Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[PromisedLand]

This is also why I wanna get to the bottom of this Wasserman-Dubas-Matthews thing.

Did Matthews get overpaid cause of Tavares creating a bad internal cap example or was Dubie doing his childhood friend who owns Wasserman a favor by giving Matthews the most player-friendly contract in the league?

Before Matthews signed there were comparables for him

Eichel at for 8 years and McDavid for 8 years. No way he should have been looking at McDavid money; but the rumors were that Wasserman was seeking a contract even bigger than McDavid for 8 years. Matthews was willing to sign the 8 year deal it just would be much higher than McDavid's contract.

so Dubas bent over and gave him 11.6 for 5 years and to marner 10.9 over 6 years. Dubas has screwed the leafs so massively it amazes me how incompetent someone can be.

Aho signed for 8.4 a month or so before Marner signed.

Marner had 26 goals and 94 points on a stacked team with 27 year old Tavares. 4 roster players had more than 70 points. Marner had 2 goals and 4 points in 7 postseason games.

Aho had 30 goals and 83 points. Only himself and one other player had more than 70 points. those playoffs Aho had 5 goals and 12 points in 15 games.9 points between Marner and Aho stats. Aho plays harder position and scores more goals.

As a team, Carolina played less of an offensive style than Toronto. Toronto scored 286 goals that year, Carolina 245 = 41 goals difference. Meanwhile Toronto allowed 28 more goals against.

It makes little sense that Aho got 8.4, while Marner got 10.8. Also because leafs popularity, Marner was already getting more endorsement deals than Aho. Have to speculate that if 8.4 from Montreal was the best offer sheet Aho could get, then Marner couldn't have had other team's lining up to pay him 11 million over 6 years and give up 4 firsts. Yet we paid it?

Leafs had the leverage... No other team was going to offer sheet Marner 10.8 and give up 4 firsts. Didn't even get an 8 year contract.

Terrible deal.

EDIT: Correction -> Rantannen signed after marner.

Even Rantanen signed for 9.25 AAV 6 years. no full NMC and no signing bonusses that are front loaded btw and Rantanen had two ppg seasons to show compared to just one for Marner. Dubas has screwed the leafs so massively; if i was at mlse i would have fired this incompetent hack long ago

 

[PromisedLand]

Not giving Nylander a cent over 8.8m. I bet he is the sacrificial lamb because they won't move Marner. Based on this season, Matthews does not deserve more than Pasta let alone $14-$15m. But given he was already overpaid by the last GM they will have to overpay once again but I am not going over $13.34.

Marner will be up in 2 years. Again, does not deserve more than Pasta, Ranta or Tkachuk but given what the last GM gave him, we'll have to overpay to keep him.

So in two years, Matty 13.34, Mitch 11.893, Willie 8.8, and JT 4.91. 38.943. Wishful thinking ??

The way things have been going lately, concerning trading a core piece, running it back, new GM, smart GM, puppet GM, NMC, UFA, hard to say what is wishful or not.
This whole thing has as much of a chance of exploding as getting back on track.

we just need to find a competent GM who can use context in negotiating with available comparables and their own post season production.

No way Willy and Marner both are worth more than Pasta
No way Matthews should be making significantly more than Tkachuk. Tkachuck has had back to back 100+ point seasons and is about to play in the SCF

 

[Antropovsky]

Before Matthews signed there were comparables for him

Eichel at for 8 years and McDavid for 8 years. No way he should have been looking at McDavid money; but the rumors were that Wasserman was seeking a contract even bigger than McDavid for 8 years. Matthews was willing to sign the 8 year deal it just would be much higher than McDavid's contract.

so Dubas bent over and gave him 11.6 for 5 years and to marner 10.9 over 6 years. Dubas has screwed the leafs so massively it amazes me how incompetent someone can be.


Even Rantanen signed before marner did for 9.25 AAV 6 years. no full NMC and no signing bonusses that are front loaded btw and Rantanen had to ppg seasons to show compared to Marner. Dubas has screwed the leafs so massively; if i was at mlse i would have fired this incompetent hack long ago

View attachment 713521

Rantanen signed after Marner... There were rumored Rantsnem was waiting for Marner to see the market. After Mar er Colorado quickly agreed to 9.25. More proof that nobody was offering the money to comparable players that Dubas gave Marner. Just a ridiculous contract.

 

[justashadowof]

That they've become the exact people they can't stand

I haven't seen any of them become hiveminded acolytes.

 

[Brown Dog]

True. And I'm not a Dubite or Anti-Dubite. Just a Leafs fan. I suspect there are many like me.

 

[PromisedLand]

Can we stop this "4 forwards signed at half the cap screwed us" BS? When they signed, the expectation was the cap would rise and in 2 to 3 years those contracts would be standard rate for stars. Then this little thing called COVID... remember that..happened. NOBODY could have predicted something like that.

A competent organization doesn't work that way. There are no hail marys based on "expectations" but given dubas' tenure here where people were more content with expected bs/60 stats than actual outcomes on ice

just goes on to show why this franchise is laughed at by others

 

[ToneDog]

I've explained to him countless times how contracts work and why players, including those players, are paid what they are. He doesn't want to listen to the facts.

$11.634x5 based on this??

No wonder the Marner camp argued Marner was worth the money Matthews got.

It wouldn't be so bad if the two delivered something when the games count.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Rantanen signed after Marner... There were rumored Rantsnem was waiting for Marner to see the market. After Mar er Colorado quickly agreed to 9.25. More proof that nobody was offering the money to comparable players that Dubas gave Marner. Just a ridiculous contract.

Marner and his camp didn't use his peers as comparables, they used Matthews...that right there was the big issue.



Funny thing about this clip, Marner signed his deal the very next day.
7:00 minute mark is especially foretelling

 

[ToneDog]

Marner and his camp didn't use his peers as comparables, they used Matthews...that right there was the big issue.



Funny thing about this clip, Marner signed his deal the very next day.

And now there is only going higher for the pair because IMO MLSEL will bend over for them again, even if the new GM says not to.

 

[Trapper]

And now there is only going higher for the pair because IMO MLSEL will bend over for them again, even if the new GM says not to.

He isn’t taking less. Would you pay Marner 12 mil x 5 next? I wouldn’t.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

And now there is only going higher for the pair because IMO MLSEL will bend over for them again, even if the new GM says not to.

For sure, you've set a precedent and there's no going back. The team's options are to 1. continue overpaying and being top heavy with a shitty rest of the roster, 2. make an example and trade one of Marner/Nylander and reset the core.

Option 1 seems like suicide considering the top guys have no jam, no balls, and only show courage at the negotiating table

 

[KMNRB]

Marner and his camp didn't use his peers as comparables, they used Matthews...that right there was the big issue.



Funny thing about this clip, Marner signed his deal the very next day.
7:00 minute mark is especially foretelling

This is prophetic!

 

[Antropovsky]

$11.634x5 based on this??

View attachment 713542

No wonder the Marner camp argued Marner was worth the money Matthews got.

View attachment 713543

It wouldn't be so bad if the two delivered something when the games count.

One played with Marleau, Johnsson, Kapanen, Brown and Ennis....

the other played with 27 year old Tavares and Hyman

Linemates matter just ask Jonathan Cheechoo.

 

[justashadowof]

William Nylander did not have the shot he has now back when he signed that deal. He was chiefly a playmaker back in 2018. Today he's as much of a sniper as a playmaker. Those 40 goals weren't some 1 year fluke. He's scoring 40+ again.

 

[Trapper]

This is prophetic!

He’s right. When you set the bar, you have to deliver the goods. They haven’t, and now they are going to ask for more. Really?

 

[ToneDog]

Marner and his camp didn't use his peers as comparables, they used Matthews...that right there was the big issue.



Funny thing about this clip, Marner signed his deal the very next day.
7:00 minute mark is especially foretelling

Love the O'Dog, Tkachuk says you turn down $11m, I get 9m, are you high?

Dekes needs to put these clowns in their place.

 

[thewave]

He’s right. When you set the bar, you have to deliver the goods. They haven’t, and now they are going to ask for more. Really?

That's pretty much why Mitch needs retained on and shipped out. The cap for forwards has to be made sane again and the D needs some work on. He isn't worth the 11m. Matthews we may pay for the Rocket and his being a C but outside that we can't keep the 4 of them.

Dubas was a dummy, the fans pay the price. Board members and managers mostly just shrug and collect their money. It's Toronto, performance is optional after all.

 

[ToneDog]

He’s right. When you set the bar, you have to deliver the goods. They haven’t, and now they are going to ask for more. Really?

Off the ice, they got balls. On the ice, p***yes.

 

[thewave]

Love the O'Dog, Tkachuk says you turn down $11m, I get 9m, are you high?

Dekes needs to put these clowns in their place.

O was bang on with his mindset. That was the exact mindset to have, don't want it? Get out!

Beautiful clip that highlights now how greedy these kids were, not even Nylander. Mitch and Matthews,

 

[57 Years No Cup]

The anti-dubas people are starting to get just as annoying as the pro-dubas crowd

Dubas isn't a Maple Leaf anymore. You are free to follow him wherever he goes.

Tata.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Dubas isn't a Maple Leaf anymore. You are free to follow him wherever he goes.

Tata.

We are all free to follow any team we want with or without Dubas.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

Dubas should return

Yeah, to the Soo.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

I think we're past the point of 4 forwards making $40 million doesn't work as a philosophy. It's Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander doesn't work as a real life team.

It doesn’t work because none of them are willing to forecheck, go to the dirty places on the ice, or take the puck hard to the net.

They are all perimeter players for the most part.

Switching out a couple of them, for a couple of power forwards with grit would transform the team completely.

I’d probably keep Matthews and Tavares as a one two punch down the middle and flip Marner and Nylander out for some grittier wingers who can play with some jam.

Marner at center with a couple of grittier forwards on his wing might also work as well.

 

[ToDavid]

Dubas childhood friend owns Wasserman agency?

No, this story is becoming a game of telephone.

By Tomorrow it will be that Dubas owns Wasserman and personally represents Matthews.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

I don't even care if Shanahan did tell them that. What does he stand to gain by saying:

"Oh, by the way, you might not be coming back."

Keep them happy and if new GM comes in and trades them Shanahan can say it wasn't his decision.

Context and wording is important. And we don’t know what was said or how it was said.

It could have been something like we’re not intending to trade from our core.

Intending being the operative phrase.