Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

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Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
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Yeah. Exactly.

If your depth chart pieces aren’t projecting to yield the kind of impact pieces that make a difference don’t talk up what a great system you have.

“We got Joe Colborne, Matt Frattin, Greg McKegg, Brad Ross, Josh Leivo…” same Ithing.
I like the potential that a guy like Topi brings to be an impact player and the way weve pissed away depth talent over the years and havent utilized it on our own has been an ongoing issue, so i wouldnt dismiss the value in that.

I dont expect significant top end talent from a conpetetive team like ours
 
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Guided by Veseys

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I like the potential that a guy like Topi brings to be an impact player and the way weve pissed away depth talent over the years and havent utilized it on our own has been an ongoing issue, so i wouldnt dismiss the value in that.

I dont expect significant top end talent from a conpetetive team like ours
I really hope Topi develops into something special but it’s really depressing to realize that Sandin as an 18 year old Marlie crushed Niemela as a 21 year old. Sandin stepped in and was an automatic impact player for the Marlies.
Edit: oh Jesus, I just realized that Nylander plus Sandin probably would have gotten Tkachuk last summer. Ouch.
 

Bomber0104

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I like the potential that a guy like Topi brings to be an impact player and the way weve pissed away depth talent over the years and havent utilized it on our own has been an ongoing issue, so i wouldnt dismiss the value in that.

I dont expect significant top end talent from a conpetetive team like ours

You like 21 year old defencemen that are 170lbs?

That's below-average size at the OHL level :laugh:
 

IPS

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I really hope Topi develops into something special but it’s really depressing to realize that Sandin as an 18 year old Marlie crushed Niemela as a 21 year old. Sandin stepped in and was an automatic impact player for the Marlies.
Edit: oh Jesus, I just realized that Nylander plus Sandin probably would have gotten Tkachuk last summer. Ouch.
That shouldn't be depressing. Sandin looked to have great potential at that stage of his young career until the Leafs completely bungled his development.
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
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I really hope Topi develops into something special but it’s really depressing to realize that Sandin as an 18 year old Marlie crushed Niemela as a 21 year old. Sandin stepped in and was an automatic impact player for the Marlies.
Sandin was a good prospect , so im not too worried about that. Sandin's big issue was understanding his limitations and playing within them, if he can figure that out even now he'll be a good one
 

Cleetus

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You like 21 year old defencemen that are 170lbs?

That's below-average size at the OHL level :laugh:
I mean if you are watching Vegas play tonight with the size of their D, one win from the cup final, and think oh we need small defenseman lol!
Nick Hague 6'6 230 LBS
Alec Martinez 6'1 209 LBS
Brayden Mcnabb 6'4 216 LBS
Alex Pietrangelo 6'3 210 LBS
Shea Theodore 6'2 200 LBS
Zach Whitecloud 6'2 211 LBS
 
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Guided by Veseys

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That shouldn't be depressing. Sandin looked to have great potential at that stage of his young career until the Leafs completely bungled his development.
It’s kind of depressing just because at the time when he was the top d in wjc just looking like an absolute elite future top 4 guy we also had a young Matthews, Marner and Nylander tearing up the nhl. When Sandin came over and was putting up historic 18 year old numbers on the ahl it was almost overlooked because the present was looking so shit hot. And here we are!
 

IPS

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I mean if you are watching Vegas play tonight with the size of their D, one win from the cup final, and think oh we need small defenseman lol!
Nick Hague 6'6 230 LBS
Alec Martinez 6'1 209 LBS
Brayden Mcnabb 6'4 216 LBS
Alex Pietrangelo 6'3 210 LBS
Shea Theodore 6'2 200 LBS
Zach Whitecloud 6'2 211 LBS
If you don't have some generational talent like Makar, that format of D always seems to be good for the playoffs.

Tampa has something close to Makar with Hedman and even they go big and physical with their D every year.

Every inch of ice matters in playoff hockey and when you got huge guys with long reach that takes away a lot of those inches by default.
 

ShaneFalco

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QUOTE="Cleetus, post: 190539036, member: 145313"]
I mean if you are watching Vegas play tonight with the size of their D, one win from the cup final, and think oh we need small defenseman lol!
Nick Hague 6'6 230 LBS
Alec Martinez 6'1 209 LBS
Brayden Mcnabb 6'4 216 LBS
Alex Pietrangelo 6'3 210 LBS
Shea Theodore 6'2 200 LBS
Zach Whitecloud 6'2 211 LBS
[/QUOTE]
Some will say grit, size and the ability to check hard means nothing. Chances are they are also Dubas supporters to this day
 
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Bomber0104

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I mean if you are watching Vegas play tonight with the size of their D, one win from the cup final, and think oh we need small defenseman lol!
Nick Hague 6'6 230 LBS
Alec Martinez 6'1 209 LBS
Brayden Mcnabb 6'4 216 LBS
Alex Pietrangelo 6'3 210 LBS
Shea Theodore 6'2 200 LBS
Zach Whitecloud 6'2 211 LBS

Yeah and not to mention trying to peg Rasmus Sandin of all players as some sort of "upside" for Topi Niemela won't necessarily bode well for him as a potential NHL player either.

The truth of the matter is there's as many highlights of Sandin getting absolutely smoked than there are of him scoring points or doing something defensively well.

And let's not forget we were once again on track to bench him for the playoffs again this year after the trade deadline moves, hence the trade of him out of Toronto. :laugh:
 
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ShaneFalco

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I mean if you are watching Vegas play tonight with the size of their D, one win from the cup final, and think oh we need small defenseman lol!
Nick Hague 6'6 230 LBS
Alec Martinez 6'1 209 LBS
Brayden Mcnabb 6'4 216 LBS
Alex Pietrangelo 6'3 210 LBS
Shea Theodore 6'2 200 LBS
Zach Whitecloud 6'2 211 LBS
They just got haven't been goalied like the Leafs for 6 years
 

Larcos_Unal

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I mean if you are watching Vegas play tonight with the size of their D, one win from the cup final, and think oh we need small defenseman lol!
Nick Hague 6'6 230 LBS
Alec Martinez 6'1 209 LBS
Brayden Mcnabb 6'4 216 LBS
Alex Pietrangelo 6'3 210 LBS
Shea Theodore 6'2 200 LBS
Zach Whitecloud 6'2 211 LBS
Tampa went to the finals 3 years in a row, all their Dmen are mutants
 

Bomber0104

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They just got haven't been goalied like the Leafs for 6 years

I'll never forget "The Great Goalie-ing of 2020" where the Leafs were goalied by Joonas Korpisalo in a play-in round to make the playoffs.

He never goalied anyone ever before and never did again, but I guess just simply decided to do it to us, because he's a jerk.

Legend has it he's saving another goalie-ing for another team. It may come next year. Maybe the year after. Maybe never...we don't know!

You just never know with a guy like Joonas Korpisalo who out of the evil in his heart decided to shut down Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner, John Tavares, and William Nylander in a made-up play-in series to make the playoffs.

I'll admit this was the first time I ever heard the expression before, and like many other posters, I was sure Joonas did this just to embarrass the great Kyle Dubas and his contending Leafs team that year.

And then stopped doing that the very next round..
 

IPS

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I'll never forget "The Great Goalie-ing of 2020" where the Leafs were goalied by Joonas Korpisalo in a play-in round to make the playoffs.

He never goalied anyone ever before and never did again, but I guess just simply decided to do it to us, because he's a jerk.

Legend has it he's saving another goalie-ing for another team. It may come next year. Maybe the year after. Maybe never...we don't know!

You just never know with a guy like Joonas Korpisalo who out of the evil in his heart decided to shut down Auston Matthew, Mitch Marner, John Tavares, and William Nylander in a made-up play-in series to make the playoffs.

I'll admit this was the first time I ever heard the expression before, and like many other posters, I was sure Joonas did this just to embarrass the great Kyle Dubas and his contending Leafs team that year.

And then stopped doing that the next round..

Yeah but he set some save record against Tampa in some long ass OT game so that means he was goalie'ing Tampa until he just decided not to. No clue how Tampa won that in 5 games.
 

francis246

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Nov 16, 2007
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Hate to say I told you so, but I posted on these boards 2 months ago that this scenario would happen and Kyle would make a fuss about going to Ottawa. People literally laughed and said I was crazy. Ottawa is a mess, why would anyone give up the leafs job for Ottawa. Now, I don’t care what Kyle does. But I think it goes to show the dynamics in the league have changed a lot. No one is attached to teams anymore, there’s a lot more freedom and choice. If you’re up and coming you have options.
 
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acrobaticgoalie

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Hate to say I told you so, but I posted on these boards 2 months ago that this scenario would happen and Kyle would make a fuss about going to Ottawa. People literally laughed and said I was crazy. Ottawa is a mess, why would anyone give up the leafs job for Ottawa. Now, I don’t care what Kyle does. But I think it goes to show the dynamics in the league have changed a lot. No one is attached to teams anymore, there’s a lot more freedom and choice. If you’re up and coming you have options.
I dont know why anyone would think Ottawa is a mess. They are a young team on the rise. Their young players are starting to hit their potential and have more coming. They are already a team that is showing they can be hard to play against and will likely become one of the top teams in the east again in these next few years.

Now Pitt is a mess and can't see anyone wanting that job right now.
 

keonsbitterness

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There was no realistic pivot to do. You weren't getting better value out of that cap space than Matthews, Marner, and Nylander, no GM is going to trade away franchise players in their early 20s, and even if you could get better value out of Tavares' cap space, he had a NMC and wasn't going anywhere. It was also the worst time to try and trade big contract players, with tight caps and so much uncertainty around the league.
How about now? Boston said bye-bye to Joe Thornton at age 26 right after the lockout (a time of uncertainty due to a new economic system), and despite losing the trade it didn't hurt their long-term prospects. Our big guns are now all around that age.
 

ACC1224

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I dont know why anyone would think Ottawa is a mess. They are a young team on the rise. Their young players are starting to hit their potential and have more coming. They are already a team that is showing they can be hard to play against and will likely become one of the top teams in the east again in these next few years.

Now Pitt is a mess and can't see anyone wanting that job right now.
Agree with your thoughts on Ottawa but not on Pittsburgh. There are so few of these jobs that when one comes open and you need a job, you’re going to apply.
 

acrobaticgoalie

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Agree with your thoughts on Ottawa but not on Pittsburgh. There are so few of these jobs that when one comes open and you need a job, you’re going to apply.
The way I see it, taking a job in Pitts right now is setting yourself up for failure. Their core players are already in their late 30s. Likely aren't movable. Their best "young" player in Guentzel, who is 28, is a FA next year and is basically their only tradeable asset that can help them rebuild. They have a mediocre defense, questionable goaltending and one of the worst prospect pools in the league. They won't be competitive again till those core guys retire and they bottom out for a few more years after that.

So Dubas or whoever takes that job likely won't be given a leash long enough to wait that long and would just be fighting an uphill battle and would just tarnish their resume. Dubas already has a spotty one to start with. I get that if you want a job bad enough, you would probably take it but sometimes it's better to walk away from a crap situation and wait for something else. From reports, Dubas might be waiting for Ottawa, which would be a favorable situation.
 

leafsfan5

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There was always the theory that beating Tampa would or escaping the first round would catapult the Leafs into a Florida style run and they would just play free and full throttle, hit a new playoff level and just storm their way to the cup.

Now that that hope has been dashed, I wonder what people expect out of this team. Are we still hoping to win a title over the next 3-5 years and do everything possible to get there or are we just back to loving our core players a la Reimer, Kessel, Lupul and Phaneuf? Like they’re flawed and hopeless but at least they’re ours.
This year confirmed to me these guys will never win together for the reason you stated. In the past I always wondered and hoped that maybe winning the first round would get the monkey off their back and they'd push through. That is clearly not the case, and game 3 against Florida highlighted that this team will never change their ways

A foundational move needs to occur with the new GM at the helm, he can't keep doing this BS and expecting a different result

I'll never forget "The Great Goalie-ing of 2020" where the Leafs were goalied by Joonas Korpisalo in a play-in round to make the playoffs.

He never goalied anyone ever before and never did again, but I guess just simply decided to do it to us, because he's a jerk.

Legend has it he's saving another goalie-ing for another team. It may come next year. Maybe the year after. Maybe never...we don't know!

You just never know with a guy like Joonas Korpisalo who out of the evil in his heart decided to shut down Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner, John Tavares, and William Nylander in a made-up play-in series to make the playoffs.

I'll admit this was the first time I ever heard the expression before, and like many other posters, I was sure Joonas did this just to embarrass the great Kyle Dubas and his contending Leafs team that year.

And then stopped doing that the very next round..
To be fair, Korpisalo was doing something similar versus Edmonton in round 1 this year

The difference is their stars kept pushing and eventually broke through. It's almost like when you pay for high end offensive talent you expect them to make a difference, even when the opposition is playing well!
 
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Stephen

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This year confirmed to me these guys will never win together for the reason you stated. In the past I always wondered and hoped that maybe winning the first round would get the monkey off their back and they'd push through. That is clearly not the case, and game 3 against Florida highlighted that this team will never change their ways

A foundational move needs to occur with the new GM at the helm, he can't keep doing this BS and expecting a different result

If the reports of MLSE employees being "in mourning" over the dismissal of Kyle Dubas are true along with the Friedman reports that MLSE cuts may go deeper to rooting out the entire hockey department, it seems like there might be an organizational wide issue with emotional intelligence. Might not even be a core player issue.
 
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Knies iT

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Which of the following D are top 4D on a contending team?

Rielly (for sure imo)
Brodie (maybe though ideally a 4D)
Schenn (no he is not a top 4D but good third pairing)
Gio (not an NHLer now)
McCabe (dont think he would be for most teams)
Lilijgren (he was a 6/7 on our team , so would he be higher on other teams)
Holl (i don't think he is a top 4D on poor teams let alone playoffs)

The leafs defense is quite a mess at the moment.

We need to upgrade Brodie into under 30 2-way D who can move the puck and is good defensively (both areas whete Brodie fell hard last 1.5 years)

We need to find a true partner for Rielly as Schenn is a stop gap but not a full time player with him. This player needs to have physicality and a nice heavy shot

Rielly - XXX
XXX (#2D which we don't have)- XXX (brodie upgrade)
McCabe - Lilijgren

That is what our defense should be at the moment.

You can get away with the 2RHD if lilijgren steps up and getting a 3RHD isnt to tough

A #2D who plays the LHD and a good guy to pair with rielly are a must need
This has been coming for a while though. I suggested a retool after last season's Tampa loss because the D situation is looking bleak and it's going to get worse before it gets better.

#1: xxxxx
#2: Rielly

#3: Brodie (declining, 1yr left)
#4: McCabe (4/5)

#5: Liljegren (trending up)
#6: Schenn*/Timmins

Subtract Sandin. Muzzin done. Giordano contemplating retirement. Florida was mocked entering this season for their D, but outside of Rielly, their group of Montour, Ekblad, Forsling is better than anything we have.

This team needs a lot more work than initially meets the eye. Needs to get both tougher and faster overall. Need heavier top 9 wingers, need a quality 3C that can skate, and need at least 1x long-term top 3 add on D. Goaltending is, as always, a question mark.
 

myleafs

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May 25, 2021
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This has been coming for a while though. I suggested a retool after last season's Tampa loss because the D situation is looking bleak and it's going to get worse before it gets better.

#1: xxxxx
#2: Rielly

#3: Brodie (declining, 1yr left)
#4: McCabe (4/5)

#5: Liljegren (trending up)
#6: Schenn*/Timmins

Subtract Sandin. Muzzin done. Giordano contemplating retirement. Florida was mocked entering this season for their D, but outside of Rielly, their group of Montour, Ekblad, Forsling is better than anything we have.

This team needs a lot more work than initially meets the eye. Needs to get both tougher and faster overall. Need heavier top 9 wingers, need a quality 3C that can skate, and need at least 1x long-term top 3 add on D. Goaltending is, as always, a question mark.
Dont forget Gudas, guy has been a beast
 
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