Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[Gary Nylund]

I think I am honestly more interested in the next coach question then next GM question. New GM has lots on table, but it is fairly defined. Don't envy it, but there is mostly black and white decisions, most of which will have already been decided by the guys first day on the job.

New coach? Now that is nuanced. What gets these guys going better in the playoffs? This is the ultimate question, and it's mostly for the coach, assuming we're not tearing it all down, which I really doubt.

I don't agree with this at all. There are a ton of decisions to make, probably more so than any summer since I don't even know when.

As far as Dubas goes, there's only one thing that seems crystal clear at this point - those people who said Dubas will never get another GM job in the NHL were way off. I hope he goes to Pittsburgh as I think he's a good GM and PIT won't be a threat for some time whereas Ottawa could be very good in the not too distant future so don't want him there.

 

[Brown Dog]

No player delivers production to the extent you want them to in every single series.

Fair point. For all the hoopla around Tkachuk right now, we held him in check pretty well.

Our big guys produced enough vs. TB but not Florida. In a vacuum you can live with that. Problem is, we have a pretty extensive sample size on our big guys in playoffs now and they simply don't dominate the way they do in the regular season or to the extent that we need them to in order to make a deep run in the postseason.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Give him a full season in a playoff race before that judgement.

Lots of players/teams play great in garbage time with zero pressure.

Even on our team of guys who crumbled under pressure he was notably bad.

I think Dubas actually sold pretty high on Sandin. A small, slow puck mover that is pretty questionable in his ability to defend is not going to net you too much. Especially if he is not in the playoff lineup.

 

[justashadowof]

I'm still befuddled that Shanny still intended to resign him. Shanny wanting to keep his puppet until his puppet stopped co-operating ??

I'm not filled with the greatest of optimism knowing Shanahan still has his hands in this thing. As I posted earlier, I'm hoping (against reality) that the next step is the board deciding to do an end around hiring of Shanahan's replacement while Shanahan is occupied with some busy work interviewing future GMs he'll never be allowed to hire.

 

[rumman]

I'm still befuddled that Shanny still intended to resign him. Shanny wanting to keep his puppet until his puppet stopped co-operating ??

It’s becoming apparent to me that just removing the GM won’t be enough to fix the team composition, I hope I’m wrong, but I fear it’s going to be “meet the new boss, same as the old boss…….”

 

[justashadowof]

I don't agree with this at all. There are a ton of decisions to make, probably more so than any summer since I don't even know when.

As far as Dubas goes, there's only one thing that seems crystal clear at this point - those people who said Dubas will never get another GM job in the NHL were way off. I hope he goes to Pittsburgh as I think he's a good GM and PIT won't be a thread for some time whereas Ottawa could be very good in the not too distant future so don't want him there.

It's an outside possibility that Pittsburgh could be some sort of last hurrah threat over the next season or two if they manage to add just the right short term bodies on the cheap. But after that, it's going to get ugly.

With regards to this summer, it's been nearly a decade since the franchise has been at such an obvious possible inflection point. This team could literally flip upside down to become a bottom feeder in a year or two if certain things don't happen this summer. And the coach won't matter a whole lick if the team can't even qualify for the playoffs.

 

[rumman]

I'm not filled with the greatest of optimism knowing Shanahan still has his hands in this thing. As I posted earlier, I'm hoping (against reality) that the next step is the board deciding to do an end around hiring of Shanahan's replacement while Shanahan is occupied with some busy work interviewing future GMs he'll never be allowed to hire.

It’s like having cancer in the thigh and amp your leg below the knee…….

 

[centipede2233]

It’s becoming apparent to me that just removing the GM won’t be enough to fix the team composition, I hope I’m wrong, but I fear it’s going to be “meet the new boss, same as the old boss…….”

As much as I am anti dubas, the damage is done and a new gm is not going to magically fix the leafs team composition. Some major decisions to be made before July 1. We are screwed lol.let the chain of incompetency continue….

 

[Warden of the North]

Fortunately the Leafs currently have $9M in cap space to acquire 8 players.

Sandin's contract is worth 1.4m. a better player can likely be acquired at that price or cheaper.

 

[rumman]

As much as I am anti dubas, the damage is done and a new gm is not going to magically fix the leafs team composition. Some major decisions to be made before July 1. We are screwed lol.let the chain of incompetency continue….

Improbable yes, impossible no, but now that the Dubas is gone hangover has passed, and reassurances have been conveyed to the big four that they’re not going anywhere, what is there to be excited about??????

Sandin's contract is worth 1.4m. a better player can likely be acquired at that price or cheaper.

 

[centipede2233]

Improbable yes, impossible no, but now that the Dubas is gone hangover has passed, and reassurances have been conveyed to the big four that they’re not going anywhere, what is there to be excited about??????

fire the coach! Lol

 

[Mess]

No player delivers production to the extent you want them to in every single series.

It requires enough player production to record 16 wins in a single playoff year to hoist the Stanley Cup.

Dubas built teams delivered just enough production to struggle to accumulate 16 playoff wins combined over 5 seasons. Darn so close !!!

You can't help but LOL when you hear and read "Run it back" suggestion with the same GM and same core, while swapping around a few depth players as the believed solution to address this.

Our former GM thought he could take his team's core ( Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, Rielly etc) current production from 3-5 wins in a single playoff year, to the required 16 wins, by bargain shopping and dumpster diving (while using limited cap space) filling out the bottom of the roster's depth expecting them to produce enough offense to provide the missing 11-13 games from the equation to win the Cup.

The only more nonsensical solution than that which was being floated was bring back the same failing GM and lets re-sign all those same core players proven incapable of more than 3-5 wins in a single season to even more $$ and cap usage. Yeah, that's the solution Auston, Mitch & WIlly aren't making enough money to produce enough offense to win in the playoffs, maybe if we paid them more they would score more.

Thankfully Shanahan pulled the plug, beginning with a new GM to course correct.

 

[justashadowof]

Sandin's contract is worth 1.4m. a better player can likely be acquired at that price or cheaper.

Stanley Cup Champion Washington General Manager Brian MacLellan disagrees.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Fair point. For all the hoopla around Tkachuk right now, we held him in check pretty well.
Our big guys produced enough vs. TB but not Florida. In a vacuum you can live with that. Problem is, we have a pretty extensive sample size on our big guys in playoffs now and they simply don't dominate the way they do in the regular season or to the extent that we need them to in order to make a deep run in the postseason.

Our playoff sample from Matthews/Marner through ages 19-25 shows that they can dominate in the playoffs like they do in the regular season, but in some series, they struggle to convert when going up against top tier goalies playing at the top of their game. Something that is pretty standard and common. The frequency might be a cause for concern if not for those exact same goalies (which have countless Vezinas, Cups, awards, and records) in the exact same playoffs doing the exact same thing to other teams, players, and stars on their way to the Cup finals.

 

[justashadowof]

Improbable yes, impossible no, but now that the Dubas is gone hangover has passed, and reassurances have been conveyed to the big four that they’re not going anywhere, what is there to be excited about??????


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There's the other inflection point that may be coming as well. It's the one where free agents aren't terribly interested in Toronto any longer because they aren't seen quite like the up and comer they once were.

 

[egd27]

Well, now that they "know" Shanny was "meddling" you can rest assured that if Dubas had been "allowed" to make moves they all would have been fantabulous and the result would have been 5 Cups.

but but but.....all those moves were brilliant, how could they not be Kyle's

 

[Dough72]

for years his teams tried carrying the puck across the blueline in the playoffs. This year they played pure dump and chase. That's proof enough Dubas had no idea what he was doing

 

[Dekes For Days]

It requires enough player production to record 16 wins in a single playoff year to hoist the Stanley Cup.

A lot of things go into recording 16 wins in a single playoff year to hoist the cup. It's lazy to just point to a couple players who already do the most and blame everything on them.

 

[koyvoo]

Losers stick with losers. This is psychology 101.

It’s incredible how a certain few fans have been right in predicting virtually 100% of the course this team has indeed taken over the past half decade. And another set of fans who have been very, very wrong, over and over again.

The writing was on the wall very early on. It is only an emotional bond to these players that allows that level of compartmentalization to win over logic, and what is now indisputable and demonstrated history.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

A lot of things go into recording 16 wins in a single playoff year to hoist the cup. It's lazy to just point to a couple players who already do the most and blame everything on them.

Wish I could feel bad for those players but they make 50% of the cap and as a result, the rest of the roster isn't good enough to contribute in meaningful ways. They fought hard for their contracts, they have to deliver when it counts...this is non-debatable.

No amount of mental gymnastics can change that fact.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Nikita Grebyonkin just won rookie of the year in the KHL

Woah, kid's got some wheels, can't wait to see him in NA in a couple of years

 

[WillTheThrill]

It requires enough player production to record 16 wins in a single playoff year to hoist the Stanley Cup.

Dubas built teams delivered just enough production to struggle to win 16 playoff games combined over 5 seasons. Darn so close !!!

You can't help but LOL when you hear and read "Run it back" suggestion with the same GM and same core, while swapping around a few depth players as the believed solution to address this.

Our former GM thought he could take his team's core ( Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, Rielly etc) current production from 3-5 wins in a single playoff year, to the required the 16 wins, by bargain shopping and dumpster diving (while using limited cap space) filling out the bottom of the roster's depth expecting them to produce enough offense to provide the missing 11-13 games from the equation to win the Cup.

The only more nonsensical solution than that which was being floated was bring back the same failing GM and lets re-sign all those same core players proven incapable of more than 3-5 wins in a single season to even more $$ and cap usage. Yeah, that's the solution Auston, Mitch & WIlly aren't making enough money to produce enough offense to win in the playoffs, maybe if we paid them more they would score more.

Thankfully Shanahan pulled the plug, beginning with a new GM to course correct.

Sounds like Dubas wanted to move on from the core, Shanny is the one holding on from all reports.

 

[Brobust]

Sounds like Dubas wanted to move on from the core, Shanny is the one holding on from all reports.

If that was true, Shanny wouldn't have gone into the Monday morning season end availability thinking the contract is extension is basically done and being happy about it.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Wish I could feel bad for those players but they make 50% of the cap and as a result, the rest of the roster isn't good enough to contribute in meaningful ways.

The rest of the roster is quite good, and better than it was prior to Dubas and those contracts. Which.. I don't think people really understand the miracle that is.
If we were looking for reasons it wasn't even better, we could look at impacts of the sudden pandemic-induced cap stagnation, or the impacts of our bad drafting and depleted prospect pool pre-Dubas (not to mention the cap anchors that had a cost to be dealt with), or the injury/health impacts we've faced during the Dubas era in both our roster and top prospects, but blaming it on having amazing players with contracts that they've earned and live up to? Sounds pretty silly.
When you have high-end core players, you always have options.

 

[3blizzard4]

Dubas thought he was the next Billy Beane. Barely won one round in seven years and now he is looking for a job.