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Kyle Dubas vs JFJ

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Who is worse?

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  • Poll closed .
jr's biggest problem is he had a b/u goalie fetish and for some reason felt the need to blow his brains out by dealing quality assets for them

Dubie is in way over his head and is now scrambling to save his job

it's close but i have to give the nod to Dubie since it takes a special kind of incompetence to f*** up the situation he walked into
 
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Stephen said:
And yet his first move as GM was to spend $11 million on a center and rewrite the entire cap structure of his team instead of continuing to build methodically through the draft and address weaknesses as they come with judicious evaluation of talent and continue to support his kids.

I’m sure a lot of us really enjoyed the Tavares signing at the time too. But shouldn’t a great GM operating with foresight and insider business knowledge have steered this ship a little better than what turned out to be EA Sports franchise mode?
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99% of people loved the Tavares signing, and yet, here you are blaming him for it now. If that's not a Leaf fan thing to do than I don't know what is.
 
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Throw More Waffles said:
It’s both. The core are very good players. They’re also DRAMATICALLY overpaid.

We’re now a mediocre team because our great core are outrageously overpaid.

Personally, I’d prefer if a non-rookie gm paid our very talented core players market value so our team could be great as opposed to mediocre. But you do you.
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How much are they overpaid by though, $5M, maybe? Do you know how many other teams have so much more than $5M committed to dead capspace ie: a player that isn't contributing anything anymore but also aren't movable?
 
The worst part about the Rask/Raycroft trade was Boston was getting ready to put the guy on waivers when JFJ came calling. And every other GM knew it. So not only did he trade a blue chip goalie prospect and future Vezina winner...he traded him for a guy we could have got for FREE just a few weeks later.
 
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I've soured on Dubas as time has gone on (ironically because he's not as much of an analytically-inclined GM as I thought and a lot of his moves fly in the face of public analytics).

But c'mon...this shouldn't be close. JFJ made comically bad errors. He's like a Jim Benning.
 
LeafsOHLRangers98 said:
JFJ and not even close... The team we had last year was fantastic. Marner didn't show up in the playoffs. If he plays like Kucherov we play in the finals as well.

Giving Marner his contract and the Foligno trade were bad, but for the most part Dubas moves have made the team much better. Traded for Hyman, traded for Muzzin, signed Brodie, traded for Campbell. Should be a top 5-8 team again next year.

JFJ was just awful and made awful moves.
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LOL!!! Oh my god. LOL. If he plays like Kucherov. LOL
 
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Curt m said:
I agree on the ray Croft. But the marner contract worse then the rest. Those other moves didn’t wreck a once in a life time core
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This is hilarious. On one hand, Dubas overpaid a star player by $2 million. On the other hand, JFJ literally got confused as to who he was signing and offered a fringe NHLer a $3.5 million per year contract (in an era where the cap was much lower).

Yes. Totally the same.
 
LeafsOHLRangers98 said:
JFJ and not even close... The team we had last year was fantastic. Marner didn't show up in the playoffs. If he plays like Kucherov we play in the finals as well.

Giving Marner his contract and the Foligno trade were bad, but for the most part Dubas moves have made the team much better. Traded for Hyman, traded for Muzzin, signed Brodie, traded for Campbell. Should be a top 5-8 team again next year.

JFJ was just awful and made awful moves.
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Right.
We were fantastic last year.
Nice participation trophy.
Get real.
 
Nylanderthal said:
Regular season results are on the management team for constructing a roster that night and night out competes at a level good enough to be a playoff performer.
The playoffs are on the players for stepping up in crunch time when a singular performance is make or break.
Coming out of the deadline and heading into the playoffs even the most boisterous Dubas hater was happy with the way the team looked going in.
JFJ was a disaster period.
/thread
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No.
Dubas is incompetent and has been since day one.
Check his record.
Just the facts.
Not feelings.
 
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CantLoseWithMatthews said:
it's amazing how golden the core players are when you aren't talking about their unprecedented dramatic overpayments. when that topic comes up, suddenly they are a lot less special just so you can squeeze every ounce of hyperbole and portray those contracts as the worst deals ever signed
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Ya.
Big overpay for soft/scared boys.
Unforgivable.
Wonder Boy ruined the Leafs.
Horrid pretend gm.
 
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LeafsOHLRangers98 said:
JFJ traded for a bunch of over the hump vets and twice made horrible trades for goaltenders.

Rask for Raycroft is the obvious one but he also traded a 1st, 2nd, and a 4th for Toskala and Bell.
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So obvious you have no valid defence of Wonder Boy.
You guys are forever prattling along about Lou.
Now JFJ.
Give it a rest.
Defend your Guru.
Quite dredging up irrelevant past gms.
 
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acrobaticgoalie said:
I dont know why you brought up the draft. You said the Marner contract was worse than anything JFJ did. Over paying a 90+ pt player by 1.5M was not worse than trading away a cost controlled high 1st round drafted goalie that ended up being a top 5 goalie. Same with trading away 1st round pick for a backup goalie.

If you want to talk about the draft. JFJ was the GM from 03-08. 6 of those players you named were all from the same draft. Impressive draft but the only other NHLer he drafted in those 4+ years was Stralman. I wouldn't call that great drafting. Look at who else he had drafted. Saying Dubas' drafting has been crap because a the average size is about 5'11 is a bad argument. Plus you can't call his drafting crap when it hasn't been long enough to make that judgement. A majority of his picks are still teenagers. If you want to look at who he has drafted so far:
Amirov - 6'1 speedy, 2 way winger with really good offensive tools and an excellent wrist shot. Good production in limited ice time on the 4th line in the 2nd best league in the world. Just under Ppg at the world Juniors and played on the top line for Russia.

Sandin- had already appeared in a bunch of NHL games as a teen. Has put up 12 pts in 37 nhl games so far. Shown the ability to qb a powerplay. Dominating in the AHL. Best D man in the WJC with 10 pts in 7 games. Not bad for a late 1st.

Robertson- one of the best single season performances in OHL history. Really good showing at the WJC with near ppg. Has 16 pts in 21 games on a bad Marlies team as a teenager and has appeared in 7 NHL games. Not bad for a late 2nd. In the conversation of going top 15 in a redraft.

Niemela - played top pairing on a pro men's team in Finland as a teenager. Went over ppg at the WJC where he was named BEST D man. Smooth skater, incredibly poised, high IQ and actually plays pretty physical and doesn't get knocked down easy despite his small frame. Not bad for a 3rd rounder.

Abruzzese- one of the leading scorers in the NCAA as a freshman. Smooth skater, great passer and has been praised by coaches and scouts for having some of the best hockey IQ they've seen. Not bad for a 4th rounder.

Abramov- had 76 pts in 63 games carrying a terrible victoriaville team where the 2nd best player had 41 pts. Followed that up with another good year where he took his team deep in the Q playoffs. Has some good tools and plays scrappy at times. Looking like a possible middle 6er. 4th rounder.

Hirvonen- feisty little player with good tools. Played top line in a pro men's league as a teen for much of the season. Played top line for Finland at the WJC, playing with top talent Lundell going almost ppg. Late 2nd.

Miettinen - one of the highest scorers in the NCAA as a freshman. NHL shot already. Would've played at the WJC if not for Covid quarantine rules. 6th rounder.

Holmberg, Kral, SDAand Koster have all shown glimpses and steady progression. Outside chance of being NHLers. Players like Ovchinnikov, Villeneuve as well as others also are interesting prospects to watch.

None of these players look like crap drafting.
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Please.
Everyone has prospects.
So do we.
So what.
Wonder Boy succeeded in building a tiny/weak/scared/lousy nhl team.
He has the same players in the minors.
Shameful.
 
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Smif said:
99% of people loved the Tavares signing, and yet, here you are blaming him for it now. If that's not a Leaf fan thing to do than I don't know what is.
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Then I am the 1%. At that time, as enticing as JT was, it was D that they needed. They still had Kadri as their #2 centre, who was more than adequate. And don't give me the crap about Naz riding himself out of town. We would kill to have a player with that grit and heart now.
 
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