Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[Martin Skoula]

Do you honestly think Shanny was the NuHockey guy? I dont think Shanny was running the show in that capacity.

Shanahan is literally the main architect of NuHockey and proudly admits this in many public articles lol.

 

[Mess]

Of course championship caliber teams don't always win, but they don't always lose either. What exactly is your criteria for a championship caliber team that it includes a team that was never even remotely close to winning a cup?

Here is my recollection of the past 4 years calling BS on championship caliber, but not on losing in epic fashion to most of the weakest opposition on paper and biggest underdogs.

2019-20
Leafs as the 3rd highest scoring team lost in the play-in round in best of 5 games to 3rd lowest scoring Columbus Blue Jackets coming off a season minus Artemi Panarin who was heading to the Big Apple, Matt Duchene to Music City and goalie Sergei Bobrovsky to South Beach Florida as free agents & breakup of the CBJ's star core of players. Leafs didn't even qualify to make the final 16 playoff teams that year as a result of new format.

2020-21
Leafs win the All-CDN Div (77 points) and play the #16 ranked playoff Montreal Canadiens (59 points) in round #1 and lose a series they were up 3-1 against the longest underdog on the board. Montreal only made the playoffs because of Covid and closed divisions, while better teams with more points were sidelined as a result of new format.

2021-22
Leafs finish 2nd in Atlantic and lost in round #1 - Ending the season claiming to have earned "respect in the handshake line", while claiming so called championship caliber.

2022-23
Leafs finish 2nd in Atlantic with 111 points and despite winning a round for the 1st time in 5 years, they face the #16th ranked over all Florida Panthers who finished as WC#2 with 92 points and nearly get swept in 4 games, mustering only a 2-1 win in game #4 to prevent it.

Where is this championship caliber, when you keep losing to the biggest underdogs on the board in new and embarrassing fashion year after year?

 

[Hockeysawks]

No disrespect, but I think this attitude sort of represents the entitlement issues and emotional immaturity the young core on the Leafs have shown. There is a difference between "rich people hanging out with rich people" and the optics of Matthews and company following Bieber around like fanboys and having the time of their lives on social media immediately after underachieving once again in the playoffs.

It's a professional maturity issue. It's being aware of the situation and considering optics. It's demonstrating where your priorities lie. It's showing your bosses and fans that you hate losing as much as they do. But these kids just don't seem to get it. They have a very entitled, "I'll do what I want, when I want, win when I want, wear what I want, and you'll pay me what I want" mindset. That's a toxic mindset. And until it shifts the Leafs will likely never win anything significant.

If you were the highest paid revenue generator for your company and your business is struggling and you just finished the year poorly, would you immediately post pics on Instagram of you all smiles at a swim up beach bar? Or laying in the sun without a care in the world? Likely not, if you valued your job and the perception your employers, coworkers, and peers have of you.

That's the thing -- these kids just don't get it. Either does/did Dubas, and it's why his immature power play got him jettisoned.

The point I made referenced Sidney Crosby as contrast. Does he not "hang around with other rich people?" When he was 25 and the Pens were ousted from the playoffs, he dedicated two offseasons to shooting thousands of pucks and practicing face-offs.

I'll use another example: when the Avalanche were upset in the playoffs three seasons ago, Nate MacKinnon flipped out, got into impeccable shape, and demanded his teammates take their diets seriously. The following season he was hoisting the Stanley Cup. That's dedication.

Ironically, the summer MacKinnon dedicated himself, social media was littered with "sugar memes" mocking him. Because everything is a big joke to people who don't take their profession or winning seriously. The kid was legit ridiculed and made a punchline for wanting to improve and win a Cup. The Leafs core though? What have they done publicly in their offseasons? They've asked for more money, followed Bieber around, and complained about the dress code.

You honestly don't see a problem with this? Don't see a pattern of misaligned priorities and early playoff exits that follow due to poor performances from said players? Where's our Crosby or MacKinnon? They've been backstage VIP and picking out new kicks to wear on game night.

They have a life to live and they get to enjoy being young.

 

[thewave]

Shanahan is literally the main architect of NuHockey and proudly admits this in many public articles lol.

If so he should be fired as well and its a waste of time watching them if winning is what matters to you. They will simply be the local pub band go have your drinks and go home.

 

[Boxscore]

They have a life to live and they get to enjoy being young.

Of course they do. But they also need to get a handle on reality, mature professionally, and man up and live up to their hype and contract in the playoffs.

 

[Martin Skoula]

If so he should be fired as well and its a waste of time watching them if winning is what matters to you. They will simply be the local pub band go have your drinks and go home.

Fire him or don’t fire him, he already made his permanent mark on the NHL beyond the Leafs that’s going to take decades to fix, if it’s even fixable. He’s been consistently more concerned with his legacy and changing the game ever since he signed that first offersheet. Pretty symbolic that it was Stevens going the other was. Same guy who KO’d Shanny’s weird obsession and vision for the future in Kariya. Same guy who Shanny tried to make obsolete and a relic of the past as an exec.

 

[ToneDog]

Here is my recollection of the past 4 years calling BS on championship caliber, but not on losing in epic fashion to most of the weakest opposition on paper and biggest underdogs.

2019-20
Leafs as the 3rd highest scoring team lost in the play-in round in best of 5 games to 3rd lowest scoring Columbus Blue Jackets coming off a season minus Artemi Panarin who was heading to the Big Apple, Matt Duchene to Music City and goalie Sergei Bobrovsky to South Beach Florida as free agents & breakup of the CBJ's star core of players. Leafs didn't even qualify to make the final 16 playoff teams that year as a result of new format.

2020-21
Leafs win the All-CDN Div (77 points) and play the #16 ranked playoff Montreal Canadiens (59 points) in round #1 and lose a series they were up 3-1 against the longest underdog on the board. Montreal only made the playoffs because of Covid and closed divisions, while better teams with more points were sidelined as a result of new format.

2021-22
Leafs finish 2nd in Atlantic and lost in round #1 - Ending the season claiming to have earned "respect in the handshake line", while claiming so called championship caliber.

2022-23
Leafs finish 2nd in Atlantic with 111 points and despite winning a round for the 1st time in 5 years, they face the #16th ranked over all Florida Panthers who finished as WC#2 with 92 points and nearly get swept in 4 games, mustering only a 2-1 win in game #4 to prevent it.

Where is this championship caliber, when you keep losing to the biggest underdogs on the board in new and embarrassing fashion year after year?

And after all that success, we are left with 3 picks in this year's draft, Matthew Knies, Matty and Willie pending UFAs and considering breaking up the same core the last GM bet "every f***ing thing" on. That is some fantastic work. WTF are the Penguins drinking to consider making the architect of this debacle their GM or worse, President of Hockey Ops??

 

[Boxscore]

Here is my recollection of the past 4 years calling BS on championship caliber, but not on losing in epic fashion to most of the weakest opposition on paper and biggest underdogs.

2019-20
Leafs as the 3rd highest scoring team lost in the play-in round in best of 5 games to 3rd lowest scoring Columbus Blue Jackets coming off a season minus Artemi Panarin who was heading to the Big Apple, Matt Duchene to Music City and goalie Sergei Bobrovsky to South Beach Florida as free agents & breakup of the CBJ's star core of players. Leafs didn't even qualify to make the final 16 playoff teams that year as a result of new format.

2020-21
Leafs win the All-CDN Div (77 points) and play the #16 ranked playoff Montreal Canadiens (59 points) in round #1 and lose a series they were up 3-1 against the longest underdog on the board. Montreal only made the playoffs because of Covid and closed divisions, while better teams with more points were sidelined as a result of new format.

2021-22
Leafs finish 2nd in Atlantic and lost in round #1 - Ending the season claiming to have earned "respect in the handshake line", while claiming so called championship caliber.

2022-23
Leafs finish 2nd in Atlantic with 111 points and despite winning a round for the 1st time in 5 years, they face the #16th ranked over all Florida Panthers who finished as WC#2 with 92 points and nearly get swept in 4 games, mustering only a 2-1 win in game #4 to prevent it.

Where is this championship caliber, when you keep losing to the biggest underdogs on the board in new and embarrassing fashion year after year?

This tells me they are poorly constructed, lack professional maturity, and like winning more than they hate losing. One thing is for sure -- it's not a talent issue. It's an intangibles issue and everything else.

 

[Tak7]

There is absolutely no basis, in reality, for saying he was above average GM. The team was in a better shape talent, cap allocation and pick-wise when he started.

You're probably far too young to remember the Stellick / Smith / Cliff / JFJ / Burke / Nonis era Leafs.

People talk about the Dubas era as if it were that bleak time, despite being virtually the opposite.

I still give it 24 months before most of you finally realize that the grass isn't always greener.

 

[ToneDog]

They have a life to live and they get to enjoy being young.

Somebody should tell Matthew f***ing Tkachuk that he's got it all wrong.

 

[thewave]

Somebody should tell Matthew f***ing Tkachuk that he's got it all wrong.

Didnt know NuHockey was Shanahan. With you full stop on fire Shanahan as well. Loser mentality is pop culture now. Real consequences are the only remedy.

 

[Hockeysawks]

Of course they do. But they also need to get a handle on reality, mature professionally, and man up and live up to their hype and contract in the playoffs.

How do you know Nate didn't piss everyone off causing a first round exit with his over the top nonsense this year?
The reality is that its a job dude, every game half the guys on the ice loose, they don't need to hold a funeral and mourn

 

[ACC1224]

Somebody should tell Matthew f***ing Tkachuk that he's got it all wrong.

You don't think he has a life?

 

[thewave]

Fire him or don’t fire him, he already made his permanent mark on the NHL beyond the Leafs that’s going to take decades to fix, if it’s even fixable. He’s been consistently more concerned with his legacy and changing the game ever since he signed that first offersheet. Pretty symbolic that it was Stevens going the other was. Same guy who KO’d Shanny’s weird obsession and vision for the future in Kariya. Same guy who Shanny tried to make obsolete and a relic of the past as an exec.

I didnt read much about Shanahan and NuHockey. I just know Babcock isnt that and neither was Lou or Hunter so it makes little sense.

 

[ToneDog]

You don't think he has a life?

He does, but he decided to put in on hold this April, May and June.

 

[ACC1224]

He does, but he's put in on hold this April, May and June.

...and the implication is that the Leaf players didn't?

 

[ToneDog]

...and the implication is that the Leaf players didn't?

Not against Florida. Most of our guys are not willing to play outside their comfort zone. Been this way too long.

 

[egd27]

It’s becoming apparent to me that just removing the GM won’t be enough to fix the team composition, I hope I’m wrong, but I fear it’s going to be “meet the new boss, same as the old boss…….”

 

[Boxscore]

You don't think he has a life?

Yes, his life includes factoring in on 8 of the 12 game winning goals for his team this playoff run. His life also includes him showing up to work, grinding it out, getting nasty and beaten up for navigating the hard areas on the ice so his team can play for a Stanley Cup.

He also signed a long-term deal this summer with a 9.5 mil cap hit after scoring 40+ goals and 100+ points. Meanwhile, Tavares, Marner, and Matthews all demanded a lot more than that without producing those kind of numbers.

Matthew Tkachuk can do whatever he wants on his down time.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I didnt read much about Shanahan and NuHockey. I just know Babcock isnt that and neither was Lou or Hunter so it makes little sense.

Mike “the powerplay is our enforcer” Babcock benching Martin in the playoffs didn’t tip you off?

The game needed someone to force change upon it to get from there to here, 18 years later, and there’s no doubt Shanahan’s decision to dedicate the final five years of his playing career to help institute rules that didn’t benefit him personally was a key part of that shift.

“You wouldn’t think of him as a cerebral, deep thinker about the game, but he was,” Kariya said. “I think when you look at the way the game is played now — and all the offense that’s evolved into the game — it really goes back to what Brendan did after the lockout and all the changes to open up the game and make it more offensive.

“He would joke with me. He’d say, ‘I don’t know why I’m doing this. I’m helping you. I’m hurting myself.’ I thought that was a really funny comment — but it’s true. He was helping players of my ilk — smaller guys, skilled players, and in some ways, he was hurting himself, the power forward who could grind through the checks and play any kind of style. I think when fans watch the way the game is played today — the excitement, the speed, the offensive production — a lot of that has to do with Brendan and those changes that he helped bring into the game. You wouldn’t have believed that would come from a player of his ilk.”

NHL99: Brendan Shanahan deserves credit for pushing the game forward

Shanahan put up big numbers but will be remembered for steering the NHL — and certain players — in positive directions.

theathletic.com

Wouldn’t it be fun playing with Shanny the last 5 years of his career? You’re busting your balls trying to win a cup, meanwhile your top power forward is busy trying to make being a power forward illegal and spending more time with Bettman than with his teammates. Then he retires, joins the DOPS, and suspends you for looking at a guy too mean. But it’s all good, he got to make his mark on the league and got his 7xForever contract to do ???? for the Leafs.

 

[Mess]

And after all that success, we are left with 3 picks in this year's draft, Matthew Knies, Matty and Willie pending UFAs and considering breaking up the same core the last GM bet "every f***ing thing" on. That is some fantastic work. WTF are the Penguins drinking to consider making the architect of this debacle their GM or worse, President of Hockey Ops??

Dubas is gone but Leafs pain and suffering will live on long past his removal, as he mortgaged the Leafs deep into the future to fuel his failure, and that emptying of the prospect pool with Leafs core 4 all due upcoming raises and Leafs in dire need of cheap young talent on ELC to offset it, that suffering is still to come down the road ahead.

In the course of the next 3 still yet future upcoming drafts the Leafs only have 5 of a potential 12 picks remaining in the top 120 overall selections from 2023-2025.

That doesn't even include past drafts, nor include Dubas traded every Leafs 1st round pick of the past 5 years away to win 1 playoff round.

We're still going to pay the piper for these Dubas transgressions,

 

[ACC1224]

Not against Florida. Most of our guys are not willing to play outside their comfort zone. Been this way too long.

Sure but what's that have to do with their lives?

Yes, his life includes factoring in on 8 of the 12 game winning goals for his team this playoff run. His life also includes him showing up to work, grinding it out, getting nasty and beaten up for navigating the hard areas on the ice so his team can play for a Stanley Cup.

He also signed a long-term deal this summer with a 9.5 mil cap hit after scoring 40+ goals and 100+ points. Meanwhile, Tavares, Marner, and Matthews all demanded a lot more than that without producing those kind of numbers.

Matthew Tkachuk can do whatever he wants on his down time.

What you do in your down time has no bearing on how you play the game.
His and the Leaf players contracts have nothing to do with it.

 

[egd27]

Dubas would be an idiot to pass on the Penguins job. There are only 2 GM vacancies, and we already passed on him. He literally has no other options. If the idea is to watch Ottawa and hope the GM role there opens up there, don’t hold your breath

I'd bet he's doing more than watching. He's a bit of weasel, so I imagine he has been letting it be known he could be had.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Dubas is gone but Leafs pain and suffering will live on long past his removal, as he mortgaged the Leafs deep into the future to fuel his failure, and that emptying of the prospect pool with Leafs core 4 all due upcoming raises and Leafs in dire need of cheap young talent on ELC to offset it, that suffering is still to come down the road ahead.

In the course of the next 3 still yet future upcoming drafts the Leafs only have 5 of a potential 12 picks remaining in the top 120 overall selections from 2023-2025.

View attachment 713978

That doesn't even include past drafts, nor include Dubas traded every Leafs 1st round pick of the past 5 years away to win 1 playoff round.

View attachment 713982

We're still going to pay the piper for these Dubas transgressions,

Why did you cut off the amount of picks we had in the 2020 draft? Dubas spent on rentals that year too, show us the damage Mess!

 

[Trapper]

Sure but what's that have to do with their lives?


What you do in your down time has no bearing on how you play the game.
His and the Leaf players contracts have nothing to do with it.

Do you remember when Lou and Babcock first started here? What was that training t-shirt they had in regards to training, nutrition, etc. it was something like 325 days?