Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[Racer88]

I am when I think of some of the changes that might happen and then Im not if I start thinking that they are going to run it back. My contentment is hanging in the balance here waiting to see which direction this team goes. So Im excited but scared at the same time.

Ya, I will be disappointed if they run the same mess back again including the coach.
The only saving grace might be if we get a GM that actually knows anything about the goaltending position

 

[myleafs]

People will hate on Kyper but the guy has connections around the league.

When I first watched Kyper and Bourne I thought Kyper had brain damage...He was a little spaced out and seemed like he wanted to be anywhere but where he was but for a while now Ive really liked him and Bourne and I think their show is one of the better hockey talk shows out there.

Funny how some rip the media when they voice a different opinion than theirs but are hailed when they voice the same opinions. Remember how Seravelli was ripped by some for saying there was a power struggle between Shanny and Kyle ??

For me the difference is Kyper has an opinion and doesnt state his opinions as fact whereas others do.

 

[Apex Predator]

Ya, I will be disappointed if they run the same mess back again including the coach.
The only saving grace might be if we get a GM that actually knows anything about the goaltending position

If they’re going to run it back they need to get a strong hold on the goalie situation. Saros at 5 million for two more years fits under the cap structure with running it back. Woll as the back up. I don’t know if there is a world the leafs can make a trade for Saros without breaking up the core 4.

 

[ToneDog]

If they’re going to run it back they need to get a strong hold on the goalie situation. Saros at 5 million for two more years fits under the cap structure with running it back. Woll as the back up. I don’t know if there is a world the leafs can make a trade for Saros without breaking up the core 4.

Saros, Helly, Demko or Hart. Can you imagine Treliving getting the GM job and trading for Markstrom @ 75% ??

 

[Sypher04]

I have never heard Kyper claim to have insider knowledge other than his own experiences.

He most definitely has

 

[Arzak]

Mess I wanna try whatever you take before posting sometimes. The reality of the situation is Dubas was a decent/above average GM. But he’s not an amazing GM. People are acting like he set back the team 100 million years. No he didn’t. The team is still in decent shape.

How is Dubas even comparable to Dave Nonis, Brian Burke, JFJ, is beyond me. JFJ traded a star goaltending prospect for a bust of a goalie and then backed that up by trading another first for an even shittier goalie. Burke gave away two corner stone first rounders, then traded up to pick two busts in the first round. Nonis traded assets to get Bernier who wasn’t the greatest goalie, he selected Gauthier in the first round instead of Shea Theodore.

All 3 were way worse for our organization. Dubas did alright, could have done better but he’s far from the worst GM this organization has seen.

There is absolutely no basis, in reality, for saying he was above average GM. The team was in a better shape talent, cap allocation and pick-wise when he started.

I'm really curious, what matric did you use for grading 32 GMs that told you he was in the top 15 ?

 

[Boxscore]

If the reports of MLSE employees being "in mourning" over the dismissal of Kyle Dubas are true along with the Friedman reports that MLSE cuts may go deeper to rooting out the entire hockey department, it seems like there might be an organizational wide issue with emotional intelligence. Might not even be a core player issue.

I agree but also think the emotional intelligence issue has been spread to the young players like overgrown weeds. Upon underachieving in the playoffs two years straight, core players spent two offseasons focused on:

1. Shadowing the Justin Bieber Tour, riding in his bus, and accompanying him at social events.

2. Complaining about the dress code.

This sure seems like an emotional intelligence and priority issue to me. Talk about horrible optics and not getting it or caring enough. Meanwhile, young Sidney Crosby was spending his offseasons taking 1,000 slap shots and face-offs a day.

I still believe the way the MLSE brass, Dubas, and Shanny handled the Tavares signing, and spoiled the kids, created a pampered, country club atmosphere where Dubas would be brazen enough to use crocodile tears on the eve of an attempted power grab, Spezza would throw a hissy fit and resign, and other MLSE employees would be "in mourning" after his dismissal. Talk about entitled, fragile, and out of touch with reality.

Culture always starts with the top leadership, always. In every team, organization, or business. I think Shanny's dismissal of Dubas was him realizing the Leafs pampered culture has run amuck. Will he use this opportunity to reset it with an experienced, firm and serious GM? Will that GM reset it with Matthews and the young core by convincing them to take considerable less money to all remain in Toronto? If not, this ultimately falls on him -- this is (hopefully) his one and only Mulligan.

 

[francis246]

There is absolutely no basis, in reality, for saying he was above average GM. The team was in a better shape talent, cap allocation and pick-wise when he started.

I'm really curious, what matric did you use for grading 32 GMs that told you he was in the top 15 ?

Cap allocation was dog shit prior to Dubas. So dog shit we had to give up Connor Brown to get out from under the Zaitsev deal, we also had to give up a first to get out from the Marleau deal. On top of that Lou let Boxak and JVR walk for absolutely nothing.

Dubas made the playoffs every year except one and even that one is a technicality because we lost in the play in. Yes the team under performed in the playoffs but they still had incredible regular season runs (which you can’t just ignore when looking at a full body of work)

There’s three things I can really give Dubas shit for.

1. Trading Kadri, that was a huge mistake, IMO they should have kept him till the deadline if they really wanted to move him.

2. RFA deals could have been handled better, he was young and inexperienced. I put that more on Shanahan though. You have to know that Kyle probably wasn’t ready for that situation.

3. Letting Hyman walk. We should have found a way to keep him. From what I remember we kind of let him walk over something really insignificant like term.

I’m not even gonna put the Marchment trade in there. Look there are some mistakes but no GM is perfect. We’ve got some good prospects in the pipeline, we still have our homegrown core. So yeah he’s done a decent job. Kyle can’t go on the ice and performZ

 

[tuckerintensity]

That was only a rumour wasn’t it? Is there any proof whatsoever behind that? Kind of sounds like a coping device if it is only vague hearsay. Seems more likely he would want to play with former teammates Matthews and Marner rather than go to USA at all costs.

His agent gave Calgary a list of six teams, they were all in the US (Tampa, Florida, Vegas, Carolina, St. Louis, Colorado). While Treliving may have accepted Willie and Rasmus, Tkachuk wasn't coming to Toronto.

 

[francis246]

I agree but also think the emotional intelligence issue has been spread to the young players like overgrown weeds. Upon underachieving in the playoffs two years straight, core players spent two offseasons focused on:

1. Shadowing the Justin Bieber Tour, riding in his bus, and accompanying him at social events.

2. Complaining about the dress code.

This sure seems like an emotional intelligence and priority issue to me. Talk about horrible optics and not getting it or caring enough. Meanwhile, young Sidney Crosby was spending his offseasons taking 1,000 slap shots and face-offs a day.

I still believe the way the MLSE brass, Dubas, and Shanny handled the Tavares signing, and spoiled the kids, created a pampered, country club atmosphere where Dubas would be brazen enough to use crocodile tears on the eve of an attempted power grab, Spezza would throw a hissy fit and resign, and other MLSE employees would be "in mourning" after his dismissal. Talk about entitled, fragile, and out of touch with reality.

Culture always starts with the top leadership, always. In every team, organization, or business. I think Shanny's dismissal of Dubas was him realizing the Leafs pampered culture has run amuck. Will he use this opportunity to reset it with an experienced, firm and serious GM? Will that GM reset it with Matthews and the young core by convincing them to take considerable less money to all remain in Toronto? If not, this ultimately falls on him -- this is (hopefully) his one and only Mulligan.

What does point #1 have to do with anything? Who tf cares who they hang out with in their spare time? News flash Rich people hang out with other rich people.

Point number 2 I agree with, a dress code can help teams with establishing a team first mentality. Name on the front not on the back. But this obsession with trying to equate who athletes hang out with to athlete performance is the dumbest argument/point on HF. It’s based on NOTHING Factual , but your own personal dislike/distain for who they choose to be around.

 

[rumman]

I agree but also think the emotional intelligence issue has been spread to the young players like overgrown weeds. Upon underachieving in the playoffs two years straight, core players spent two offseasons focused on:

1. Shadowing the Justin Bieber Tour, riding in his bus, and accompanying him at social events.

2. Complaining about the dress code.

This sure seems like an emotional intelligence and priority issue to me. Talk about horrible optics and not getting it or caring enough. Meanwhile, young Sidney Crosby was spending his offseasons taking 1,000 slap shots and face-offs a day.

I still believe the way the MLSE brass, Dubas, and Shanny handled the Tavares signing, and spoiled the kids, created a pampered, country club atmosphere where Dubas would be brazen enough to use crocodile tears on the eve of an attempted power grab, Spezza would throw a hissy fit and resign, and other MLSE employees would be "in mourning" after his dismissal. Talk about entitled, fragile, and out of touch with reality.

Culture always starts with the top leadership, always. In every team, organization, or business. I think Shanny's dismissal of Dubas was him realizing the Leafs pampered culture has run amuck. Will he use this opportunity to reset it with an experienced, firm and serious GM? Will that GM reset it with Matthews and the young core by convincing them to take considerable less money to all remain in Toronto? If not, this ultimately falls on him -- this is (hopefully) his one and only Mulligan.

Lou knew this, culture is everything if you want to win...........

 

[Mess]

It takes years, YEARS of building to make the playoffs in the NHL....

Competent GMs

GM Lou Lamoriello inherited a Leafs team that had missed the playoffs 10 out of the previous 11 years, and finished dead last in 2015-16 and drafted Auston Matthews..
- In year #2 he took the team from 69 points to 95 points and into a WC position with a +26 point improvement before bowing out in 6 games to the 118 point President's trophy Washington Capitals in round #1.
- In year #3 he took the Leafs from 95 to 105 points while setting a new All-time best franchise record for points and wins in a season to bow out in 7 hard fought games to Boston.

GM of Seattle Ronnie Francis is starting from scratch with a team of everybody else's castoffs.
- In year #1 then finished 30th overall (3rd from the bottom) with 60 points.
- In year #2 they finished with 100 points (+40 point improvement) & knocked off the Cup Champs in round #1 as WC team, and then lost in game #7 round #2 by a score of 2-1.

Incompetent GM

Then we get saddled with Kyle Dubas who inherited a 105 point team and 5 years and 5 attempts later he finishes with 111 points and wins 5 playoff games is a single season, and nearly gets swept by a WC Panthers team that finished -19 points below them in the standings and the #16th and lowest ranked team entering the playoffs. Another painfully disappointing and embarrassing ending to a Leafs season.

Personally I'm still shocked how many knowledgeable Leaf fans, allowed that snake oil salesman Dubas to fool them into thinking and believing he was doing and good job, and surprised and dismayed this lame duck GM was cut loose, now concerned there is nothing better available. He achieved virtually nothing these past 5 years other than wasting the best 5 years of Leafs Cup competitiveness opportunity with the young core he inherited,

I for one believed he was never qualified for the job in the first place, but certainly after the debacle to Montreal after being up 3-1 to then losing to the lowest ranked playoff team in round #1 he should have been fired immediately.

That is 2 X in the past 3 NHL seasons (2021 & 2023) the Leafs have bowed out as heavy favourites to the #16 and lowest ranked playoff team. You can't have an easier match-up.

How come its only the vocal minority of Leafs Nation diehard fans that saw through all the bad overpaid contracts & poor trades, and ill-advised UFA signings in addition to all the poor playoff performances and failure, that are now relieved its over, its really over?. The majority of the Leafs fan base should be rejoicing, and embracing change and excited for the future now hoping for a Competent GM to guide this team to success and not let such as once proud franchise keep wallowing in failure, under the guidance of an incompetent and unqualified one.

 

[Trapper]

Saros, Helly, Demko or Hart. Can you imagine Treliving getting the GM job and trading for Markstrom @ 75% ??

If you’re going to pray to the heavens for a goalie to come and save us, might as well trade a core forward and get some D to make his life easier. Don’t need 4 forwards in that case.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Nobody said they were championship-caliber in each of the past 5 years, and while we have competed, teams that are good enough to win a cup don't always win a cup, let alone as soon as they are of that quality. There are multiple teams every year that are championship-caliber.

Of course championship caliber teams don't always win, but they don't always lose either. What exactly is your criteria for a championship caliber team that it includes a team that was never even remotely close to winning a cup?

 

[weems]

Of course championship caliber teams don't always win, but they don't always lose either. What exactly is your criteria for a championship caliber team that it includes a team that was never even remotely close to winning a cup?

Not only not even close to a Stanley cup but we didn't win 1 president's trophy or even win our own division (when it was TB/BOS/FLO).

You'd think the way some talk about Dubas era, We were some consistent juggernaut of a regular season team that just got unlucky in the playoffs but that isn't even the case.

 

[Antropovsky]

No, didn't you hear? Boston/Carolina just don't like working. We can just label any loss as a result of not working or trying, with absolutely zero substantiation of that claim.
Context? Didn't you hear? That's not allowed. Quick, where are the excuse police!? Can't be too far. They were running around manipulating people's names yesterday.
Leafs weren't healthy either, but it's interesting how when Leafs experience significant injury losses, or play through injuries, it's all suck it up and win anyway. But when other teams have an injury, it was impossible for them to win... Also, did you really just say that Carolina, the 113 point 2nd best team in the league, doesn't belong in the conference finals...?
And FYI, that generational Boston team only won 1 game against Bobrovsky too.

So your saying the leafs allocation of money is incorrect? They should be like Montreal, Tampa and Florida and put 9.5 million + into a goalie?.. Where do you get that money? Who do you cut?

I propose Mitch Marner... Here is why.

Marner had 14 points in 11 games.
- 6 of the points were in the first two blowout games vs Tampa.
- 3 of those 6 points were after those games were past 5-1 and all 3 when less than 23/mins remained.
- the other 3 points were on the pp, 2 of which were secondary assists.
- that means Marner had 1 g 8 points in the teams remaining 8 games and he certainly didn't get his nose dirty in any of those games either.

In fact he wasn't really close to dirty areas. Marner average shot distance was 40'. His slot shots were non exisistant and reportedly 10% worse than the next Leaf player.

If this was one series, we could say, not great but maybe next year. However this is year 5 of this kind of performance by Marner. Is a better goalie going to make Marner better in the playoffs?


Do you agree or disagree? Anyway you shake it, it's cap allocation, which is what most people argue is wrong with the Leafs. Too much money on three forwards.

 

[koyvoo]

What do you mean, not close?

5 playoff wins of a needed 16. That's alot closer than 3 of a needed 16.

It may have been 7 years, but progress is progress. You can’t say that it’s not.

 

[Mess]

If you’re going to pray to the heavens for a goalie to come and save us, might as well trade a core forward and get some D to make his life easier. Don’t need 4 forwards in that case.

Precisely Watson ..

Like Mitch Marner + Ilya Samsonov (RFA) + Timothy Liljegren + Leafs 1st
for
Travis Konecny ($5,500,000) + Ivan Provorov ($6,750,000) + Carter Hart ($3,979,000)

How about a new top 6 forward + top pairing PP Dman and #1 starting goalie?

That is the kind of aggressive NEW GM the Leafs need not afraid to ruffle some feathers and prepared to build a stronger foundation in a block buster type move.

PS. Remember when former Leafs GM Cliff Fletcher brought in Dougie Gilmour in and 10 player swap of 5 Leafs for 5 Flames 30 years ago. Leafs former GM Cliff Fletcher said "he didn't care how many players he had to give up acquire centre Doug Gilmour from the Calgary Flames".

 

[koyvoo]

So your saying the leafs allocation of money is incorrect? They should be like Montreal, Tampa and Florida and put 9.5 million + into a goalie?.. Where do you get that money? Who do you cut?

I propose Mitch Marner... Here is why.

Marner had 14 points in 11 games.
- 6 of the points were in the first two blowout games vs Tampa.
- 3 of those 6 points were after those games were past 5-1 and all 3 when less than 23/mins remained.
- the other 3 points were on the pp, 2 of which were secondary assists.
- that means Marner had 1 g 8 points in the teams remaining 8 games and he certainly didn't get his nose dirty in any of those games either.

In fact he wasn't really close to dirty areas. Marner average shot distance was 40'. His slot shots were non exisistant and reportedly 10% worse than the next Leaf player.

If this was one series, we could say, not great but maybe next year. However this is year 5 of this kind of performance by Marner. Is a better goalie going to make Marner better in the playoffs?


Do you agree or disagree? Anyway you shake it, it's cap allocation, which is what most people argue is wrong with the Leafs. Too much money on three forwards.

Also, in the context of the first round production, for all the forwards, it must be noted (particularly if we are going to have asterisk’s on the losses for being goalie’d), that in the only round that that was ever won by this core, the opposing goalie played what is likely the worst hockey in his entire NHL career.

 

[definedMF]

Precisely Watson ..

Like Mitch Marner + Ilya Samsonov (RFA) + Timothy Liljegren + Leafs 1st
for
Travis Konecny ($5,500,000) + Ivan Provorov ($6,750,000) + Carter Hart ($3,979,000)

How about a new top 6 forward + top pairing PP Dman and #1 starting goalie?

That is the kind of aggressive NEW GM the Leafs need not afraid to ruffle some feathers and prepared to build a stronger foundation in a block buster type move.

PS. Remember when former Leafs GM Cliff Fletcher brought in Dougie Gilmour in and 10 player swap of 5 Leafs for 5 Flames 30 years ago. Leafs former GM Cliff Fletcher said "he didn't care how many players he had to give up acquire centre Doug Gilmour from the Calgary Flames".

This might be your worst post ever. Holy crap is this trade is abhorrent.

 

[thewave]

Unfortunately I think the answer is yes. If Shanny had some latent old school philosophies towards the game, let's face it things would have gone very differently over the past 5 seasons.

Not buying it.

Shanahan Hires Lou. Hunter. Babcock. Dubas.

All of a sudden in a relatively shocking decision Dubas is made GM. Dubas talks the talk in line with trendy messaging and all that. Shanahan in short order turns his back on his plan and hires firing them or letting them go. Essentially he openly admits failure and then proceeds to bring in the Soo? Or...

Kyle Dubas sells the board on NuHockey while there and essentially usurps the team. Runs it into the ground and im the last minute goes for a final all encompassing power grab. Trying to get Shanahan out of the equation.

I think its pretty obvious. Shanahan went with the board and Dubas and finally when the mistake was obvious to MLSE he got canned.

 

[Boxscore]

What does point #1 have to do with anything? Who tf cares who they hang out with in their spare time? News flash Rich people hang out with other rich people.

No disrespect, but I think this attitude sort of represents the entitlement issues and emotional immaturity the young core on the Leafs have shown. There is a difference between "rich people hanging out with rich people" and the optics of Matthews and company following Bieber around like fanboys and having the time of their lives on social media immediately after underachieving once again in the playoffs.

It's a professional maturity issue. It's being aware of the situation and considering optics. It's demonstrating where your priorities lie. It's showing your bosses and fans that you hate losing as much as they do. But these kids just don't seem to get it. They have a very entitled, "I'll do what I want, when I want, win when I want, wear what I want, and you'll pay me what I want" mindset. That's a toxic mindset. And until it shifts the Leafs will likely never win anything significant.

If you were the highest paid revenue generator for your company and your business is struggling and you just finished the year poorly, would you immediately post pics on Instagram of you all smiles at a swim up beach bar? Or laying in the sun without a care in the world? Likely not, if you valued your job and the perception your employers, coworkers, and peers have of you.

That's the thing -- these kids just don't get it. Either does/did Dubas, and it's why his immature power play got him jettisoned.

The point I made referenced Sidney Crosby as contrast. Does he not "hang around with other rich people?" When he was 25 and the Pens were ousted from the playoffs, he dedicated two offseasons to shooting thousands of pucks and practicing face-offs.

I'll use another example: when the Avalanche were upset in the playoffs three seasons ago, Nate MacKinnon flipped out, got into impeccable shape, and demanded his teammates take their diets seriously. The following season he was hoisting the Stanley Cup. That's dedication.

Ironically, the summer MacKinnon dedicated himself, social media was littered with "sugar memes" mocking him. Because everything is a big joke to people who don't take their profession or winning seriously. The kid was legit ridiculed and made a punchline for wanting to improve and win a Cup. The Leafs core though? What have they done publicly in their offseasons? They've asked for more money, followed Bieber around, and complained about the dress code.

You honestly don't see a problem with this? Don't see a pattern of misaligned priorities and early playoff exits that follow due to poor performances from said players? Where's our Crosby or MacKinnon? They've been backstage VIP and picking out new kicks to wear on game night.

 

[LeafSteel]

He usually doesn’t but I think some of his takes about the Leafs are right. People don’t like to hear it since it’s Kyper saying it.

I lost all interest in hearing anything Kypreos had to say when he was moronically spewing everywhere at the TDL that unless the Leafs traded Knies for Kane, then they weren’t really “all in”.

Just another voice in the Toronto media that is easily ignored.

 

[thewave]

I lost all interest in hearing anything Kypreos had to say when he was moronically spewing everywhere at the TDL that unless the Leafs traded Knies for Kane, then they weren’t really “all in”.

Just another voice in the Toronto media that is easily ignored.

The core is too soft. Needs fixed and that means bigger trades. We weren't even close to FL and cane would not make the dif. Barely got by a depleted Tampa team.

 

[notbias]

Precisely Watson ..

Like Mitch Marner + Ilya Samsonov (RFA) + Timothy Liljegren + Leafs 1st
for
Travis Konecny ($5,500,000) + Ivan Provorov ($6,750,000) + Carter Hart ($3,979,000)

How about a new top 6 forward + top pairing PP Dman and #1 starting goalie?

That is the kind of aggressive NEW GM the Leafs need not afraid to ruffle some feathers and prepared to build a stronger foundation in a block buster type move.

PS. Remember when former Leafs GM Cliff Fletcher brought in Dougie Gilmour in and 10 player swap of 5 Leafs for 5 Flames 30 years ago. Leafs former GM Cliff Fletcher said "he didn't care how many players he had to give up acquire centre Doug Gilmour from the Calgary Flames".

Samsanov performed better than Hart last year... Also, there is only a year different between them.