Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[ToneDog]

He’s going to need a UFA center to rebuild from Crosby/Malkin.


So did the NHLPA investigators.

You haven't heard. Since Dubas is no longer here, Matty is going to walk and he'll go to the GM voted best to fleece.

Yes

Do share.

 

[egd27]

There is a time and place for micromanagement. If you don’t trust a GM to do their job, replace them, or be the President/GM. I do agree that certain things, like large contracts should be reviewed. But trades, draft picks… general management of a team, should be run by the general manager.

Yes, media can create controversy. But in this case, the signs of issues were visibly there. This was even predictable and discussed here.

I must have missed these signs

Could you provide some of the factual examples of micromanagement?

So far the examples I have read about are the Tage Thompson one, and the Knies / MAF / Hagel one, both of which have been debunked.

 

[rocketman588]

You haven't heard. Since Dubas is no longer here, Matty is going to walk and he'll go to the GM voted best to fleece.


Do share.

They don't have 15 mil to hand him. I would take sid for Marner or nylander though

 

[ToneDog]

They don't have 15 mil to hand him. I would take sid for Marner or nylander though

Who pays a player coming off a 40 g/85 p season and a no show in a round #2 loss. $15m ?? Don't tell me, Kyle.

 

[WillNy29]

I'm a Kingston guy, UWO 02-06 ... alot of my buddies went to Laurier we had a solid schedule. I'd head there Thursday nights for DIRTY PHILS haha What a time. WLU was great to me.

I lived down king street from there lol it was a vibe

 

[IPS]

We had a thread discussing acquiring him before his move to Florida.

There were so many horrible takes in there about how he's an AHL player, bust, etc. (from exactly the people you think would say such things) that they literally locked and deleted the thread from existence, likely to save said posters from the humiliation of how wrong they were about the player every time it was bumped during Bennett's breakout season.

Dubas fanboys in a nutshell. Scoffing at players like Bennett yet worshiping players like Justin Holl calling him one of the best shutdown D in the league. Anything Dubas touched seemed to gain 1000% more value in their eyes than other players around the league. Apparantly Kerfoot was a much superior player.

Go read the Luke Schenn thread from this year if you want a good one - they were adamant he was going to be the Leafs #8 and only play when there's injuries. He literally stepped in right off the hop as a top-4 D and they never spoke about it again.

 

[Racer88]

The Toronto or bust comments remind me a lot of Sundin's situation.

Exactly

 

[MSteve]

I don't like this whole mess but I don't blame Dubas for going to Pittsburgh, he obviously meant when he said "here or nowhere" is if HE decided not to come back. He decided to come back and then got canned, so it's not the same situation. This doesn't mean he wasn't leveraging family for $$$ or whatever, just that quote doesn't have the teeth people think it does.

 

[Future]

The Leafs potentially hiring Treliving is growing on me. You can bet he’s been stewing over that Gaudreau situation for months and about what he’d do differently. I don’t think any other candidate would be better equipped to handle our current situation when you consider the upcoming contracts. He’s done well in many trades, has a winning track record in Calgary, and even a strong draft history (albeit not so much recently).

Every GM has made mistakes, you can look at Tampa’s GM which is widely considered to be one of if not the best in the league and he made the Jeannot trade.

I don’t know if Treliving would be my first choice, but he’s a great candidate and I’d be happy with him.

 

[rocketman588]

I don't like this whole mess but I don't blame Dubas for going to Pittsburgh, he obviously meant when he said "here or nowhere" is if HE decided not to come back. He decided to come back and then got canned, so it's not the same situation. This doesn't mean he wasn't leveraging family for $$$ or whatever, just that quote doesn't have the teeth people think it does.

He decided to come back- if they gave him double the salary offered and more money

 

[Future]

I don't like this whole mess but I don't blame Dubas for going to Pittsburgh, he obviously meant when he said "here or nowhere" is if HE decided not to come back. He decided to come back and then got canned, so it's not the same situation. This doesn't mean he wasn't leveraging family for $$$ or whatever, just that quote doesn't have the teeth people think it does.

This is just the BS cookie cutter excuse. He never clarified any of those statements by saying “if they’ll have me back”, so it was never contingent on that. He was referring to his mindset and how demanding it’s been on his family.

And it’s all crap. You don’t think he had access to his family for months? You don’t think this topic would’ve came up after receiving the initial extension offer in March? He just started to think about his, and by extension his family, future after the team lost in OT?

His agent and Shanny were talking an extension for weeks (at least) and then we all find out that Dubas may not even want to be GM of the Leafs, because that was the initial question asked by CJ. He couldn’t answer that question with an unequivocal yes, and the rest is history.

It was a failed power play, and reveals a lack of integrity.

 

[Peasy]

He decided to come back- if they gave him double the salary offered and more money

And to be above Shanny basically lol.

 

[Apex Predator]

Treliving I think is an average GM but I think there’s upside of he can show he’s learn from his past mistakes.

The same applies to Dubas.

The ball is in there courts whenever they both land to show they’ve learned from the past.

 

[rocketman588]

I forgot that he wasted a pick so he could double retain on the RoR trade to keep Kerfoot

Shanny was stopping his trades though

 

[egd27]

I don't like this whole mess but I don't blame Dubas for going to Pittsburgh, he obviously meant when he said "here or nowhere" is if HE decided not to come back. He decided to come back and then got canned, so it's not the same situation. This doesn't mean he wasn't leveraging family for $$$ or whatever, just that quote doesn't have the teeth people think it does.

Or he had the Pens job in his back pocket the whole time and he lacks sincerity. But the "Leafs fired me" is a wonderful rationalization.

 

[ToneDog]

I forgot that he wasted a pick so he could double retain on the RoR trade to keep Kerfoot

Shanny was stopping his trades though

If only he stopped the Murray trade.

 

[rocketman588]

If only he stopped the Murray trade.

Very excited to give up a first for that mistake this draft

What a legend Dubas is.

The more it goes by the more it seems like he was looking for excuses to run from the mistakes he made

 

[Twine Tickler]

Treliving I think is an average GM but I think there’s upside of he can show he’s learn from his past mistakes.

The same applies to Dubas.

The ball is in there courts whenever they both land to show they’ve learned from the past.

I think this is a fair assessment.

IMO, Dubas was clearly showing signs of learning from his mistakes with each passing year. Which made him such an attractive option for me. Humility is such a valuable asset in that role. Mistakes are going to happen. No one bats 1000. It's about adapting to whatever comes your way whether that was an unforced error or not.

Kyle has always had the ability to build a talented roster, but was handcuffed by situations that he sometimes put himself into. Those situations were becoming fewer and farther between one another as the years passed. He, like our core, was improving year over year.

Treliving to me has not shown that level of learning, but I think that has more to do with the ownership situation he was working under TBH. I genuinely think he is a good hockey mind as well, and I agree he too can learn from his previous mistakes. Out of all the old guard candidates I do think he has the most potential to be a good/great GM. But it is still a risk IMO. He seems like he has the right character to admit when he is wrong, and more importantly not hard headed enough to double down on his mistakes. I do think he was handcuffed in Calgary and we couldn't really see what he was fully capable of as a GM. That will not be the case in Toronto, so there is a bit more intrigue on my end with respect to him being the potential GM. I neither love or hate the outcome of him being GM.

That said, I tend to lean more towards more of a new school approach. Collaborative, logical, analytical, and innovative. Leave no stone unturned. Of course there is room for the old school way of thinking too. Especially in a market like Toronto, where heart and passion are absolutely necessary to win. At the end of the day, I want a GM who understands the privilege it is to work for our club, and employ only players and staff who recognize that same privilege.

Being a Maple Leaf is not a right, it is a privilege

 

[Maple Leaf]

I can't believe this guy was ready to sign him and then changed his mind what kind of clown show is going on here right now?

 

[Trapper]

The guy is a bit of a rat like Kadri but the hit he put on Slavin in game #4 was eye opening. After seeing that hit, tell me dmen do not hesitate going into the corner to retrieve the puck knowing what Bennett might do to them.

You always have to be aware or keep your head up when these guys are out there.
And there is a little fear for some when Tkachuk is around. Even if he isn't scoring a goal.

 

[andora]

The guy is a bit of a rat like Kadri but the hit he put on Slavin in game #4 was eye opening. After seeing that hit, tell me dmen do not hesitate going into the corner to retrieve the puck knowing what Bennett might do to them.

Oh the what ifs right

Imagine having both of them

 

[andora]

Ya that was a missed opportunity. But not just for us, that was a leaguewide gaff to sleep on his potential at that time. He was the ultimate buy-low candidate and it had nothing to do with personality issues or work ethic. It was all about misuse.

Very smart acquisition by the cats. Would have loved a guy who plays with that type of jam on our roster. Especially for that acquisition cost

It was the most likely of all explanations for his 'production' for anyone watching

Im in the west so i end up seeing a lot of calgary.. and bennett i always liked. When he was going he was a monster points be damned.. when he wasnt i never found him bad.. just there.

I have come to look at some players.. mostly ones in that limbo of not knowing what they are yet as investing.. what is the best worst case scenario.. if a worst case scenario is a player that plays boring minutes and can hold versus best case of being effective on the scoresheet and in the corners.. the player has a chance

 

[Twine Tickler]

It was the most likely of all explanations for his 'production' for anyone watching

Im in the west so i end up seeing a lot of calgary.. and bennett i always liked. When he was going he was a monster points be damned.. when he wasnt i never found him bad.. just there.

I have come to look at some players.. mostly ones in that limbo of not knowing what they are yet as investing.. what is the best worst case scenario.. if a worst case scenario is a player that plays boring minutes and can hold versus best case of being effective on the scoresheet and in the corners.. the player has a chance

Ya I am on the west coast too so I got to see a decent amount of him as well. I was always impressed with his compete level. I saw very little downside for that reason alone. I viewed him as a potential Cody Eakin type player at worst case.

Without combing through that entire thread, I think some people were kind of comparing him to a Jake Virtanen type. Wasted potential. But at the end of the day Sam never had any issues with his teamates or any off ice issues. He also didn't take entire stretches of games off like Jake did, nor did he fail to use his big frame to his advantage like Jake.

I am really shocked that the entire league didn't see value in the worst case version of Sam Bennett. Because he was playing at the worst case scenario in Calgary and was still effective, albeit to a lesser degree.

 

[andora]

Ya I am on the west coast too so I got to see a decent amount of him as well. I was always impressed with his compete level. I saw very little downside for that reason alone. I viewed him as a potential Cody Eakin type player at worst case.

Without combing through that entire thread, I think some people were kind of comparing him to a Jake Virtanen type. Wasted potential. But at the end of the day Sam never had any issues with his teamates or any off ice issues. He also didn't take entire stretches of games off like Jake did, nor did he fail to use his big frame to his advantage like Jake.

I am really shocked that the entire league didn't see value in the worst case version of Sam Bennett. Because he was playing at the worst case scenario in Calgary and was still effective, albeit to a lesser degree.

Amen

 

[leafers]

Kyle Dubas’ 5 worst moves during his time with the Toronto Maple Leafs - The Leafs Nation

By Joseph Zita

1 hour ago

Just like my previous article about Kyle Dubas’ five best moves during his time with the Toronto Maple Leafs, it wouldn’t be fair if I didn’t write a follow-up article on his five worst moves during his time with the Toronto Maple Leafs.

As I’ve said plenty of times, Kyle Dubas wasn’t a perfect general manager, nobody is, but he did a lot of good things for this team while he was here, and yes, he even did some questionable things for this team that has hurt them at times.

When I was writing my five best moves from Dubas, I felt like that list could look different for other people, but as I was writing this piece, I thought to myself that my list probably looks similar to a lot of others because of how big these moves were at the time.

1. Toronto Maple Leafs acquire Tyson Barrie, Alex Kerfoot and a 2020 3rd-round pick from the Colorado Avalanche in exchange for Nazem Kadri, Calle Rosen and a 2020 6th-round pick

2. Toronto Maple Leafs acquire Nick Foligno (CBJ) and Stefan Noesen (SJ) in a three-way trade in exchange for a 2021 1st-round pick, a 2021 4th-round pick and a 2022 4th-round pick

3. Toronto Maple Leafs protecting Justin Holl and Alex Kerfoot over Jared McCann in the 2021 Seattle Kraken expansion draft

4. Toronto Maple Leafs acquire Denis Malgin from the Florida Panthers in exchange for Mason Marchment

5. Toronto Maple Leafs sign free agent Petr Mrazek to a three-year, $11.4M contract ($3.8M AAV)

Honourable mention: Allowing Frederik Andersen to walk in free agency to sign a two-year, $9M contract ($4.5M AAV) with the Carolina Hurricanes

The Sandin trade was also a bad one.