Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[Hockeysawks]

Dubas making excuses. If the other team liked the deal they'd have waited the 3 days lol. Oh my God 3 days the horror. Most deal are verbal agreed to beforehand before business side too. There must be a reason protocol is in place that makes it longer to turn unofficial into official.

Other gms don't like dubas enough to give us good deal either in my opinion. Looking back we should have went with a non rookie with lots of contacts for better access to playing chips

Entitlement issues make him think the board should be working for him so he can build his PS5 team

 

[Trapper]

Given his speed, I would not go over $5m. His puck handling also seems to have taken a hit.

What’s funny is everyone is waiting for the Tavares contract to end in terms of cap management but after raises to Matthews/Marner and if Nylander approaches the 10 mark, (Tavares gets the current Nylander salary) we are looking at 4 forwards taking up half the cap. The same 4 and the same playoff issues just packaged differently.

 

[LeafSteel]

So we have antidubites being annoyed at the pro dubas media articles, calling out the dubites here that complain about the antidubites who tell the dubites to ignore the antidubas threads and posts, when the antidubites themselves can just ignore the pro dubas articles themselves....

Fun times we in right now.

​

 

[Mess]

I wake up every morning and have to pinch myself that I'm not still dreaming. It's over, it's really over !!!!

Mercifully, all this pain and suffering at the hands of an unqualified GM that should never have been hired, has come to an end for Leaf Nation fans with hopefully brighter times ahead now for the longest suffering & most dedicated fan base in the NHL. A greenhorn President, hires a greenhorn GM who hires a greenhorn coach well that is all on MLSE for their poor decision making.

While the seasons themselves might have all had disappointing results and conclusions, this current chapter of the story itself does have a happy and just ending.

Knowing all that personal time and effort spent these last 5 years fighting the good fight, was not in vain, nor for nothing, eventually ending up on the right side of the ledger of Leafs history, but that's not the true reward here .. Its that future hope has once again been restored with change.

Chalk up this small victory to the crest on the front as GM's, Coaches and Players come & go all the time but the Maple Leaf lives forever.

To a brighter future ahead !!!!

Die hard Leaf fans unite.

 

[Mess]

So we have antidubites being annoyed at the pro dubas media articles, calling out the dubites here that complain about the antidubites who tell the dubites to ignore the antidubas threads and posts, when the antidubites themselves can just ignore the pro dubas articles themselves....

Fun times we in right now.

Well technically there is no such thing as any antiDubites (anti meaning opposed to; against), because there is no longer a Kyle Dubas employed by MLSE, that bitter battle has been fought and won and now ended when Shanahan walked into Dubas office and said your out. Once Dubas lands somewhere else he becomes that teams headache, no longer a Leaf Nation problem.

Now Leaf Nation only has pro-Maple-Leaf fans vs. pro-Dubas fans battles raging on.

Those fans being referred to as "Dubites" either must accept defeat once they're done mourning, and come back over to the Maple Leaf side in continued support of the team, or follow their fallen hero out the door and to where he eventually ends up. The true test for where your fan support and loyalty lies.

However I would expect the most loyal fans to Dubas himself, to now take a larger anti-New-Leafs-GM position stance much like we're see happening in the media of picking sides and reporting with a very slanted and bias approach to ongoing events.

 

[Peasy]

Well technically there is no such thing as any antiDubites (anti meaning opposed to; against), because there is no longer a Kyle Dubas employed by MLSE, that bitter battle has been fought and won and now ended when Shanahan walked into Dubas office and said your out.

Now Leaf Nation only has pro-Maple-Leaf fans vs. pro-Dubas fans battles raging on.

Those fans being referred to as "Dubites" either must accept defeat once they're done mourning, and come back over to the Maple Leaf side in continued support of the team, or follow their fallen hero out the door and to where he eventually ends up.

However I would expect the most loyal fans to Dubas himself, to now take a larger anti-New-Leafs-GM position stance much like we're see happening in the media of picking sides and reporting with a very slanted and bias approach to ongoing events.

So just like you have when Dubas was the gm?

 

[ToneDog]

What’s funny is everyone is waiting for the Tavares contract to end in terms of cap management but after raises to Matthews/Marner and if Nylander approaches the 10 mark, (Tavares gets the current Nylander salary) we are looking at 4 forwards taking up half the cap. The same 4 and the same playoff issues just packaged differently.

Not giving Nylander a cent over 8.8m. I bet he is the sacrificial lamb because they won't move Marner. Based on this season, Matthews does not deserve more than Pasta let alone $14-$15m. But given he was already overpaid by the last GM they will have to overpay once again but I am not going over $13.34.

Marner will be up in 2 years. Again, does not deserve more than Pasta, Ranta or Tkachuk but given what the last GM gave him, we'll have to overpay to keep him.

So in two years, Matty 13.34, Mitch 11.893, Willie 8.8, and JT 4.91. 38.943. Wishful thinking ??

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Well technically there is no such thing as any antiDubites (anti meaning opposed to; against), because there is no longer a Kyle Dubas employed by MLSE, that bitter battle has been fought and won and now ended when Shanahan walked into Dubas office and said your out.

Now Leaf Nation only has pro-Maple-Leaf fans vs. pro-Dubas fans battles raging on.

Those fans being referred to as "Dubites" either must accept defeat once they're done mourning, and come back over to the Maple Leaf side in continued support of the team, or follow their fallen hero out the door and to where he eventually ends up.

However I would expect the most loyal fans to Dubas himself, to now take a larger anti-New-Leafs-GM position stance much like we're see happening in the media of picking sides and reporting with a very slanted and bias approach to ongoing events.

Dubas supporters just doing their damnest to hang onto the narrative that the boy genius was successful when he accomplished ONE series win

 

[ToneDog]

I wake up every morning and have to pinch myself that I'm not still dreaming. It's over, it's really over !!!!

Mercifully, all this pain and suffering at the hands of an qualified GM that should never have been hired, has come to an end for Leaf Nation fans with hopefully brighter times ahead now for the longest suffering & most dedicated fan base in the NHL. A greenhorn President, hires and greenhorn GM who hires a greenhorn coach well that is all on MLSE for their poor decision making.

While the seasons themselves might have all had disappointing results and conclusions, this current chapter of the story itself does have a happy and just ending.

Knowing all that personal time and effort spent these last 5 years fighting the good fight, was not in vain, nor for nothing, eventually ending up on the right side of the ledger of Leafs history, but that's not the true reward here .. Its that future hope has once again been restored with change.

Chalk up this small victory to the crest on the front as GM's, Coaches and Players come all the time but the Maple Leaf lives forever.

View attachment 713456

To a brighter future ahead !!!!

Guessing you meant, "Mercifully, all this pain and suffering at the hands of an unqualified GM"?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Well technically there is no such thing as any antiDubites (anti meaning opposed to; against), because there is no longer a Kyle Dubas employed by MLSE, that bitter battle has been fought and won and now ended when Shanahan walked into Dubas office and said your out.

Now Leaf Nation only has pro-Maple-Leaf fans vs. pro-Dubas fans battles raging on.

Those fans being referred to as "Dubites" either must accept defeat once they're done mourning, and come back over to the Maple Leaf side in continued support of the team, or follow their fallen hero out the door and to where he eventually ends up.

However I would expect the most loyal fans to Dubas himself, to now take a larger anti-New-Leafs-GM position stance much like we're see happening in the media of picking sides and reporting with a very slanted and bias approach to ongoing events.

Thread winner!

 

[Pinkcat]

What’s funny is everyone is waiting for the Tavares contract to end in terms of cap management but after raises to Matthews/Marner and if Nylander approaches the 10 mark, (Tavares gets the current Nylander salary) we are looking at 4 forwards taking up half the cap. The same 4 and the same playoff issues just packaged differently.

It is actually not funny but is a very real possibility. Just for the sake of what if, what if McDavid did want to sign here in 3 years. How would that work when you have 5 forwards consuming 55-60 million of cap space. One or two have to go and the roster construction needs to be balanced.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

It is actually not funny but is a very real possibility. Just for the sake of what if, what if McDavid did want to sign here in 3 years. How would that work when you have 5 forwards consuming 55-60 million of cap space. One or two have to go and the roster construction needs to be balanced.

This has been the problem for 5 years now, top heavy reliance on 4 guys to do everything while using below average solutions on your bottom 6, d core and goaltending.

 

[Trapper]

It is actually not funny but is a very real possibility. Just for the sake of what if, what if McDavid did want to sign here in 3 years. How would that work when you have 5 forwards consuming 55-60 million of cap space. One or two have to go and the roster construction needs to be balanced.

If McDavid want to sign and the other 3 are here, you trade the 2 wingers in packages that net you about 6 players with decent salaries to put around them.

 

[Apex Predator]

If McDavid want to sign and the other 3 are here, you trade the 2 wingers in packages that net you about 6 players with decent salaries to put around them.

What if the guys have NMC and refuse to waive?

 

[Metroid]

Well technically there is no such thing as any antiDubites (anti meaning opposed to; against), because there is no longer a Kyle Dubas employed by MLSE, that bitter battle has been fought and won and now ended when Shanahan walked into Dubas office and said your out. Once Dubas lands somewhere else he becomes that teams headache, no longer a Leaf Nation problem.

Now Leaf Nation only has pro-Maple-Leaf fans vs. pro-Dubas fans battles raging on.

Those fans being referred to as "Dubites" either must accept defeat once they're done mourning, and come back over to the Maple Leaf side in continued support of the team, or follow their fallen hero out the door and to where he eventually ends up.

However I would expect the most loyal fans to Dubas himself, to now take a larger anti-New-Leafs-GM position stance much like we're see happening in the media of picking sides and reporting with a very slanted and bias approach to ongoing events.

I was ok with dubas coming back, I'm ok with moving on with someone new. Just like how there was lou vs dube we now will have dube vs whoever.. I still feel the super pro dubas crowd are leaf fans, they will cheer and be happy if we win. Sure they're upset dubas is gone. Time will heal all wounds. The overaly super happy crowd that dubas is gone at this point is sorta just rubbing salt In the wounds. It's over, he's gone, let's all hope this is for the better.
Go leafs go!

 

[rumman]

Well technically there is no such thing as any antiDubites (anti meaning opposed to; against), because there is no longer a Kyle Dubas employed by MLSE, that bitter battle has been fought and won and now ended when Shanahan walked into Dubas office and said your out. Once Dubas lands somewhere else he becomes that teams headache, no longer a Leaf Nation problem.

Now Leaf Nation only has pro-Maple-Leaf fans vs. pro-Dubas fans battles raging on.

Those fans being referred to as "Dubites" either must accept defeat once they're done mourning, and come back over to the Maple Leaf side in continued support of the team, or follow their fallen hero out the door and to where he eventually ends up.

However I would expect the most loyal fans to Dubas himself, to now take a larger anti-New-Leafs-GM position stance much like we're see happening in the media of picking sides and reporting with a very slanted and bias approach to ongoing events.

word..........

Not giving Nylander a cent over 8.8m. I bet he is the sacrificial lamb because they won't move Marner. Based on this season, Matthews does not deserve more than Pasta let alone $14-$15m. But given he was already overpaid by the last GM they will have to overpay once again but I am not going over $13.34.

Marner will be up in 2 years. Again, does not deserve more than Pasta, Ranta or Tkachuk but given what the last GM gave him, we'll have to overpay to keep him.

So in two years, Matty 13.34, Mitch 11.893, Willie 8.8, and JT 4.91. 38.943. Wishful thinking ??

someone or someone's need to go for cap reasons alone..........

 

[Byron Bitz]

Not giving Nylander a cent over 8.8m. I bet he is the sacrificial lamb because they won't move Marner. Based on this season, Matthews does not deserve more than Pasta let alone $14-$15m. But given he was already overpaid by the last GM they will have to overpay once again but I am not going over $13.34.

Marner will be up in 2 years. Again, does not deserve more than Pasta, Ranta or Tkachuk but given what the last GM gave him, we'll have to overpay to keep him.

So in two years, Matty 13.34, Mitch 11.893, Willie 8.8, and JT 4.91. 38.943. Wishful thinking ??

But you don’t base negotiations on one season. Matthews deserves more than Pasta.

 

[Martin Skoula]

This has been the problem for 5 years now, top heavy reliance on 4 guys to do everything while using below average solutions on your bottom 6, d core and goaltending.

We spent more than most contenders on our bottom-6 most years though, the money is clearly available.

Tampa’s F structure:
3 top guys (Stamkos, Kuch, Point at 8.5-9.5)
1 Nylander priced guy (Cirelli at 6.2)
Killorn at 4.5
1 Kerfoot priced guy (Paul at 3.2)

Everyone else was either a league minimum signing or a Hagel/Jeannot/Goodrow on retained contracts around mil. We have the same structure but with Engvall/Jarnkrok types floating around at 2 mil instead of Killorn.

Their G is better because they drafted a borderline generational goalie. Their D is better because they drafted a borderline generational 6’6 freak of a D-man. The adds they made on D aren’t more expensive than the ones we’ve made (Muzzin = McDonagh, Cernak = Brodie capwise).

You can pay 3 forwards max contracts at 16 each or whatever the ceiling is these days and still be fine as long as:

1) those forwards deliver 16+ mil worth of value when it counts
2) your pro scouting picks the right filler players (Perry over Simmonds, Acciari over NAK, etc)

 

[tmlfan98]

Many posters are now so caught up in agendas and hindsight bias that they are forgetting the fundamentals of team building that justified the Tavares signing in the first place.

A 1B centre was willing to sign with this team and the cost was only cap space instead of gutting futures to trade for one. The problem always was and always will be re-signing Marner to the richest contract ever handed to an RFA winger (13.3% of the cap on only a 6 year deal for an RFA winger to this day still has no close comparables), and the mind-boggling 8 year extension for Rielly that will age like milk.

Almost all teams that consistently contend for the cup have elite pieces at the top that play key positions (Multiple 1Cs, a minute munching all-situational 1D, a steady 1G that fits the coach's system, etc). Elite wingers are the least important position to be spending large chunks of cap space on, and Rielly is one-dimensional and not an all-situational minute-muncher.

Marner should have been gone in the 2019 offseason by allowing him to take the massive 12x7 offer sheet that came from Columbus and moving on with the four 1st round picks in offer sheet compensation. Rielly should have been gone either at the 2020 draft before the M-NTC kicked in on his previous deal with 2 seasons remaining (Rielly at 5x2 could have netted an insane trade return with no NTC on his contract), or during the 2021 offseason with 1 year remaining after all signing bonuses were paid on his previous deal. Instead Dubas re-signed Rielly before the 2021-22 season started.

Matthews (1A centre), Tavares (1B centre) and Nylander (talented offensive winger who outperformed his cap hit) are never pieces that serious contending teams would pass up on or move off of. The Marner and Rielly contracts however are essentially burned cap space that could have been spent more effectively and efficiently elsewhere.

I also want to mention some other non-core pieces that qualify as cap space that Dubas burned:
-Not trading Freddy Andersen after Babcock was fired. Freddy fit Babcock's system, but was not a fit for Keefe's system and it became very clear early on after Keefe was promoted. Dubas' loyalty to Freddy because he was a popular teammate was a mistake and 5Mx2 burned.
-The Mrazek (3.8x3 for a 1B) and Murray (4.6x2 glass 1B) additions. In the absence of a truly elite 1G I had wanted the Leafs to go cheap in net for a while so they could spend more cap elsewhere since non-elite goalies mostly succeed based on system fit. Instead Dubas takes on 1Bs with significant cap hit and term in back to back offseasons, just praying they fit Keefe's system.
-The Nick Ritchie (2.5x2) signing. Players like him only succeed in the slow-skating Pacific division and Dubas should have done his homework on this one.
-Being too loyal to Kerfoot just because he was a key part of the bad Kadri trade. Also being too loyal to Holl in general. The combined 5.5M in cap between those 2 definitely could have been spent better elsewhere.
-Paying a 1st to move off of Marleau's 6.25M cap hit in order to re-sign Johnsson and Kapanen to a combined 6.6M, when Johnsson and Kapanen never should have been re-signed to those deals in the first place. Their RFA rights should have both been moved at the 2019 draft and Dubas should have just eaten the last year of Marleau's deal. There's a reason why Tulsky jumped at the opportunity to eat the last year of the Marleau deal even though Carolina is a playoff team. 1st round picks should not be given up that easily.

 

[saffronleaf]

Dubas should return

 

[Warden of the North]

The Sandin trade was also a bad one.

Give him a full season in a playoff race before that judgement.

Lots of players/teams play great in garbage time with zero pressure.

Even on our team of guys who crumbled under pressure he was notably bad.

 

[ToneDog]

But you don’t base negotiations on one season. Matthews deserves more than Pasta.

Some base contracts on what the player will do in the future and the last season and playoffs would factor in for me some if I was GM. Are we getting the Matty who just put up 40g and 85 points or the Matty who won the Rocket and Hart ?? What happened to the Matthews that used to drive to the net and made goalies look silly?

They both have one 60 goal season. If not for McDavid, Pasta gets another Rocket and the Hart. Even so how much more than Pasta is Matty worth ?? Don't forget Pasta also coming off a contract he outperformed and just signed for 8 more years? I said $2+m which is more than fair IMO. If I had any hint that he has a chronic wrist injury, I may not even want to go to $13m.

 

[Stephen]

What big name defence men was moved last/this year?

Chychrun?

Pass.

God these reports of people in the org not being able to work for anyone other than Dubas is just absolutely pathetic and should be cleaned up immediately.

By process of elimination, I'm guessing that mystery defenseman would have made more money than Matt Murray, whose real world cap hit for next season is $6 million and the Leafs most expensive acquisition during the offseason and season. Assume this would need board approval.

Off the top of my head, Ryan McDonagh, Mattias Ekholm were defensemen who made above $6 million who were moved at some point last season...

However, the salary cap would have prevented these guys from being acquired without bigger dollars going out. So if it's a dollar in dollar out, why would the board care that much?

Brent Burns moved in the offseason with massive retention from SJ, but I think he wanted to go to Dallas or Carolina, so we can't blame Dubas or MLSE for that missed opportunity.

My other guess is maybe Erik Karlsson from San Jose, which was a light rumour in the background. But again. With that massive contract how on earth would the Leafs had been able to fit it in unless they were ready to move out someone like Tavares for him? I could see how that would require board approval for branding purposes, but NMC's and all.

Doesn't add up.

 

[Stephen]

Give him a full season in a playoff race before that judgement.

Lots of players/teams play great in garbage time with zero pressure.

Even on our team of guys who crumbled under pressure he was notably bad.

Could be wrong, but I don't think we'll miss Sandin that much.

 

[hamzarocks]

Many posters are now so caught up in agendas and hindsight bias that they are forgetting the fundamentals of team building that justified the Tavares signing in the first place.

A 1B centre was willing to sign with this team and the cost was only cap space instead of gutting futures to trade for one. The problem always was and always will be re-signing Marner to the richest contract ever handed to an RFA winger (13.3% of the cap on only a 6 year deal for an RFA winger to this day still has no close comparables), and the mind-boggling 8 year extension for Rielly that will age like milk.

Almost all teams that consistently contend for the cup have elite pieces at the top that play key positions (Multiple 1Cs, a minute munching all-situational 1D, a steady 1G that fits the coach's system, etc). Elite wingers are the least important position to be spending large chunks of cap space on, and Rielly is one-dimensional and not an all-situational minute-muncher.

Marner should have been gone in the 2019 offseason by allowing him to take the massive 12x7 offer sheet that came from Columbus and moving on with the four 1st round picks in offer sheet compensation. Rielly should have been gone either at the 2020 draft before the M-NTC kicked in on his previous deal with 2 seasons remaining (Rielly at 5x2 could have netted an insane trade return with no NTC on his contract), or during the 2021 offseason with 1 year remaining after all signing bonuses were paid on his previous deal. Instead Dubas re-signed Rielly before the 2021-22 season started.

Matthews (1A centre), Tavares (1B centre) and Nylander (talented offensive winger who outperformed his cap hit) are never pieces that serious contending teams would pass up on or move off of. The Marner and Rielly contracts however are essentially burned cap space that could have been spent more effectively and efficiently elsewhere.

I also want to mention some other non-core pieces that qualify as cap space that Dubas burned:
-Not trading Freddy Andersen after Babcock was fired. Freddy fit Babcock's system, but was not a fit for Keefe's system and it became very clear early on after Keefe was promoted. Dubas' loyalty to Freddy because he was a popular teammate was a mistake and 5Mx2 burned.
-The Mrazek (3.8x3 for a 1B) and Murray (4.6x2 glass 1B) additions. In the absence of a truly elite 1G I had wanted the Leafs to go cheap in net for a while so they could spend more cap elsewhere since non-elite goalies mostly succeed based on system fit. Instead Dubas takes on 1Bs with significant cap hit and term in back to back offseasons, just praying they fit Keefe's system.
-The Nick Ritchie (2.5x2) signing. Players like him only succeed in the slow-skating Pacific division and Dubas should have done his homework on this one.
-Being too loyal to Kerfoot just because he was a key part of the bad Kadri trade. Also being too loyal to Holl in general. The combined 5.5M in cap between those 2 definitely could have been spent better elsewhere.
-Paying a 1st to move off of Marleau's 6.25M cap hit in order to re-sign Johnsson and Kapanen to a combined 6.6M, when Johnsson and Kapanen never should have been re-signed to those deals in the first place. Their RFA rights should have both been moved at the 2019 draft and Dubas should have just eaten the last year of Marleau's deal. There's a reason why Tulsky jumped at the opportunity to eat the last year of the Marleau deal even though Carolina is a playoff team. 1st round picks should not be given up that easily.

Tavares is a 59pt player in the playoffs for the leafs

Terrible performer. Hes a 3C who plays terrible as a 2C.

Rielly outperforms him routinely in the playoffs.

Trading Rielly at 5M to keep Tavares at 11M is terrible decision.

Trading Rielly at 5M for 2 years would only make sense if another top pairing/1D was avaliable which I dont recall being the case.

Ekholm/Lindolm came on the market in 2023 and 2022

Pietrangelo was avaialable in 2021 but he took 8.5M from vegas so likely around 9.5M-10M with toronto if he even decided to come back home

Trading rielly with no top pairing defensive prospects would be a bad choice