Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[notDatsyuk]

Announced on a Friday afternoon with a long weekend...
This was expected/planned.

I thought good news was delivered after the weekend?

 

[sxvnert]

I'm all for going back to Stajan and Bozak as first line centers . I hate elite talent too.

Yes all prospects will end up as Stajan & Bozak tier. Leaf incompetence is not the norm. I've also heard for years "but tanking doesn't always work out!" and they end up with Matthews.

Some rebuilds work, some don't. Whats guaranteed is this core four/five will not win and will only cost the team more cap space and picks/prospects chasing a failed plan. At some point you need to cut bail and move on.

 

[al secord]

Yes all prospects will end up as Stajan & Bozak tier. Leaf incompetence is not the norm. I've also heard for years "but tanking doesn't always work out!" and they end up with Matthews.

Some rebuilds work, some don't. Whats guaranteed is this core four/five will not win and will only cost the team more cap space and picks/prospects chasing a failed plan. At some point you need to cut bail and move on.

The stupidity lies in having 3 elite players and thinking you need a rebuild.

 

[ToneDog]

It comes down to professional judgements for me. If you cant negotiate your own deal in good faith its a pretty big red flag.

Maybe thats bullshit, and I'd like to hear from Kyle on exactly what happened, but changing your ask last minute is horrendous, especially with the amounts floated out.

Imagine Matty agreeing to a number and term in the middle of June and then on June 30 telling the Leafs he wants more money and less term.

 

[Dale Gribble]

 

[Clark4Ever]

I do wonder if it was process more than dollars. Changing the number this late in the game is pretty shady.

Agreed. If Dubas refrained from speaking publicly at the press conference and his agent made a similar counter offer earlier in the process, a deal may very well have been reached.

It speaks to character, and that reflects on the organization.

 

[justashadowof]

It would probably not be in the interest of Kyle to get into a war of words with a former employer.

I'm sure Kyle Dubas like Shanahan is perfectly capable of keeping it classy while making his case in response. Shanahan was able to make his case methodically and even tempered. It will be interesting to hear Dubas' explanation for the flip flop from family concerns to getting his agent to ask for more than Shanahan's extension offer. I don't really know how he's going to make that look good to an impartial observer.

 

[MCR74]

I think he'll land on his feet with lessons learned.

He'll probably sign Matthews and Knees in Arizona lol

To play in a high school rink.

 

[TorMapleJays]

I don’t want to celebrate people losing their jobs in this economy or any economy, but how many posters just lost their job this afternoon.

 

[LeafLoyalist]

I don't buy his story.

He didn’t need a story if he wanted to move on from Dubas, he had plenty of reasoning to move on. Questioning whether your GM is all in is a legitimate concern after that press conference on Monday, Shanahan didn’t have to explain it all, it was clear after Monday, Dubas was on the fence because he made it k own his family had a difficult time and it affected Kyle, and not signing that contract right away was verification from the Monday presser.. closed case.

 

[ToneDog]

I'm sure Kyle Dubas like Shanahan is perfectly capable of keeping it classy while making his case in response. Shanahan was able to make his case methodically and even tempered. It will be interesting to hear Dubas' explanation for the flip flop from family concerns to getting his agent to ask for more than Shanahan's extension offer. I don't really know how he's going to make that look good to an impartial observer.

He won't talk about it just like the coach he fired.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Shanny is going to wheel Fletcher out like Hannibal Lecter at the draft

I just spit my beer out, LOL

 

[Zero1]

I get more of a vibe that Shannahan wanted to extend Dubas for at least 3 (likely 4-5) years and Dubas countered with 1-2 because it actually was a rough year on his family and I can't blame him for not wanting to lock in if his family is gonna be dealing with harassment or other "fan" conflicts.

I don’t know man. Maybe it’s just me but I think like me most Leafs fans have have no idea who his wife is and what she looks like. If the fans were really harassing his family then it would have been made out to be a bigger deal.

Complete speculation on my part but I think there was a power struggle in the front office between Dubas and Shanny. This wasn’t about term or money. Dubas probably asked for more say in the front office which obviously impacts Shanny’s job.

The vibe I got from Shanny’s presser is that he also didn’t like the way Dubas was communicating with him. He made sure to say that he would directly go to Dubas in person to deliver him any news. Dubas had his agent do all the talking and even sent an email instead of picking up the phone and calling a guy you’ve worked with for over 9 years.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Dubas was fired today. His contract ends on June30th/July1st.

I thought maybe they told him he wasn't being renewed, but were being nice and letting him bow out 'due to family'. Looks like that wasn't the case.

His contract was set to end June 30. If he got fired today, it ended today.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Honestly nobody really likes uncertainty. Things could easily get worse from here, we don't really know. But I would take uncertainty every single time over running it back. That is something I could not take, this team desperately needed to make dramatic changes and I'm so glad we're seeing them. Things had just gotten so stale and I at least feel excitement for the times ahead, hopefully they don't screw it up

 

[Gallagbi]

I thought maybe they told him he wasn't being renewed, but were being nice and letting him bow out 'due to family'. Looks like that wasn't the case.

His contract was set to end June 30. If he got fired today, it ended today.

No point in working the next 6 weeks of your not being renewed

 

[justashadowof]

After he didn't automatically receive an extension before the 2022-23 season, I wonder whether Dubas never wanted an extension and had already planned on this being his final season with MLSE. I also wonder if Dubas did not anticipate Shanahan sharing the timeline of their correspondence thinking Shanahan would keep most of it private and allow Dubas to maintain the family stress ruse.

 

[Gallagbi]

I don't buy his story.

I think it's true. May just be missing some pieces and context

 

[The Masters]

Both Dubas and Nick Nurse publically state they may not be all in ... they both get fired. Dummies.

 

[SprDaVE]

Leafs report with Mirtle and Siegel bullet points:

-Mirtle "What people are seeing are some of the dysfunction that's been in the front office for a while. It's been hinted at but there have been rumours that things were not going well. It's been tricky to nail down to be able to report it, but to me that's what we're seeing this week."

-Typically an organization that leaks nothing, it's rare to see an organization especially like the Leafs, to go through a play by play like Shanahan, discussing details of meetings and emails.

-Dubas declined to comment.

-Dubas press conference on Monday took a lot of people by surprise. Nobody expected it, from media to Shanahan and Leafs board. The dysfunction mentioned was likely the big burn out from Dubas and the reason why he wanted more autonomy/money.

-Mirtle heard a rumour in the "middle of the season" that Brad Treliving would be the next GM in Toronto. Mirtle looks back at his texts and it was March 10th when he got the text about it. They talked a little about how he didn't really have much success in Calgary either.

-Gigantic decisions to be made. Shanahan could take over those decisions for the time being but Pridham also could do it since he knows the ins and outs of the team. Pridham is very close to Kyle Dubas though so that's something to keep an eye on.

-Fewer retreads of experienced GMs compared to coaches, so it's harder to find the perfect fit and with the right amount of experience. Experience shouldn't matter in terms of Head GM but they definitely need some front office experience, example of Jim Nill going from DET to DAL. Target AGM with front office experience because the list of Head GMs is short and not very good.

-Very possible Matthews takes a step back and doesn't want to sign until there's a GM in place and there's a clear guideline. Why would you? July 1st he has his NMC as well. Not a player you can just trade.

-The one thing is that they do have a lot of cap space to play with even without trading a big contract. Only really Murray they need to trade away and Mirtle thinks they easily find a suitor.

 

[egd27]

Such is the product of failure Jimmy. It was inevitable the second we lost game 5.

Game 3 I'd say

 

[3blizzard4]

It wasn’t only about $. Shanahan said as much himself. I think the strange Dubas press conference where he stated that he wasn’t sure about returning didn’t match his earlier communication with Shanahan. Combine that with his attempt to re-up later on it seemed to a Shanahan that Dubas was attempting to leverage the team after losing badly in round two.

the only way that makes sense is if Dubas had another offer on the table.

Strange indeed. Then he went on to say Toronto or nothing. Weird negotiation. No wonder the players took him to the cleaners.

He should fire his agent asap

 

[uncleben]

Leafs report with Mirtle and Siegel bullet points:

-Mirtle "What people are seeing are some of the dysfunction that's been in the front office for a while. It's been hinted at but there have been rumours that things were not going well. It's been tricky to nail down to be able to report it, but to me that's what we're seeing this week."

-Typically an organization that leaks nothing, it's rare to see an organization especially like the Leafs, to go through a play by play like Shanahan, discussing details of meetings and emails.

-Dubas declined to comment.

-Dubas press conference on Monday took a lot of people by surprise. Nobody expected it, from media to Shanahan and Leafs board. The dysfunction mentioned was likely the big burn out from Dubas and the reason why he wanted more autonomy/money.

-Mirtle heard a rumour in the "middle of the season" that Brad Treliving would be the next GM in Toronto. Mirtle looks back at his texts and it was March 10th when he got the text about it. They talked a little about how he didn't really have much success in Calgary either.

-Gigantic decisions to be made. Shanahan could take over those decisions for the time being but Pridham also could do it since he knows the ins and outs of the team. Pridham is very close to Kyle Dubas though so that's something to keep an eye on.

-Fewer retreads of experienced GMs compared to coaches, so it's harder to find the perfect fit and with the right amount of experience. Experience shouldn't matter in terms of Head GM but they definitely need some front office experience, example of Jim Nill going from DET to DAL. Target AGM with front office experience because the list of Head GMs is short and not very good.

-Very possible Matthews takes a step back and doesn't want to sign until there's a GM in place and there's a clear guideline. Why would you? July 1st he has his NMC as well. Not a player you can just trade.

-The one thing is that they do have a lot of cap space to play with even without trading a big contract. Only really Murray they need to trade away and Mirtle thinks they easily find a suitor.

I really hope we don't go to Treliving...

 

[7even]

It comes down to professional judgements for me. If you cant negotiate your own deal in good faith its a pretty big red flag.

Maybe thats bullshit, and I'd like to hear from Kyle on exactly what happened, but changing your ask last minute is horrendous, especially with the amounts floated out.

How last minute is it? His contract wasn't up for another month.

I'm not asking anything of the executive other than to make decisions about the hockey branch, about hockey. Shanny going from being all systems go on this guy after the Florida series to firing him over ambiguity expressed in a press interview and the optics and soft skills of tending a renegotiated offer does not inspire me that this was a hockey decision. Is my read unreasonable?

You want to go in a different direction, fine, I'm not married to the guy, but one thing's certain, and that's that I will jump off an overpass before I go back to cheering for the JFJ, Richard Peddie, Brandon Burke version of the Toronto Maple Leafs, and this feels like a play out of that book, just straight YOLOing it.

 

[al secord]

Brad Treliving? Christ almighty. I guess the mouthbreathing crew will enjoy that


Is this what you boomers were hoping for?