50 or so years?

Regardless of who becomes GM, this new generation of fans don’t know pain. The last 7 years has been pretty good as a leaf fan. At least we make the playoffs regularly, and this past post season we saw progress, regardless of the outcome in the second round.

Losing Dubas isn’t going to be some negative inflection point as some are making it out to be.

 

[Got One Cup]

Why are people acting like he was a great GM? He was handed some young high end talent to build around and failed to do anything with it. Constantly sunk too much cap in his forward group and went cheap on defense and goaltending. Get a GM in there who has the balls to make some changes instead of running the same core back every yr with failed results.

 

[Pepper]

We all like to bag on the laffs but when the chips are down, 31 teams want him managing their cap

This is simply Toronto-based fantasy.

Kyle Dubas has done absolutely nothing to warrant this kind of hyping/praise.

Simply the way he has handled Leafs goaltending cap-wise is beyond horrible.

I just dont get this "cap wizard" stuff that gets thrown around when talking about Dubas.

Drafting - above average maybe, couple of good picks but nothing to sing songs about.
Trading - not horrible but it's not like he has fleeced anyone.
Cap management - Half of the cap tied on 4 players, millons of dead cap space wasted on goalies. I just don't get it.

Kyle Dubas is an average GM, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Sundinisagod]

He has been a great gm but his best days are still ahead. This years trade deadline is more indicative of what you’re getting than what he did as a rookie gm. I envy whatever team signs him. Shanahan will look like a fool very soon.

 

[berklon]

Hopefully the Leafs sign Bergevin as their new GM. Therrien could be their new coach too.

Too french.

 

[nturn06]

If people think we are facing “long term pain” now, what was the last 50 or so years?

Regardless of who becomes GM, this new generation of fans don’t know pain. The last 7 years has been pretty good as a leaf fan. At least we make the playoffs regularly, and this past post season we saw progress, regardless of the outcome in the second round.

Losing Dubas isn’t going to be some negative inflection point as some are making it out to be.

You guys are missing the obvious.... How did the team look when Dubas took over and how does it look now?

Has ever been a rookie GM which stepped in into a better possition?

 

[sergejean]

Why are people acting like he was a great GM? He was handed some young high end talent to build around and failed to do anything with it. Constantly sunk too much cap in his forward group and went cheap on defense and goaltending. Get a GM in there who has the balls to make some changes instead of running the same core back every yr with failed results.

Pretty much this.

He was a decent gm, some could even argue above average/top tier but elite he was not. He did well in getting complimentary pieces but failed to identify what is rotten and make that big move to shake up the organisation when it was needed. Also, he held on much too long to Sheldon Keefe when it was clear for a while now that he would not be the one to take this team to the promise land.

 

[nturn06]

Am I the only one who finds it hilarious that Dubas was basically fired because he was terrible at negociating his contract? After he was terrible at negociating his teams contracts with no repercursion.

There is one thing I do not understand though: why did he need an agent? I can understand why players need agents, but it is an important part of Dubas' job to negociate contracts, by hiring an agent is he admiting that he can't do this? Maybe if his agent negociated the JT,WN,MM and AM contracts the Leafs would had been in a better situation.

 

[mclaren55]

You guys are missing the obvious.... How did the team look when Dubas took over and how does it look now?

Has ever been a rookie GM which stepped in into a better possition?

Ok, and?

We haven’t lost any of those players, we will still make the playoffs this upcoming season (in all likelihood), where is the fire?

I never cared for Dubas, and wish things had gone different. What’s the point of looking in the rear view?

All your post states is “he had an opportunity and squandered it”. We all know this, so what is your point?

 

[nturn06]

Ok, and?

We haven’t lost any of those players, we will still make the playoffs this upcoming season (in all likelihood), where is the fire?

I never cared for Dubas, and wish things had gone different. What’s the point of looking in the rear view?

All your post states is “he had an opportunity and squandered it”. We all know this, so what is your point?

My post was actually supposed to say that he had a great opportunity and squandered it. That's not describing a "great" GM, not even a good one.

 

[Ace]

It’s fitting that he was done in by a contract proposal to overpay someone who hadn’t won anything (himself).

There’s a kind of poetry to it

 

[mclaren55]

My post was actually supposed to say that he had a great opportunity and squandered it. That's not describing a "great" GM, not even a good one.

I still don’t see your point. Who stated he was great? Who here has denied he had an opportunity to excel and failed?

You’re basically just captain obvious with these posts, not providing some great insight.

 

[nturn06]

I still don’t see your point. Who stated he was great? Who here has denied he had an opportunity to excel and failed?

You’re basically just captain obvious with these posts, not providing some great insight.

There are many posts in this thread saying that he was great, some even use the word elite

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Am I the only one who finds it hilarious that Dubas was basically fired because he was terrible at negociating his contract? After he was terrible at negociating his teams contracts with no repercursion.

There is one thing I do not understand though: why did he need an agent? I can understand why players need agents, but it is an important part of Dubas' job to negociate contracts, by hiring an agent is he admiting that he can't do this? Maybe if his agent negociated the JT,WN,MM and AM contracts the Leafs would had been in a better situation.

I imagine you'd want someone who isn't emotionally involved in the negotiating process.

 

[mclaren55]

There are many posts in this thread saying that he was great, some even use the word elite

Not sure who those people were watching if that’s the case.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Waiting until the very last minute to realize that your unsigned GM that you left hanging last off season might actually leave? Having literally no back up options? Doing nothing with about a month left from what could be a franchise altering offseason...did he simply think the Leafs would go on a long run, or that everything would work out hunky dory if they crapped the bed again?

So not only did Shanny fire Dubas over a communication breakdown, aired all the dirty laundry to the public, look petty as hell by basically admitting that this was an emotional decision, but he also sat on his hands and did absolutely nothing over the last year in anticipation of this exact scenario. A risk with a high probability of happening if the team didn't perform or the GM not wanting to stay...a risk that should've been identified over a year ago and mitigated.

Don't get me wrong, I love watching the Leafs fail at management 101, but this is all on Shanahan because he's the one accountable.

Dubas flip flopped. Shanny was clear that Dubas’ intentions were 100% known and they had a deal ready. He goes and talks to other candidates when he doesn’t need to and Dubas’ camp hears, he will lose his guy. He wants Dubas. Dubas wants back. It’s great.

Then the leafs choke (I guess shanny should have known they would exit fast) and Dubas becomes Judas. He disregards Shanny’s advice and holds media availability unnecessarily then applies all the master negotiating tactics he deployed over the years and talks himself out of a contract. It’s the Dubas version of brandishing a gun on instagram. “I actually don’t know if I want to be the gm”. Shanny’s jaw drops, his guy is shook emotionally and he can’t trust him with the team. And here we are today.

That’s all Dubas being weak mentally and a crap negotiator. Shanny was a lot more polite than he needed to be in his presser. He could have just said Dubas betrayed us and can’t be trusted. He took the high road.

 

[The Nuge]

Am I the only one who finds it hilarious that Dubas was basically fired because he was terrible at negociating his contract? After he was terrible at negociating his teams contracts with no repercursion.

There is one thing I do not understand though: why did he need an agent? I can understand why players need agents, but it is an important part of Dubas' job to negociate contracts, by hiring an agent is he admiting that he can't do this? Maybe if his agent negociated the JT,WN,MM and AM contracts the Leafs would had been in a better situation.

It’s actually pretty fitting. He’d be a pretty good GM if he had someone else to negotiate contracts for him

 

[Nemesis Prime]

I keep hearing this now and it's absolutely false.

On paper, Dubas' teams *always* looked soft and underwhelming in net.

Then in the playoffs each spring, they got pushed around, were not nearly physical enough, and were underwhelming in net.

Pretending he assembled teams that people expected to challenge for the Cup, but his "players let him down" and the team underperformed is totally and completely false.

I think fans outside of Toronto, that weren't blinded by fandom and hope knew these teams weren't built for the playoffs and that is 100 percent Dubas' fault because year after year he stubbornly refused to acknowledge that toughness was a big a piece of the puzzle. He clearly felt he could win with just high end offensive talent and that clearly - and repeatedly - didn't work.

Pretending he did a great job but the players let him down is total nonsense.

The Maple Leafs are a better team today because he left.

Is it though?

Is it really Dubas' fault that Matthews, Marner, Tavares have no problem showing up in the season but come playoff time they're playing Casper and Friends?

Dubas will be gone, but the Leafs will still be ghosts come playoff time.

 

[TOGuy14]

Am I the only one who finds it hilarious that Dubas was basically fired because he was terrible at negociating his contract? After he was terrible at negociating his teams contracts with no repercursion.

There is one thing I do not understand though: why did he need an agent? I can understand why players need agents, but it is an important part of Dubas' job to negociate contracts, by hiring an agent is he admiting that he can't do this? Maybe if his agent negociated the JT,WN,MM and AM contracts the Leafs would had been in a better situation.

It is common to use an agent so they act as a middle man and there are no hard feelings on either side about tough talk and dollars etc.

Basically the agent is just an intermediary to smooth out table talk and negotiations between the two sides to keep things amicable after the deal.

You ever see what happens when baseball players go to arbitration or anything lol?

 

[j c petit]

Hopefully the Leafs sign Bergevin as their new GM. Therrien could be their new coach too.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Am I the only one who finds it hilarious that Dubas was basically fired because he was terrible at negociating his contract? After he was terrible at negociating his teams contracts with no repercursion.

There is one thing I do not understand though: why did he need an agent? I can understand why players need agents, but it is an important part of Dubas' job to negociate contracts, by hiring an agent is he admiting that he can't do this? Maybe if his agent negociated the JT,WN,MM and AM contracts the Leafs would had been in a better situation.

eh, I can still see the advantages of having an agent negotiate your contract, though I don't know how often it's done with GM's.

It keeps what can be tough negotiations one level removed from the relationship. Let your agent be the bad cop.

 

[nturn06]

eh, I can still see the advantages of having an agent negotiate your contract, though I don't know how often it's done with GM's.

It keeps what can be tough negotiations one level removed from the relationship. Let your agent be the bad cop.

While this is true, isn't one of the reasons why he is a GM and his agent just an agent the fact that he is supposed to be better at negociations?

It is common to use an agent so they act as a middle man and there are no hard feelings on either side about tough talk and dollars etc.

Basically the agent is just an intermediary to smooth out table talk and negotiations between the two sides to keep things amicable after the deal.

You ever see what happens when baseball players go to arbitration or anything lol?

I think it is common for the players, but this is the first time I hear about this for GM's...

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Mirtle: With Kyle Dubas gone, prepare for more Maple Leafs front-office fallout

The Maple Leafs' parting ways with Kyle Dubas is likely the beginning of front-office upheaval with the team.

theathletic.com

The Dubas spin has begun.

 

[Channelcat]

This is simply Toronto-based fantasy.

Kyle Dubas has done absolutely nothing to warrant this kind of hyping/praise.

Simply the way he has handled Leafs goaltending cap-wise is beyond horrible.

I just dont get this "cap wizard" stuff that gets thrown around when talking about Dubas.

Drafting - above average maybe, couple of good picks but nothing to sing songs about.
Trading - not horrible but it's not like he has fleeced anyone.
Cap management - Half of the cap tied on 4 players, millons of dead cap space wasted on goalies. I just don't get it.

Kyle Dubas is an average GM, nothing more, nothing less.

Average is very complimentary when you look at his transaction record.

 

[Canucks LB]

The leaks are coming out, and it’s getting good!