Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[Antropovsky]

Much rather this than him and Spezza going to Ottawa

Spezza didn't look super comfortable sitting with Dubas in the stands. Also, Spezza said he'd retire if he got picked up on waivers. Pretty sure he and his family live in Toronto.

Who cares if Spezza leaves anyways? He has zero experience or degree ... He's completely green.

 

[Zur En Arrh]

Kyle earned the right to ask whatever the f*** he wanted. Lets not forget this was the gamble MLSE and Brendon made him take. They could have easily resigned him last season when he earned it then as well. But because they were to chicken shit to face the public and extend a GM after a failed season, there we were on Monday.

MLSE doesn't give a f*** about money. It was never about money. It was about Shanny getting ass hurt by a guy his junior, who strung him along on a decision that he put Kyle into in the first place.

Make no mistake, this is Shanny essentially saying "I'm the boss", that's it. He let his ego get in the way of the right decision. I could get behind that if Shanny was the straw that stirred the drink for this team, but what the f*** has that guy done for this team lately?? we've not even heard from him all year until today.

MLSE should be embarrassed TBH

Nah bro, the kid used his wife and kids to leverage more money. Shanny saw through it and thought " WTF" and realised they better pivot and move on. It's really that simple..

 

[djdev]

Somebody needs to talk him off the ledge.

good luck lol

 

[Martin Skoula]

All the things Dubas said on the surface were valid, but the audience was wrong and performative.

He could have said everything to Brendan in private, because why are you appealing to public sympathy? He could have made his family decision this week. He could have negotiated harder, asked for the moon and stars. But he didn't. He aired it out in public, made an appeal for sympathy and tried to create a pressure point on the eve of the offseason. And was completely willing to come back a few days later.

Could he not have followed through on this whole process in private? Doesn't pass the smell test.

To play devils advocate, a gritty reboot of Kyle as a cutthroat Machiavellian who’ll do anything to get a cup would be what I’m looking for if he were to continue as GM. Make a 30 mil donation to CHEO to name a wing after Matthews and bring up that the kids’ #1 wish was an 8x8 deal with no trade protection.

 

[MCR74]

Let em leave if it comes to that. The Leafs existed before they came here, they'll be here after they're gone. Maybe you can go with them though?

Exactly.

It's not like Matthews and Marner were gangbusters in the playoffs (when it mattered most). If they're looking for max money, let some other team overpay.

Matthew can return to Arizona, and not have to worry about the playoffs.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Them having loyalty to someone who treated them fairly and with respect gets shit on by the organzation and they're expected to just "do their jobs"?

Maybe it's just me, but if something like that happened in my job there's very little chance I'd be working there longer than I need to.

I think we should wait and see who the replacement is and go from there. If it's someone shitty I'll be right there with you, but there's a real opportunity for getting better here too

 

[Ciao]

Shanny feels betrayed and if his story is the closer to the truth version then he has every right to be.

The Leafs brought this entire situation on by leaving Dubas unsigned for too long.

Even if they expected to fire him right about now, they created a needlessly volatile situation by leaving him unsigned. At best, they lost control over the timing of his exit.

If Dubas were still under contract, all they would have to lose is money. They could have prepared the groundwork for his replacement with time on their side, if and when they decided his time had come.

That said, I think Shanahan had no alternative. I would have fired Dubas too if he kicked me in the nuts like that. It was inexcusable.

The trouble is, the Leafs took their hand off the wheel and lost control of things. All it would have cost them to maintain control was money.

The lesson is, don't go into the season with a lame-duck coach or general manager. Extend them even if you're probably going to fire them. They get a payout, and you're in the drivers' seat.

 

[RoadWarrior]

If she did dumbest wife in sports history

Women always get greedy in negotiations… it’s a rule of life.

 

[andora]

No disrespect, but that's not exactly what the press conference indicated

The board, and Shanny wanted to extend Kyle at the conclusion of the Trade Deadline. Kyle said he did not want that to distract from the team at the time, and that Shanny should deal with his agent. There as a mutual interest at this point. Shanny then expressed at the conclusion of the season that despite the disappointing ending to the season, that Kyle did a good job and that he wanted to extend him. Kyle was again still interested, but wanted to talk to his family about it. Kyle has his press conference, and does not give Shanny an immediate answer on his offer. Keep in mind, Kyle went into the season as a lame duck GM, and does not owe Shanny f*** all. Kyle then counters 3 days later, and Shanny feels hard done by and decides to move on.

Shanny and the board felt like Kyle was the right man to continue the job as of Monday.... This same group that had decided to wait till this moment in time to even offer Kyle an extension becasue they wanted him to be "judged on his entire 5 years as GM". Yet they changed their minds in a matter of 5 days???

This is bush league managing from MLSE and Shanny. If your feelings were hurt by Kyle's counter demands, maybe don't f***ing back yourself into a corner like you did by taking your GM into his last year of his deal when you have one of the busiest off-season's to date coming up. Not exactly a position of leverage. Or better yet, maybe if you just extended him for a short term deal last off season, you wouldn't be in this f***ing mess now to begin with.

Again, if Shanny came out and said: "Kyle is not the guy for the Job. We need a new voice, and a new set of eyes". I would respect that, and I would accept that decision. But that's not what happened. Shanny made an emotional decision and let go of a guy he's believed to be the right guy for the job for 5+ years, and as recent as 4 days ago.

I dont understand how this defaults yo an emotional decision.. it could just as easily have been emotional to tender the offer and Kyles dumbass presser was the slap in the face that woke him up

I dont get why this is default enotional or feelings.. that is lazy

Shanahan probably went f***.. what the hell did he just do, he is doing what we hate players doing.. i had him wrong

 

[ToneDog]

My reading of it is Shanny severely misjudged how unsettled Dubas' likely was about a few things - family stuff, lack of extension in place maybe ect. Dubas probably more upset than anticipated hence the blow up at the initial media presser.

The fact that Shanny has been physically distant for much of the season (he lives in NYC) probably helped cloud the relationship

They were at the 2 yard line and Dubas asks for more money. I just glad Shanny punted him.

 

[Stephen]

Them having loyalty to someone who treated them fairly and with respect gets shit on by the organzation and they're expected to just "do their jobs"?

Maybe it's just me, but if something like that happened in my job there's very little chance I'd be working there longer than I need to.

Shouldn't everyone's loyalty be to the Toronto Maple Leafs as an organization, full stop?

Shouldn't Kyle be acting in lock step with the president as one cohesive front even if there are disagreements over philosophy and healthy debate?

Shouldn't being treated with respect and given resources to excel be a hallmark of being a Toronto Maple Leaf and not personal relationships with one manager?

Shouldn't Kyle be treating Brendan with a degree of professional courtesy when throwing out a curveball because he's respectful and loyal to those above him?

Shouldn't Kyle protect his family from public hockey discussions by leaving them out of media press conferences?

The fact the organization seems to hinge on loyalty to one guy seems like the biggest red flag to me.

 

[Eco]

You imagine wrong.

Only time will tell.

 

[ToneDog]

I truly hope you guys end up with Benning.

Sure Grandma Dubas.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Hahaha say goodbye to all the players that want to come here!!!

Matthews and Nylander likely as good as gone when they refuse to re-sign in a few weeks. Marner to follow next season and we'll be forced to sell for peanuts. Joke organization squeezed all the goodwill out.

wow if they don't want to here because they don't have a GM will say how much they "care" after every exit - buh bye

 

[sxvnert]

Dubas countered with a much larger offer. Shanny threw the family card back in his face and told him to take a hike.

Cutthroat management is the opposite of the country club atmosphere Dubas built. About f***in time.

 

[Ciao]

I don't blame him. Get the max severance pay. Nothing wrong with that.

Getting fired with contract left is one of the perq's for coaches and general managers. I remember when Pat Burns practically had to beg Cliff Fletcher to fire him. Gord Stellick didn't mind being paid by the Rangers for a while as well.

 

[myleafs]

But that's a thing that happens, you don't even have to leave the sport to find examples. Like my old man only moved to the States when his boss offered enough to get my mom on board. It's pretty mundane yeah?

But I'm not going to get into an argument with you, I respect your opinion.

But lets say you old man had an agreement in principle with his boss and the boss was pretty certain your old man was moving to the states to handle the big contracts of some big clients which was happening in the next 6 weeks then at the last minute your old man turned on all the speakers in all the buildings and offices that your boss owns and stated he wasnt sure he was coming to the states and that the last yr working for his boss has been hard on his family and he will need to discuss with them even though the contract negotiations had been going on for quite a while. Then 3 days later has someone else email his boss demanding more compensation, then later on that day your old man sends an email saying yea sure Ill take the job. I dont know exactly what went on but the optics are bad.

 

[thewave]

wow if they don't want to here because they don't have a GM will say how much they "care" after every exit - buh bye

The reactions are so over the top strange!

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Betting the sun comes up tomorrow.

Bet your bottom dollar!

 

[Stephen]

My reading of it is Shanny severely misjudged how unsettled Dubas' likely was about a few things - family stuff, lack of extension in place maybe ect. Dubas probably more upset than anticipated hence the blow up at the initial media presser.

The fact that Shanny has been physically distant for much of the season (he lives in NYC) probably helped cloud the relationship

The struggle is real. But the way Kyle went out in front of the media instead of his boss and his wife to hash it out and the fact that we know this dirty laundry is the red flag to me. The way he handled it was absolutely incorrect.

 

[Ciao]

I truly hope you guys end up with Benning.

Screw you.

 

[Contenderorpretender]

Shanahan could have just added at the very end before leaving. Ohhh btw Keefe is fired too. Thanks

 

[Pink Mist]

How many GM's have agents? This seemed weird to me?

All of them, same with head coaches

 

[sxvnert]

Haven't been this impressed with MLSE/Shanny since Shanny first took over and went full rebuild after a year.

 

[myleafs]

The Leafs brought this entire situation on by leaving Dubas unsigned for too long.

Even if they expected to fire him right about now, they created a needlessly volatile situation by leaving him unsigned. At best, they lost control over the timing of his exit.

If Dubas were still under contract, all they would have to lose is money. They could have prepared the groundwork for his replacement with time on their side, if and when they decided his time had come.

That said, I think Shanahan had no alternative. I would have fired Dubas too if he kicked me in the nuts like that. It was inexcusable.

The trouble is, the Leafs took their hand off the wheel and lost control of things. All it would have cost them to maintain control was money.

The lesson is, don't go into the season with a lame-duck coach or general manager. Extend them even if you're probably going to fire them. They get a payout, and you're in the drivers' seat.

Yep I would agree but it sounds like Shanny did go to bat for him and ownership nixed it. Whatever differences Shanny and Dubas might have regarding the team, Shanny went to bat for Kyle right from the beginning. Makes sense why he would feel betrayed.