Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[Dekes For Days]

Covid stagnating the cap is a true excuse. However where Dubas loses me is they didn’t pivot or adjust once that information was brought to them. Once they knew the cap wasn’t going to jump, they should have adjusted and tried something new. Or tried to move one of the guys.

There was no realistic pivot to do. You weren't getting better value out of that cap space than Matthews, Marner, and Nylander, no GM is going to trade away franchise players in their early 20s, and even if you could get better value out of Tavares' cap space, he had a NMC and wasn't going anywhere. It was also the worst time to try and trade big contract players, with tight caps and so much uncertainty around the league.

 

[francis246]

There was no realistic pivot to do. You weren't getting better value out of that cap space than Matthews, Marner, and Nylander, and no GM is going to trade away franchise players in their early 20s, and even if you could get better value out of Tavares' cap space, he had a NMC and wasn't going anywhere.

They could have traded one of Marner or Nylander. We keep saying they couldn’t do it, but it’s not true. They wouldn’t have been the first or the only young players to be traded.

 

[Dekes For Days]

They could have traded one of Marner or Nylander.

In a horrible environment and point of career to trade that type of player, and make the team worse in the process, but that's not really an option.

 

[ACC1224]

Covid stagnating the cap is a true excuse. However where Dubas loses me is they didn’t pivot or adjust once that information was brought to them. Once they knew the cap wasn’t going to jump, they should have adjusted and tried something new. Or tried to move one of the guys.

Seems pretty obvious. Really is remarkable how he refused to make the necessary adjustments.
Really looking forward to the day when people will stop talking about him.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Change your name to Excuses for Days Years.

 

[Apex Predator]

Just a little bit longer and then they’ll be on the pens board.

 

[francis246]

In a horrible environment and point of career to trade that type of player, and make the team worse in the process, but that's not really an option.

How do you know the team would be worse? You don’t know for sure. That’s the whole point. We’ll never know because it sounds like that idea wasn’t even entertained at all during the Dubas era. Which to me is crazy.

 

[Trapper]

Can you even get to Pittsburgh by boat?

If you cry a river over Dubas leaving then yes.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Covid stagnating the cap is a true excuse. However where Dubas loses me is they didn’t pivot or adjust once that information was brought to them. Once they knew the cap wasn’t going to jump, they should have adjusted and tried something new. Or tried to move one of the guys.

I didn't say it wasn't a true excuse, I said every team was in the same boat.
Dubas didn't have to sign 3 guys to top 5 cap hits in the league when arguably better players were taking contracts with less cap hit and/or longer term.

Downstream impact to being that top heavy is, no viable production from your bottom 6, close to zero offence from your d core, and crossing your fingers and hoping that reclamation projects like Campbell, Samsonov & Murray will work out.

Dubas' blind faith in the core was a fault, he dug in and didn't do what's best for the team...he just tried his damnest to prove that he was right. Only 1 round win proves otherwise, and that's a goddamn fact you can take to the bank regardless of how you try and spin it.

 

[francis246]

Seems pretty obvious. Really is remarkable how he refused to make the necessary adjustments.
Really looking forward to the day when people will stop talking about him.

Agreed, I’m not going to place it all on Dubas’ feet. Shanahan is a part of the problem. But the organization as a whole should have recognized sooner change was needed. I keep going back to it but the Montreal series loss was where Kyle could have secured his job long term. I think had the organization made changes then you’d have a lot of fan support

 

[weems]

How do you know the team would be worse? You don’t know for sure. That’s the whole point. We’ll never know because it sounds like that idea wasn’t even entertained at all during the Dubas era. Which to me is crazy.

Yes this idea that if you trade one of those players that it can ONLY end in your team being worse is pretty funny.

Maybe in a WAR type analysis but there's also things like aquiring parts that are more needed on certain teams or even becoming a more balanced team in the event you get multiple players back.

On "Paper" value wise you could lose that trade but that doesn't necessarily mean it cant make you a better team.

 

[Dekes For Days]

How do you know the team would be worse?

If we traded them at the beginning of the pandemic, not only would we be trading them in an environment where teams can't easily accommodate and are wary of taking on big contracts, but we'd also not be getting value for their recent breakouts, and any replacements in that cap space (that are supposedly only possible with the loss of those players) are extremely unlikely to make up for the lost and wildly undervalued impact those players bring to the team.

We’ll never know because it sounds like that idea wasn’t even entertained at all during the Dubas era.

Not sure where you got that idea. Sounds like the idea was considered and recognized as not beneficial to the team.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

They played like f***ing garbage the majority of the series. Did you see Marner in game 3 or Matthews in game 4?

No, they didn't. They converted badly most of the series. There's a difference, even if most people on this board can't recognize it.

"I didn't kill that man officer, I failed to not murder him"

"I didn't cheat on my wife, I was just bad at monogamy"

"I didn't steal that iPhone, I just failed to exchange funds for the item in question"

 

[Guided by Veseys]

If we traded them at the beginning of the pandemic, not only would we be trading them in an environment where teams can't easily accommodate and are wary of taking on big contracts, but we'd also not be getting value for their recent breakouts, and the replacements in that cap space are extremely unlikely to make up for the lost and wildly undervalued impact those players bring to the team.

Not sure where you got that idea. Sounds like the idea was considered and recognized it as not beneficial to the team.

Out of curiosity, I believe you felt this team has been a solid contender in previous years. Which version of the team in the last 5 years do you feel was the strongest version of our core led team?

 

[francis246]

If we traded them at the beginning of the pandemic, not only would we be trading them in an environment where teams can't easily accommodate and are wary of taking on big contracts, but we'd also not be getting value for their recent breakouts, and any replacements in that cap space (that are supposedly only possible with the loss of those players) are extremely unlikely to make up for the lost and wildly undervalued impact those players bring to the team.

Not sure where you got that idea. Sounds like the idea was considered and recognized as not beneficial to the team.

CJ on his show mentioned that this off season was the first time the organization was going to be open to even taking calls on the core 4. Prior they would not answer calls or inquiries for the core four.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Burke often gets dinged for the Kessel trade, but I would make that trade today all over again. A 22 year old stud like Kessel for two firsts and a 2nd round pick. I mean that worked out about as good as it possibly could for Boston, but that wasn't a great trade on their behalf. Just plain luck for them.

We had no 1C, 1D, or 1G, and we spent 2 lottery firsts on a soft winger who doesn’t play defense. But yeah it was a huge surprise that a team with.. Grabovski? as their best player ended up as a lotto team, no way to predict that kind of thing.

 

[Stephen]

There was no realistic pivot to do. You weren't getting better value out of that cap space than Matthews, Marner, and Nylander, no GM is going to trade away franchise players in their early 20s, and even if you could get better value out of Tavares' cap space, he had a NMC and wasn't going anywhere. It was also the worst time to try and trade big contract players, with tight caps and so much uncertainty around the league.

The core was managed like a precious collection of unique skill and talent, like mint Star Wars action figures not to be disturbed from original packaging, in order to preserve on-paper value. That preciousness was the problem to begin with.

Matthews is still the most unique one and I can see why you just build with him as the foundation. Everyone else? Big whoop.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Out of curiosity, I believe you felt this team has been a solid contender in previous years. Which version of the team in the last 5 years do you feel was the strongest version of our core led team?

2021-2022 and 2022-2023 post-deadline were our strongest versions of the team.

CJ on his show mentioned that this off season was the first time the organization was going to be open to even taking calls on the core 4.

Really? Because I remember reports of Dubas looking into options and concluding that the offers weren't there. I think about Nylander specifically - he didn't hold the league-wide trade value at the time that was necessary for it to be worth it. And weren't there also reports that Shanny said they weren't going anywhere this year?

The core was managed like a precious collection of unique skill and talent, like mint Star Wars action figures not to be disturbed from original packaging, in order to preserve on-paper value. That preciousness was the problem to begin with.

What are you even talking about? Star wars action figures? What? These analogies of yours never fit.
Matthews and Marner are incredibly special, even if they're wildly underappreciated by their own fanbase.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

CJ on his show mentioned that this off season was the first time the organization was going to be open to even taking calls on the core 4. Prior they would not answer calls or inquiries for the core four.

I doubt they have enough time to hire a GM and work out a trade, but goddamn do I wish they'd move on someone from the core. The organization needs to shake things up, call it taking a step back to take 2 steps forward

 

[socko]

We had no 1C, 1D, or 1G, and we spent 2 lottery firsts on a soft winger who doesn’t play defense. But yeah it was a huge surprise that a team with.. Grabovski? as their best player ended up as a lotto team, no way to predict that kind of thing.

So if I take each of Boston's picks and go one pick later I get:

Erik Gudbranson
Jonas Brodin
John McFarland

For 22 year old Phil Kessel.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I’m with you 100% It just kills me to see 2 upstart teams have so much success and us supposedly loaded with these awesome talented players and we flail and flounder in the playoffs year after year, lame excuse after lame excuse.
The next nightmare scenario that’s going to happen is when Dubas has success at his new team because he doesn’t have the nightmare team makeup that he has saddled us with. He will get a fresh start whil we flounder trying to fix his colossal screw ups

Who gives a crap what Dubas does with another team? He didn't win here.

 

[Gallagbi]

Depth chart write ups are never really that useful when you’re not comparing guys like Mete, Kokkonen, Koster, Kral and Niemela to the kind of opposition you’re likely to play against deeper into the playoffs.

Just try to visualize how each of those prospects will compete vs real final four defense corps with names like Pietrangelo, Theodore, Hague, Whitecloud, Slavin, Pesce, Ekblad, Montour, Skeji, Burns, Heiskanen.

Sorry, why are we comparing our 9th and onward to primarily top 4 D?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

There was no realistic pivot to do. You weren't getting better value out of that cap space than Matthews, Marner, and Nylander, no GM is going to trade away franchise players in their early 20s, and even if you could get better value out of Tavares' cap space, he had a NMC and wasn't going anywhere. It was also the worst time to try and trade big contract players, with tight caps and so much uncertainty around the league.

Well even if you're right and Dubas had no choice but to keep the core intact, he did a poor job building around them. However you want to slice it, Dubas was tasked with making the team good enough to compete for a championship and never even got close

 

[hamzarocks]

I'll just leave the last comment as, I truly believe you have no clue what you're talking about and haven't watched a single prospect of ours, and have no clue about prospect pools around the league, your takes are terrible.

Likewise you are a true homer who would bend over backwards to shill for the team

Keep enjoying mediocrity and consuming the homer journalists who brainwash folks like yourself to have such absurd takes

 

[Martin Skoula]

So if I take each of Boston's picks and go one pick later I get:

Erik Gudbranson
Jonas Brodin
John McFarland

For 22 year old Phil Kessel.

That’s really cool! What assets do you spend on a 1C 1D and 1G now that you’re competing given that you have no picks to tank with?