Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[Golden_Jet]

If we traded them at the beginning of the pandemic, not only would we be trading them in an environment where teams can't easily accommodate and are wary of taking on big contracts, but we'd also not be getting value for their recent breakouts, and any replacements in that cap space (that are supposedly only possible with the loss of those players) are extremely unlikely to make up for the lost and wildly undervalued impact those players bring to the team.

Not sure where you got that idea. Sounds like the idea was considered and recognized as not beneficial to the team.

M Tkachuk was available last summer, maybe there could of been a deal with him involved to change the makeup of the core.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

2021-2022 and 2022-2023 post-deadline were our strongest versions of the team.

Really? Because I remember reports of Dubas looking into options and concluding that the offers weren't there. I think about Nylander specifically - he didn't hold the league-wide trade value at the time that was necessary for it to be worth it. And weren't there also reports that Shanny said they weren't going anywhere this year?

What are you even talking about? Star wars action figures? What? These analogies of yours never fit.
Matthews and Marner are incredibly special, even if they're wildly underappreciated by their own fanbase.

"Wildly underappreciated"? How can you say that? The fans love those 2.

 

[hamzarocks]

Sorry, why are we comparing our 9th and onward to primarily top 4 D?

Which of the following D are top 4D on a contending team?

Rielly (for sure imo)
Brodie (maybe though ideally a 4D)
Schenn (no he is not a top 4D but good third pairing)
Gio (not an NHLer now)
McCabe (dont think he would be for most teams)
Lilijgren (he was a 6/7 on our team , so would he be higher on other teams)
Holl (i don't think he is a top 4D on poor teams let alone playoffs)

The leafs defense is quite a mess at the moment.

We need to upgrade Brodie into under 30 2-way D who can move the puck and is good defensively (both areas whete Brodie fell hard last 1.5 years)

We need to find a true partner for Rielly as Schenn is a stop gap but not a full time player with him. This player needs to have physicality and a nice heavy shot

Rielly - XXX
XXX (#2D which we don't have)- XXX (brodie upgrade)
McCabe - Lilijgren

That is what our defense should be at the moment.

You can get away with the 2RHD if lilijgren steps up and getting a 3RHD isnt to tough

A #2D who plays the LHD and a good guy to pair with rielly are a must need

 

[socko]

That’s really cool! What assets do you spend on a 1C 1D and 1G now that you’re competing given that you have no picks to tank with?

It's just my opinion that it wasn't the worst trade ever. You're free to disagree. I think a trade closer to the one you're trying to make is the Tom Kurvers trade. Kurvers 27 was a decent player but nothing more than that. Giving a pick up in what was known to be the Eric Lindros draft was very ill-advised.

 

[BallardEra]

Giordano might be one of those guys the new GM moves or asks to see if he wants to retire.

 

[Gallagbi]

Which of the following D are top 4D on a contending team?

Mo's a #1, Brodie and McCabe are top 4. Then we have a glut of bottom pair guys, especially with Muzz going down (otherwise hed be our top 4).

Im not a believer that your #1 always has to play with your #2, so im fine with a Mo/Schenn pairing next year and spotting in extra minutes with our middle pair when needed.

Really we need another top 4 D or to bulk fill with another borderline top 4 guy, like Lilj. Im also fine to move on from Brodie, but he's easily a top 4

 

[Apex Predator]

Giordano might be one of those guys the new GM moves or asks to see if he wants to retire.

I think Gio is fine as a 7th dman as he has no value so might as well hold him as depth.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Well even if you're right and Dubas had no choice but to keep the core intact, he did a poor job building around them. However you want to slice it, Dubas was tasked with making the team good enough to compete for a championship and never even got close

He was tasked with making us good enough to compete for a championship, and he did, despite some pretty significant obstacles. We've been one of the best teams in the league for years. Nobody is perfect, but he did a good job building around the core and gave this team multiple really good shots.

M Tkachuk was available last summer, maybe there could of been a deal with him involved to change the makeup of the core.

Tkachuk wanted to go to the U.S.

 

[Apex Predator]

He was tasked with making us good enough to compete for a championship, and he did, despite some pretty significant obstacles. We've been one of the best teams in the league for years. Nobody is perfect, but he did a good job building around the core and gave this team multiple really good shots.

Tkachuk wanted to go to the U.S.

I agree with dekes he wanted to go to the states and wouldn’t signing long term here.

 

[hamzarocks]

Mo's a #1, Brodie and McCabe are top 4. Then we have a glut of bottom pair guys, especially with Muzz going down (otherwise hed be our top 4).

Im not a believer that your #1 always has to play with your #2, so im fine with a Mo/Schenn pairing next year and spotting in extra minutes with our middle pair when needed.

Really we need another top 4 D or to bulk fill with another borderline top 4 guy, like Lilj. Im also fine to move on from Brodie, but he's easily a top 4

What makes you feel McCabe is a top4D

He has little offensive game, struggled against flordia and hasnt had a history of playing tough top 4 mins vs hard assignments

Muzzin was decling hard when he was playing.

Leafs need to be proactive and fix the declining defense core

Brodie was borderline unplayable in the offensive zone this year and made too many bone headed and flat footed plays

We need to upgrade brodie and drop McCabe to 3rd pairing if we want a defense core which is strong enough to win in the playoffs.

 

[Gallagbi]

What makes you feel McCabe is a top4D

He has little offensive game, struggled against flordia and hasnt had a history of playing tough top 4 mins vs hard assignments

Muzzin was decling hard when he was playing.

Leafs need to be proactive and fix the declining defense core

Brodie was borderline unplayable in the offensive zone this year and made too many bone headed and flat footed plays

We need to upgrade brodie and drop McCabe to 3rd pairing if we want a defense core which is strong enough to win in the playoffs.

Simple answer is how he plays hockey in relation to the rest of the league. No point debating further, we wont agree.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Tkachuk wanted to go to the U.S.

Whereas that’s possible, he was also good friends with Auston so maybe he would have been convinced to sign.

 

[Buds17]

Burke often gets dinged for the Kessel trade, but I would make that trade today all over again. A 22 year old stud like Kessel for two firsts and a 2nd round pick. I mean that worked out about as good as it possibly could for Boston, but that wasn't a great trade on their behalf. Just plain luck for them.

The trade didn't make much sense for the Leafs because they weren't a playoff team prior to that move occurring. I also doubt Boston makes that deal with Toronto if they feel that the Leafs were going to end up being a playoff team as that likely would've diminished the quality of the pick(s).

 

[Dekes For Days]

Whereas that’s possible, he was also good friends with Auston so maybe he would have been convinced to sign.

I've seen zero evidence he was willing to come here. He wanted to be in the U.S.

 

[Antropovsky]

M Tkachuk was available last summer, maybe there could of been a deal with him involved to change the makeup of the core.

I said we should trade Marner for Tkachuk at the time he was holding out with Calgary, @Dekes For Days and a few other well known Marner defenders said "lol Marner is way better" or something very close to that effect.

 

[hockeywiz542]

I've seen zero evidence he was willing to come here. He wanted to be in the U.S.

Did The Maple Leafs Reject A Matthew Tkachuk For Mitch Marner Deal Last Summer? | SDP

sdpn

May 19, 2023

Steve, Jesse and Adam are joined by Chris Johnston to discuss the Leafs stars and the possibility of trading them and whether or not Toronto actually rejected a Marner for Tkachuk trade last summer.

 

[ACC1224]

Just a little bit longer and then they’ll be on the pens board.

As a life long Leaf fan I know we aren’t that lucky

 

[Racer88]

Who gives a crap what Dubas does with another team? He didn't win here.

Agreed but the pain parts comes from having to then listen to the Dubas supporters here telling us “I told you so. Lol

 

[Kaladin]

If Lou stuck around, he probably would have driven this team off a cliff, and we'd be begging to just make the playoffs again.

For a person who prides himself on being "objective" and "facts" oriented you sure do share a ton of opinions. Guess you know for a fact that if Lou had stuck around the Leafs wouldn't have made the playoffs again despite the actual evidence of him taking his next team to the playoffs (after they lost their biggest star no less) multiple times. Much further than the leafs ever managed in his absence. But I apologize, continue to look down on us from your fact-based mountain Mr. Days.

 

[Racer88]

We shouldn’t forget that a Dubas took a 105 point team and turned them into a 110 point team.
that’s a 1 point per year improvement………that’s good……….right. Lol

 

[Kaladin]

Depth chart write ups are never really that useful when you’re not comparing guys like Mete, Kokkonen, Koster, Kral and Niemela to the kind of opposition you’re likely to play against deeper into the playoffs.

Just try to visualize how each of those prospects will compete vs real final four defense corps with names like Pietrangelo, Theodore, Hague, Whitecloud, Slavin, Pesce, Ekblad, Montour, Skeji, Burns, Heiskanen.

This is what I don't get. No one can objectively look at the Leaf's D group and compare it to the other contenders and think it's perfectly "fine" as I've heard some say on here. It's sorely lacking.

 

[Racer88]

For a person who prides himself on being "objective" and "facts" oriented you sure do share a ton of opinions. Guess you know for a fact that if Lou had stuck around the Leafs wouldn't have made the playoffs again despite the actual evidence of him taking his next team to the playoffs (after they lost their biggest star no less) multiple times. Much further than the leafs ever managed in his absence. But I apologize, continue to look down on us from your fact-based mountain Mr. Days.

Hey you’re arguing with real facts that’s not fair. Lol

 

[Dreakmur]

Yes, I'm sure it's a coincidence that the Leafs just happen to get the exact same results against these goalies as the other teams that play them on their run to the cup finals. It couldn't possibly be that the goalies we've faced are among the best goalies in the world, with awards piling a mile high, and proven potential to hit peaks like this, going through undeniably dominant stretches by every metric and eye test. Surely we saw success against Vasilevsky this year and decided no more of that and stopped working. Boston and Carolina, the top two teams in the league this year, also clearly don't like working.

It’s unfortunate that Toronto wasn’t allowed to get a good goalie of their own…

 

[Gallagbi]

This is what I don't get. No one can objectively look at the Leaf's D group and compare it to the other contenders and think it's perfectly "fine" as I've heard some say on here. It's sorely lacking.

Honestly were watching a Panthers team play Stall as a top 4 D. Forsling is also prone to his own issues and they play him as a top 2. I like Dallas, and have been a Suter fan for ages, but they ride their top pair hard to compensate their depth.

Too many people look at their own team and mistakes in isolation. They also tend to look at the result of the error rather than the occurence.

I dont love our D and would make changes based on my own preferences, but its competetive with 2 of the 3 teams left. I do think VGK has the strongest D left, which is a tier above.

 

[Dreakmur]

This is what I don't get. No one can objectively look at the Leaf's D group and compare it to the other contenders and think it's perfectly "fine" as I've heard some say on here. It's sorely lacking.

First form the opinion that Dubas is infallible, then argue to support that opinion. That’s how people can think our blueline has been anything by mediocre.