Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[Superstar]

Rumors of Dubas wanting Sens job more than Pitts... Of course he does because that team has a strong young core in place. Similar situation to what he inherited in Toronto. The hard parts are done. Pittsburgh is a much more difficult situation.

Maybe allows him to lock up 4 young forwards with big contracts again...

Thank goodness he wasn't the one who was going to sign Stutzle.

 

[GoonieFace]

Can we stop this "4 forwards signed at half the cap screwed us" BS? When they signed, the expectation was the cap would rise and in 2 to 3 years those contracts would be standard rate for stars. Then this little thing called COVID... remember that..happened. NOBODY could have predicted something like that.

Doesn’t matter, they are just perennial losers. The sooner we move off this core, the better the future looks

 

[BallardEra]

Shockingly, you will still find many Leaf fans that want to run the core 4 back again, to the point that they're willing to believe Chris Johnston unverified reporting that Shanny told them all they're golden.

I don't even care if Shanahan did tell them that. What does he stand to gain by saying:

"Oh, by the way, you might not be coming back."

Keep them happy and if new GM comes in and trades them Shanahan can say it wasn't his decision.

 

[Antropovsky]

Can we stop this "4 forwards signed at half the cap screwed us" BS? When they signed, the expectation was the cap would rise and in 2 to 3 years those contracts would be standard rate for stars. Then this little thing called COVID... remember that..happened. NOBODY could have predicted something like that.

Aho signed for 8.4 a month or so before Marner signed.

Marner had 26 goals and 94 points on a stacked team with 27 year old Tavares. 4 roster players had more than 70 points. Marner had 2 goals and 4 points in 7 postseason games.

Aho had 30 goals and 83 points. Only himself and one other player had more than 70 points. those playoffs Aho had 5 goals and 12 points in 15 games.9 points between Marner and Aho stats. Aho plays harder position and scores more goals.

As a team, Carolina played less of an offensive style than Toronto. Toronto scored 286 goals that year, Carolina 245 = 41 goals difference. Meanwhile Toronto allowed 28 more goals against.

It makes little sense that Aho got 8.4, while Marner got 10.8. Also because leafs popularity, Marner was already getting more endorsement deals than Aho. Have to speculate that if 8.4 from Montreal was the best offer sheet Aho could get, then Marner couldn't have had other team's lining up to pay him 11 million over 6 years and give up 4 firsts. Yet we paid it?

Leafs had the leverage... No other team was going to offer sheet Marner 10.8 and give up 4 firsts. Didn't even get an 8 year contract.

Terrible deal.

 

[hullsy47]

Dubas clearly had his own agenda and knew what he was doing. Hes not a idiot. He tried to gain as much leverage as possible, and Shanny didn't appreciate what he was doin so canned him. If only Dubas had that kind of attitude when discussing contracts with Matthews and Marner...

At the end of the day, he turned his back on the Leafs and he can kick rocks for that.

For all the dubas lovers if shanny was making and approving all moves then shanny is a pretty good gm ?
U can't have it both ways

 

[Antropovsky]

Maybe allows him to lock up 4 young forwards with big contracts again...

Thank goodness he wasn't the one who was going to sign Stutzle.

Thank goodness for senators! Stutzle is on a dream of a contract, 8 years at 8.4 million! Somehow Dorion signed him a year before he was an RFA! Wow, how was he able to do that! Imagine if Dorion didn't lived by the slogan "if you have time use it" like Dubas. 3rd overall pick, Stutzle just finished with 40 goals and 90 Points... That's a 11 million contract if he was to be signed this offseason.

 

[ToneDog]

Thank goodness for senators! Stutzle is on a dream of a contract, 8 years at 8.4 million! Somehow Dorion signed him a year before he was an RFA! Wow, how was he able to do that! Imagine if Dorion didn't lived by the slogan "if you have time use it" like Dubas. 3rd overall pick, Stutzle just finished with 40 goals and 90 Points... That's a 11 million contract if he was to be signed this offseason.

Stutzle, Brady, Tage, Hughes all on great contracts. 40 goals and 90 Points is $11m if an incompetent GM is at the helm. M Tkachuk had 105 points last year and signed for 9.5x8. I'm using this guy as the standard when negotiating with the 3 amigos. So tell me again Mitch, Matty and Willie, why exactly you think you are worth more than Matthew Tkachuk ??

 

[WillTheThrill]

The anti-dubas people are starting to get just as annoying as the pro-dubas crowd

 

[Superstar]

Thank goodness for senators! Stutzle is on a dream of a contract, 8 years at 8.4 million! Somehow Dorion signed him a year before he was an RFA! Wow, how was he able to do that! Imagine if Dorion didn't lived by the slogan "if you have time use it" like Dubas. 3rd overall pick, Stutzle just finished with 40 goals and 90 Points... That's a 11 million contract if he was to be signed this offseason.

But, but Ottawa must be in a state-free-tax state...or perhaps Ottawa has to fork out massive signing bonuses every July like the way the Leafs have to...or perhaps he's got tons of endorsement deals playing in Ottawa that he wouldn't have received if he played in Toronto!

 

[IPS]

The anti-dubas people are starting to get just as annoying as the pro-dubas crowd

Payback for all the times I had to hear about Justin Holl being one of the best shutdown D in the league or Kerfoot being better than Kadri.

Stutzle, Brady, Tage, Hughes all on great contracts. 40 goals and 90 Points is $11m if an incompetent GM is at the helm. M Tkachuk had 105 points last year and signed for 9.5x8. I'm using this guy as the standard when negotiating with the 3 amigos. So tell me again Mitch, Matty and Willie, why exactly you think you are worth more than Matthew Tkachuk ??

@Dekes For Days

This is your time to shine.

 

[Arzak]

Stutzle, Brady, Tage, Hughes all on great contracts. 40 goals and 90 Points is $11m if an incompetent GM is at the helm. M Tkachuk had 105 points last year and signed for 9.5x8. I'm using this guy as the standard when negotiating with the 3 amigos. So tell me again Mitch, Matty and Willie, why exactly you think you are worth more than Matthew Tkachuk ??

They will tell you he also scored 0 in 2nd round.

The difference is MT is still a difference maker - making dirtbag plays when he is not scoring. When Marner is not picking up secondary assists I don't see him cross-checking anyone

 

[leafsfan5]

The anti-dubas people are starting to get just as annoying as the pro-dubas crowd

Yeah this thread has been a shit show for some time now

 

[justashadowof]

The anti-dubas people are starting to get just as annoying as the pro-dubas crowd

Yeah this thread has been a shit show for some time now

Complaining about a thread no one is forcing you to read is what you do when you're out of options.

 

[kevsh]

A 1B centre was willing to sign with this team and the cost was only cap space instead of gutting futures to trade for one.

There's already been numerous breakdowns of the domino effect of the Tavares signing, but I'd argue it was a horrible signing even at the time primarily because signing Tavares didn't address an area of weakness on the Leafs, rather bolstered a position of strength. In the cap era, that's not a luxury GMs can afford.

So Dubas allocated $11M in extremely valuable cap space to a 1C when they already had one (and a solid 2C in Kadri) instead of using that money to address the blueline which at the time had no true top pairing d-man with Reilly, Muzzin and Jake Gardiner as their top 3 -- and got really thin after that.

Then came the foresight Dubas should have had that Mattews was almost certainly going to be asking something in the ballpark of Tavares's numbers after the upcoming season. And that meant that Dubas should have recognized he was going to have $20M+ (more than 1/4 of the cap) locked up in 2 centers. Then he still had Willy, Mitch to deal with and Marleau's $6M on the books for another year.

I get the attraction - getting a 1C without giving up any assets is a GM's dream - but Dubas needed to resist the temptation that Summer and stick to the plan. Keep that cap space for not only the big 3's next deals but to address actual areas of need, most notably a very un-Stanley Cup caliber blue line.

 

[WillTheThrill]

Complaining about a thread no one is forcing you to read is what you do when you're out of options.

I find it interesting how the one's complaining about over-the-top "mourning" of dubas have become over-the-top vilifiers of him

 

[IPS]

There's already been numerous breakdowns of the domino effect of the Tavares signing, but I'd argue it was a horrible signing even at the time primarily because signing Tavares didn't address an area of weakness on the Leafs, rather bolstered a position of strength. In the cap era, that's not a luxury GMs can afford.

So Dubas allocated $11M in extremely valuable cap space to a 1C when they already had one (and a solid 2C in Kadri) instead of using that money to address the blueline which at the time had no true top pairing d-man with Reilly, Muzzin and Jake Gardiner as their top 3 -- and got really thin after that.

Then came the foresight Dubas should have had that Mattews was almost certainly going to be asking something in the ballpark of Tavares's numbers after the upcoming season. And that meant that Dubas should have recognized he was going to have $20M+ (more than 1/4 of the cap) locked up in 2 centers. Then he still had Willy, Mitch to deal with and Marleau's $6M on the books for another year.

I get the attraction - getting a 1C without giving up any assets is a GM's dream - but Dubas needed to resist the temptation that Summer and stick to the plan. Keep that cap space for not only the big 3's next deals but to address actual areas of need, most notably a very un-Stanley Cup caliber blue line.

This is also why I wanna get to the bottom of this Wasserman-Dubas-Matthews thing.

Did Matthews get overpaid cause of Tavares creating a bad internal cap example or was Dubie doing his childhood friend who owns Wasserman a favor by giving Matthews the most player-friendly contract in the league?

 

[justashadowof]

I find it interesting how the one's complaining about over-the-top "mourning" of dubas have become over-the-top vilifiers of him

Those two claims obviously go together. What's so interesting about that?

 

[Gallagbi]

This is also why I wanna get to the bottom of this Wasserman-Dubas-Matthews thing.

Did Matthews get overpaid cause of Tavares creating a bad internal cap example or was Dubie doing his childhood friend who owns Wasserman a favor by giving Matthews the most player-friendly contract in the league?

Dubas childhood friend owns Wasserman agency?

 

[thewave]

Aho signed for 8.4 a month or so before Marner signed.

Marner had 26 goals and 94 points on a stacked team with 27 year old Tavares. 4 roster players had more than 70 points. Marner had 2 goals and 4 points in 7 postseason games.

Aho had 30 goals and 83 points. Only himself and one other player had more than 70 points. those playoffs Aho had 5 goals and 12 points in 15 games.9 points between Marner and Aho stats. Aho plays harder position and scores more goals.

As a team, Carolina played less of an offensive style than Toronto. Toronto scored 286 goals that year, Carolina 245 = 41 goals difference. Meanwhile Toronto allowed 28 more goals against.

It makes little sense that Aho got 8.4, while Marner got 10.8. Also because leafs popularity, Marner was already getting more endorsement deals than Aho. Have to speculate that if 8.4 from Montreal was the best offer sheet Aho could get, then Marner couldn't have had other team's lining up to pay him 11 million over 6 years and give up 4 firsts. Yet we paid it?

Leafs had the leverage... No other team was going to offer sheet Marner 10.8 and give up 4 firsts. Didn't even get an 8 year contract.

Terrible deal.

That was the exact reasoning we were all giving at the time of the Marner deal. If you go look back at that thread it was guys like me going nuts pretty much. We all know it was terrible, just a nasty

 

[keonsbitterness]

I wake up every morning and have to pinch myself that I'm not still dreaming.

You should probably see someone about that.

Even though everybody around here knows that Steve Simmons from the Toronto Sun is a complete hack, he wrote a really good article today explaining why in his opinion, the mourning over former Toronto Maple Leafs GM Kyle Dubas really needs to stop.

SIMMONS SAYS: Deifying of Kyle Dubas just can’t continue

You know who else was nice? Dave Nonis treated his staff well, as did Cliff Fletcher with the Leafs. Both got pushed out 'cause it was time.

torontosun.com

Former Toronto Maple Leafs general manager Kyle Dubas. PHOTO BY JACK BOLAND /Toronto Sun

Kyle Dubas did not settle the healthcare crisis in Ontario, did not bring peace to the Middle East, and has as many Nobel Prizes as he has Jim Gregory Awards as general manager of the year in the National Hockey League.

In other words, none.

And yet, the over-the-top mourning for Dubas continues, as though he is irreplaceable and world-changing with the Maple Leafs, as if they won’t or can’t find anyone like him again. Because he treated people so well, the story goes. Because he was so loyal and so thoughtful.

Because the Leafs front office was all about ice cream and candy and almost everybody loves that.

But almost everybody didn’t love the past year in Leafland from the inside where there was more inner turmoil than there had been in Dubas’ previous four seasons as GM. He let pro scout and former director of hockey strategy Eric Joyce go midway through the season without explanation. That’s unusual. He oversaw the firing of the Marlies coaching staff at the end of the season. He took a well thought-of NHL executive and demoted him out of the front office and into the Marlies operation. His emotional outbursts in the box during games were unlike his actions in any other season.

That’s how nice he was in his final season in Toronto. You know who else was nice? Dave Nonis treated his staff wonderfully well, as did Cliff Fletcher with the Leafs. Both got pushed out because it was time to push them out. Not because they were nice people, which they still happen to be.

Big picture, Dubas took over a Leafs team five years ago that had Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner, William Nylander, Morgan Rielly, Nazem Kadri, Zach Hyman, Connor Brown and Freddie Andersen. Did that roster get better five years later?

Dubas got little for Kadri and Brown, and lost Hyman and Andersen to free agency. The big signing, John Tavares, then strangled the Leafs from a payroll perspective, not to mention the captain was slowing down in a league that is speeding up.

Dubas did some nice work bringing in Jake Muzzin, Luke Schenn and TJ Brodie, trading for Ryan O’Reilly, developing Timothy Liljegren and Michael Bunting, signing Mark Giordano on the cheap. But he also did some less-than-ordinary work, trading a first-round pick away for Nick Foligno.

This is what GMs do. The margin for error is thin. They have good and bad drafts. They make great and terrible trades. The nice guys do the job. And the not-so-nice guys do it as well.

This is not the end for the Leafs. This is another new beginning. The mourning over Dubas really needs to stop.

Closest thing I could find to Dubas as a deity.

 

[Antropovsky]

Payback for all the times I had to hear about Justin Holl being one of the best shutdown D in the league or Kerfoot being better than Kadri.


@Dekes For Days

This is your time to shine.

Incoming "cherry pick" statement

 

[WillTheThrill]

Those two claims obviously go together. What's so interesting about that?

That they've become the exact people they can't stand

 

[Dekes For Days]

@Dekes For Days
This is your time to shine.

I've explained to him countless times how contracts work and why players, including those players, are paid what they are. He doesn't want to listen to the facts.

 

[rocketman588]

According to Elloitte Friedman:

• there will be more fallout from the firing of former Toronto Maple Leafs GM Kyle Dubas.

• one thing MLSE is kind of thinking is: are they going to have to clear out everybody from the Toronto Maple Leafs department?

• do they (MLSE) look at it and say some of these people are not going to be able to function under a different leader? Friedman is sure that is one conversation MLSE is having right now.

• MLSE kind of thought that former Toronto Maple Leafs GM Kyle Dubas would be out and if he went somewhere else, maybe he would ask to take one or two people with him, but other than that, it is going to stay a lot the same.

• Friedman knows now that one of the topics that is being considered by MLSE is: are they going to have to clear it all out?



Senators sale, Dubas to PIT and Leafs GM search, what's next in the big 3 of NHL off-season?

6:03 | May 26, 2023

NHL insider Elliotte Friedman joins the Jeff Marek Show to discuss his latest thoughts on the Big 3 of NHL off-season topics, in the Senators' sale, Kyle Dubas' future in Pittsburgh, and the Maple Leafs GM search.

Tbh if this is the case I think it's good we're having a change.

If you're a upper middle management person yes I would be worried that I would lose my job (I.e. one if the 500 AGMs)

It seems like the random workers in like the analytics or marketing department are having these thoughts as well which is weird af.

Had a job in sports at one point ( at a way lower level) if change happens you just keep your head down and deal with it. It doesn't really impact the day to day unless there's mass layoffs

It sounds like he hired a bunch of people that we're only loyal to him for whatever reason. I have no idea why randoms in mlse would be having funerals, they're not going to cut these departments...

Wtf was this dude doing that people there have a cult leader like love of him it's weird (although I guess he did a good job of keeping everyone in lockstep so respect to him)

 

[PromisedLand]

There's already been numerous breakdowns of the domino effect of the Tavares signing, but I'd argue it was a horrible signing even at the time primarily because signing Tavares didn't address an area of weakness on the Leafs, rather bolstered a position of strength. In the cap era, that's not a luxury GMs can afford.

So Dubas allocated $11M in extremely valuable cap space to a 1C when they already had one (and a solid 2C in Kadri) instead of using that money to address the blueline which at the time had no true top pairing d-man with Reilly, Muzzin and Jake Gardiner as their top 3 -- and got really thin after that.

Then came the foresight Dubas should have had that Mattews was almost certainly going to be asking something in the ballpark of Tavares's numbers after the upcoming season. And that meant that Dubas should have recognized he was going to have $20M+ (more than 1/4 of the cap) locked up in 2 centers. Then he still had Willy, Mitch to deal with and Marleau's $6M on the books for another year.

I get the attraction - getting a 1C without giving up any assets is a GM's dream - but Dubas needed to resist the temptation that Summer and stick to the plan. Keep that cap space for not only the big 3's next deals but to address actual areas of need, most notably a very un-Stanley Cup caliber blue line.

I was on record saying don't sign Tavares. Our problem wasn't scoring goals, our problem was keeping the puck out of our net as our D was pretty weak.

Then everyone in the hockey media had was saying it was impossible to keep the 4 forwards and ice a competent roster, they're gonna have to tradeone of them. Then this moron of a GM goes out with the "we can and we will" trash and the rest is history!