Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[Leaf Fans]

So after listening to and reading a number of pro-Dubas podcasts and articles I'm hoping some of those that felt Dubas was a great GM can help me understand something.

It seems that Dubas has been treated unfairly as all of his decisions and moves had to be approved by Shanahan and thus, Dubas lacked the autonomy to perform the GM job properly. So does that mean it was Shanahan behind all of these moves that you guys defended as brilliant and Dubas was GM in name only?

Don't forget the players from the Soo.

 

[justashadowof]

These are our pro level defense prospects as of May 2023:
Niemela - best prospect, small
Kokkonen - marginal AHLer at this stage
Villeneuve - long term project
Hollowell - probably not qualified
Kral - oft-injured, perhaps could get better, RFA

Why did our former GM trade away Rasmus Sandin again? To make room for 2 temporary replacements: Schenn and Gustafsson?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Ya they really delivered in the series against Florida

No player delivers production to the extent you want them to in every single series.

 

[Warden of the North]

Could be wrong, but I don't think we'll miss Sandin that much.

Agreed.

IMO if he'd of stayed here his value would have plummeted in the near future. We "sold high" on him.

 

[Warden of the North]

These are our pro level defense prospects as of May 2023:
Niemela - best prospect, small
Kokkonen - marginal AHLer at this stage
Villeneuve - long term project
Hollowell - probably not qualified
Kral - oft-injured, perhaps could get better, RFA

Why did our former GM trade away Rasmus Sandin again? To make room for 2 temporary replacements: Schenn and Gustafsson?

Easily replaceable on the UFA market.

 

[weems]

Could be wrong, but I don't think we'll miss Sandin that much.

I think he will be a very good regular season offensive producer.

He will help a team become good offensively with his puck moving abilites, hockeysense and willingness to shoot.

He even brings suprising physicality for a smaller player.

The problem is his skating, defensive ability and dealing with a heavy forecheck.

Could be very similar to Tyson Barrie in that his offensive contributions are definitely legitimate but he will cost you on the defensive end and ultimately will need to be heavily sheltered.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

No player delivers production to the extent you want them to in every single series.

Don't cry cause it's over, smile cause it happened

These are our pro level defense prospects as of May 2023:
Niemela - best prospect, small
Kokkonen - marginal AHLer at this stage
Villeneuve - long term project
Hollowell - probably not qualified
Kral - oft-injured, perhaps could get better, RFA

Why did our former GM trade away Rasmus Sandin again? To make room for 2 temporary replacements: Schenn and Gustafsson?

Christ that's grim

 

[justashadowof]

Easily replaceable on the UFA market.

Fortunately the Leafs currently have $9M in cap space to acquire 8 players.

 

[Leaf Fans]

After 216 pages it’s pretty clear that the new GM and coach is going to have their hands full climbing out of the hole Dubas and Keefe have left us in

Yeah, 1 page of grievance and 216 pages of repetition, self aggrandisement, and I told you so.

 

[rocketman588]

These are our pro level defense prospects as of May 2023:
Niemela - best prospect, small
Kokkonen - marginal AHLer at this stage
Villeneuve - long term project
Hollowell - probably not qualified
Kral - oft-injured, perhaps could get better, RFA

Why did our former GM trade away Rasmus Sandin again? To make room for 2 temporary replacements: Schenn and Gustafsson?

Who are our best FW prospects besides knies? For all our gushing about the prospect pool it seems like we have a bunch of guys that are maybe good enough to be on the roster some day but besides knies aren't really stand out

This could be possibily because he's in the US and more in our face, but look at Niemela vs lane Houston ( someone drafted in between the pick we had and the one we ended up with after the mrazek trade)

He seems much more nhl ready in the small puck mover role even in his draft plus one year then Topi is

 

[justashadowof]

Who are our best FW prospects besides knies? For all our gushing about the prospect pool it seems like we have a bunch of guys that are maybe good enough to be on the roster some day but besides knies aren't really stand outs

Good question. The forwards are better off than the defense.

In terms of pro prospects:

I guess Robertson still has some serious upside if he can stay healthy. A healthy Robertson is no lock. He's got that goal scorer's quick release and instinct but he was kind of lost as an NHLer so far, not very good at forechecking or positional defending.

After Robertson and Knies, the best offensive prospect is Abruzzese who is very good on the power play but not otherwise IMO. Kind of like Bracco was.

Holmberg, McMann (27yo by September), Steeves aren't bad as potential support forwards. Minten and Tverberg seem like they may be at least be a prospect like this.

 

[rumman]

Can we stop this "4 forwards signed at half the cap screwed us" BS? When they signed, the expectation was the cap would rise and in 2 to 3 years those contracts would be standard rate for stars. Then this little thing called COVID... remember that..happened. NOBODY could have predicted something like that.

Counting your chickens before they hatch turns out to be a pretty stupid business model, who’d of thunk………

 

[Smif]

Before Matthews signed there were comparables for him

Eichel at for 8 years and McDavid for 8 years. No way he should have been looking at McDavid money; but the rumors were that Wasserman was seeking a contract even bigger than McDavid for 8 years. Matthews was willing to sign the 8 year deal it just would be much higher than McDavid's contract.

so Dubas bent over and gave him 11.6 for 5 years and to marner 10.9 over 6 years. Dubas has screwed the leafs so massively it amazes me how incompetent someone can be.


EDIT: Correction -> Rantannen signed after marner.

Even Rantanen signed for 9.25 AAV 6 years. no full NMC and no signing bonusses that are front loaded btw and Rantanen had two ppg seasons to show compared to just one for Marner. Dubas has screwed the leafs so massively; if i was at mlse i would have fired this incompetent hack long ago

View attachment 713521

Just an fyi the signing bonus / front loaded contract is more advantageous to us in terms of a more attractive contract to other teams if we're looking to move it.

 

[Apex Predator]

These are our pro level defense prospects as of May 2023:
Niemela - best prospect, small
Kokkonen - marginal AHLer at this stage
Villeneuve - long term project
Hollowell - probably not qualified
Kral - oft-injured, perhaps could get better, RFA

Why did our former GM trade away Rasmus Sandin again? To make room for 2 temporary replacements: Schenn and Gustafsson?

According to some when talking about Dubas drafting these two are hits!

 

[57 Years No Cup]

So after listening to and reading a number of pro-Dubas podcasts and articles I'm hoping some of those that felt Dubas was a great GM can help me understand something.

It seems that Dubas has been treated unfairly as all of his decisions and moves had to be approved by Shanahan and thus, Dubas lacked the autonomy to perform the GM job properly. So does that mean it was Shanahan behind all of these moves that you guys defended as brilliant and Dubas was GM in name only?

Well, now that they "know" Shanny was "meddling" you can rest assured that if Dubas had been "allowed" to make moves they all would have been fantabulous and the result would have been 5 Cups.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Just an fyi the signing bonus / front loaded contract is more advantageous to us in terms of a more attractive contract to other teams if we're looking to move it.

Yep. Signing bonuses and front loading are mutually beneficial things for both the player and the Leafs. At most, they'll help offset tax disadvantages, but they're not going to meaningfully impact AAV.

 

[Apex Predator]

Well, now that they "know" Shanny was "meddling" you can rest assured that if Dubas had been "allowed" to make moves they all would have been fantabulous and the result would have been 5 Cups.

Since Shanny was making all the moves they should like that Shanny was involved. They approve all Shanny moves since they thought it was Dubas moves.

 

[rumman]

After 216 pages it’s pretty clear that the new GM and coach is going to have their hands full climbing out of the hole Dubas and Keefe have left us in

Waiting for the new GM to burn it all down, and extinguish the toxic work environment………

 

[showtime8]

These are our pro level defense prospects as of May 2023:
Niemela - best prospect, small
Kokkonen - marginal AHLer at this stage
Villeneuve - long term project
Hollowell - probably not qualified
Kral - oft-injured, perhaps could get better, RFA

Why did our former GM trade away Rasmus Sandin again? To make room for 2 temporary replacements: Schenn and Gustafsson?

You can't have it both ways though. You can't have high draft picks and also be competing in the playoffs.

The Leafs needed to trade prospects and draft picks to maintain or at least try to win a series. Regardless of outcome, the sentiment is that the window is short and every team trying to compete has to do this.

You could also look at it and see that Holmberg, Woll, Steeves/McMann could all be on the NHL roster next year as well.

 

[rumman]

Fortunately the Leafs currently have $9M in cap space to acquire 8 players.

Trading overpaid slugs fixes that problem……..

 

[Smif]

Fortunately the Leafs currently have $9M in cap space to acquire 8 players.

I think a lot if people are adding Muzzins 5.5M to added capspace.

 

[weems]

Nikita Grebyonkin just won rookie of the year in the KHL

 

[ToneDog]

Well, now that they "know" Shanny was "meddling" you can rest assured that if Dubas had been "allowed" to make moves they all would have been fantabulous and the result would have been 5 Cups.

I'm still befuddled that Shanny still intended to resign him. Shanny wanting to keep his puppet until his puppet stopped co-operating ??

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Since Shanny was making all the moves they should like that Shanny was involved. They approve all Shanny moves since they thought it was Dubas moves.

Oh, you expect consistency from the Dubasites?

 

[justashadowof]

You can't have it both ways though. You can't have high draft picks and also be competing in the playoffs.

The Leafs needed to trade prospects and draft picks to maintain or at least try to win a series. Regardless of outcome, the sentiment is that the window is short and every team trying to compete has to do this.

You could also look at it and see that Holmberg, Woll, Steeves/McMann could all be on the NHL roster next year as well.

If you mean any 1st round picks and 2nd round picks, then yes a good team can manage itself to mostly keep those picks if they're developing their support talent internally. Other playoff contenders haven't spent their higher draft picks like drunken sailors on leave. Look at Dallas, Colorado (until last season), Carolina.

We essentially haven't produced a single fully formed defense starter for the NHL playoffs (apologies to Liljegren, Sandin and Dermott) since Morgan Rielly. That's where a large number of our draft picks (and support prospects) went. McCabe, Giordano, Muzzin, Schenn weren't fortifications, they were essential additions to keep the team's head above water defensively.