Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[MCR74]

I don't think he goes to Pittsburgh. I think he'll end up in Ottawa. That will be friggin painful, if Dubas in Ottawa hands it to us. Literally a worst case scenario.

Not worried about him in Ottawa. If they bring him in, Keefe might be next to follow, not to mention all of Kyle's Greyhound buddies.

 

[LeafLoyalist]

Maple Leafs' process in Kyle Dubas decision looks more questionable by the day

Whether you think Dubas is a top-notch GM or not, it's becoming clear the Maple Leafs' decision to move on isn't based on solid logic.

ca.style.yahoo.com

The Toronto Maple Leafs' decision to part ways with Kyle Dubas is defensible in a vacuum, but as more information trickles out about their choice, the worse it looks.

Dubas has a resume that's far from unimpeachable, and there's a chance his replacement helps drive the kind of postseason success that's been elusive for this franchise. From a results standpoint, the decision may look fine for Toronto in the years to come.

Even so, it's starting to seem awfully unlikely the Maple Leafs' choice to move on was made for the right reasons.

On Friday, Brendan Shanahan laid out a timeline for the move in an unusual level of detail. If you take the Maple Leafs president at his word, his mind was changed after Dubas spoke to the media on Monday and expressed some consternation about the toll the GM job had taken on his family.

According to Shanahan, there was a "dramatic shift" in his thinking after the press conference.

While his decision to part ways with Dubas likely came down to multiple factors, there are three primary ways to interpret the situation.

1. Shanahan began to doubt Dubas had the stomach for the GM role after he expressed some doubts in public.

2. This was ultimately a contract dispute where Dubas asked for more money and/or control over decision making than the Maple Leafs were willing to give.

3. Dubas and Shanahan's working relationship deteriorated due to the latter using his power to impact transactions, as reported by The Athletic's James Mirtle.

If No. 1 was the driving force behind the decision then Shanahan comes off as harsh and lacking empathy for someone expressing themselves honestly. Being the GM of the Maple Leafs is a job that comes with plenty of pressure and public scrutiny, and Dubas feeling the weight of that in a difficult moment for the team is a relatable human response — not a sign of weakness.

If it's No. 2 that's reasonable to an extent, but the Maple Leafs print money and losing an executive they want over an amount that's inconsequential to the franchise seems silly. It would also be easy to present that situation as just an unfortunate reality of the business, instead of going as deep on the series of events as Shanahan did. Even if something related to the scope of the role was the sticking point rather than the financial component, that's something the team wouldn't have to elaborate on in public.

Perhaps No. 3 is the best explanation.

That means we're talking about a power struggle which doesn't paint Shanahan and the Maple Leafs in the best light. In this case, Shanahan felt that having a tight grip on decision-making was more important than collaborating with Dubas. It's possible that Shanahan is the superior hockey operations mind, but it's also worth noting that he came to the Maple Leafs with a background as a NHL executive and disciplinarian, not a prolific team builder.

If it’s;
1. I wouldn’t say it’s an emotional decision, I would say it’s a president questioning the ability of his GM moving this team forward as the pressure will be greater down the road, not easier. Expectations moving forward are higher than ever, should he commit to a GM if they are unsure if they can hack the responsibility, damn sure he should not.
2. When in a contract dispute, don’t matter how wealthy one side is, it’s an insult when you ask to be paid the highest paid ever in that role when you haven’t won a championship or even came close. This team is behind in its progress, how can you ask for the world! That shows that they feel they have performed better than anyone in that role and that is surely not the case when you haven’t won.
3. It looks as though their relationship has deteriorated for quite a while and affirmed in the last week when Shanahan was surprised by the press on Monday and the counteroffer on Thursday, via email. Have you seen them together during the games this year, where there is smoke there is fire

In all 3 cases it was time to move on, no turning back and Shanahan would have made the right decision in all 3 cases. Not one scenario does Dubas staying would be good

 

[BallardEra]

Yep. Pens will sign that Tulsky “Sideshow Bob” nerd.

 

[Mess]

Especially getting absolute top dollar and up front money. It was, is, a horrible deal.

If Dubas were still here and Matthews decided to walk away at age 26 it would ALL have been on Dubas for giving him that contract, and not securing your #1 asset long-term for the organization. That was a massive rookie GM mistake. With Matthews NMC about to kick in giving the player all the leverage in contract talks.

However now that Dubas is gone, his closest friends in the media are framing/spinning it that Shanny made a big mistake, because removing Dubas means Matthews won't sign so now all the loss of their franchise player blame falls on Shanny and the organization as accountability. Losing Matthews is all on them, KD is in the clear.

That is a ludicrous argument on its face, however to try and convince people that a star players #1 priority for signing is not money, nor lifestyle nor winning potential, nor family, nor teammates etc etc but its who is the teams GM that is throwing water bottles in the pressbox. That is suppose to be the make or break point is complete and utter nonsense.

Dubas gave out the richest, front-loaded, signing bonus driven, short-term contracts at rates unprecedented to players that never won a single thing, so I get it with new contracts due they wanted Dubas for the next round of talks to bend him over again.. Now with their meal ticket gone their agents are going to have work harder to convince a knowledgable GM to give them everything they want. But that boils down to $$ money and their best interest and not what the name of the GM is that is giving them their deal.

 

[SprDaVE]

Dreger said on Insider Trading the Leafs engaged with Treliving. He doesn't expect a ton of interviews in their process but to target individuals that fit.

 

[DarkKnight]

If Dubas were still here and Matthews decided to walk away at age 26 it would ALL have been on Dubas for giving him that contract, and not securing your #1 asset long-term for the organization. That was a massive rookie GM mistake. With Matthews NMC about to kick in giving the player all the leverage in contract talks.

However now that Dubas is gone, his closest friends in the media are framing/spinning it that Shanny made a big mistake, because removing Dubas means Matthews won't sign so now all the loss of their franchise player blame falls on Shanny and the organization as accountability. Losing Matthews is all on them, KD is in the clear.

That is a ludicrous argument on its face, however to try and convince people that a star players #1 priority for signing is not money, nor lifestyle nor winning potential, nor family etc etc but its who is the teams GM that is throwing water bottles in the pressbox. That is suppose to be the make or break point is complete and utter nonsense.

Dubas gave out the richest, front-loaded, signing bonus driven, short-term contracts at rates unprecedented to players that never won a single thing, so I get it with new contracts due they wanted Dubas for the next round of talks to bend him over again.. Now with their meal ticket gone their agents are going to have work harder to convince a knowledgable GM to give them everything they want. But that boils down to $$ money and their best interest and not what the name of the GM is that is giving them their deal.

It was funny today because Mirtle was rhyming off all the issues the Leafs have to deal with and when it was mentioned it was all Dubas’ doing he just mumbled something. Classic.

Dubas was great with the media, he treated them very well, a lot of them aren’t impartial actors here.

 

[LaPlante94]

Also, I want to know what changed in the media about Matthews. When Dubas was GM they would say Matthews will probably leave to Arizona or somewhere. Nobody cared because it seemed like stupid media trying to start shit again because they're bored. Now they're saying the same stuff but saying it's because Dubas was fired and everyone's outraged and blaming Shanahan already for us losing Matthews like they weren't saying he was already leaving even with Dubas as GM.

 

[egd27]

Is shanahan really not going to hire a GM?

Its been 4 days since we moved on from dubas

We should have an actual GM working for us by Friday at the min

Yea, he really should hurry up.
I mean screw doing a proper search and interviewing multiple candidates, just do it the way we got our future Hall of Fame coach.

 

[Mess]

If you really want to know fans feel then you have to go back to Kyle's Sault Ste. Marie roots.

'We roll from here': Sault's Kyle Dubas breaks his silence​

TORONTO — Kyle Dubas is taking the high road.

The former Maple Leafs general manager — fired last week to end a stunning five-day stretch in the wake of Toronto's second-round playoff exit — released a statement Tuesday on Twitter, but didn't get into specifics regarding his dismissal.

The Sault Ste. Marie native — who began his rebuttal with an "onward" caption — was abruptly handed his walking papers Friday to cap a tumultuous period that began with a bizarre end-of-season press conference in which the 37-year-old executive questioned if he wanted to continue in the role.

continued .....

In his hometown, Dubas' story is already the stuff of legend. A dressing room attendant for the Soo Greyhounds when he was a teenager, he eventually worked his way up to become the Hounds' general manager before being lured to the Leafs' front office in 2014 as an assistant GM. Four years later — at the tender age of 32 — Dubas was promoted to GM of the Leafs, taking over from Lou Lamoriello in May 2018 as part of a succession plan under the direction of team president Brendan Shanahan.

Of note, Dubas has altered his Twitter profile. It now reads "Husband & Dad" and lists his location as Sault Ste. Marie.

'We roll from here': Sault's Kyle Dubas breaks his silence

'The organization, as is their right to do, decided to go in a different direction,' Dubas said in statement released on Twitter; fired Leafs GM thanks players, coaches and fans

www.sootoday.com

 

[BRobMint]

Flames fan here. How would you guys feel if Treliving became the Leafs GM? I honestly think Brad’s the best experienced GM option available

Brad wasn’t a perfect GM by any means, but he did do good stuff for us. The Hamilton trade was by far his best trade. Our team’s drafting improved significantly during his tenure. And I know the Tkachuk trade isn’t looking great for us right now but considering Chucky wanted out he did a good job with the limited team options he had available to trade with. Nobody saw Huberdeau having the drop-off he had this season

Brad’s biggest weaknesses were his UFA signings, some fumbled asset management and his coach hires. But I honestly think the coaching hires has more to do with Flames ownership being cheap when it came to paying for a coach (which changed when they brought back Sutter)

Curious on what y’all think about Brad

 

[justashadowof]

Only two NHL GM vacancies at the moment, Toronto and Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is not an enviable undertaking. There is underpinning of competency to that roster that makes tanking very difficult unless certain players are convinced to leave. That team needs to be dismantled first like what has happened in Chicago.

Ottawa is laughable. They have a general manager (Dorion). Maybe they'd take him on as an assistant GM. President? That's ridiculous.

He needs to set his sights lower. Something like Director of Player Personnel. There are probably several organizations that would be interested in the player information Dubas undoubtedly possesses after leaving MLSE.

Otherwise get a TSN or Sportsnet gig and wait until the vacancies stop popping up 2024. These NHL GM jobs have short lives. Half of the current GMs started in the 2020's.

 

[Donnie740]

why fear a GM so incompetent? Good news if he gets hired by any eastern team imo, but no doubt he's considered a pariah by many teams after his power take over attempt.........

Exactly.

Which is why I’m hoping Dubas gets hired ASAP, preferably in the East.

He can’t draft worth a shit, his free agency signings are terrible and his trades are horrible.

Aside from being an easy opponent, it’s going to be hilarious to see Dubas fail again with another team.

 

[nuck]

Maple Leafs' process in Kyle Dubas decision looks more questionable by the day

Whether you think Dubas is a top-notch GM or not, it's becoming clear the Maple Leafs' decision to move on isn't based on solid logic.

ca.style.yahoo.com

The Toronto Maple Leafs' decision to part ways with Kyle Dubas is defensible in a vacuum, but as more information trickles out about their choice, the worse it looks.

Dubas has a resume that's far from unimpeachable, and there's a chance his replacement helps drive the kind of postseason success that's been elusive for this franchise. From a results standpoint, the decision may look fine for Toronto in the years to come.

Even so, it's starting to seem awfully unlikely the Maple Leafs' choice to move on was made for the right reasons.

On Friday, Brendan Shanahan laid out a timeline for the move in an unusual level of detail. If you take the Maple Leafs president at his word, his mind was changed after Dubas spoke to the media on Monday and expressed some consternation about the toll the GM job had taken on his family.

According to Shanahan, there was a "dramatic shift" in his thinking after the press conference.

While his decision to part ways with Dubas likely came down to multiple factors, there are three primary ways to interpret the situation.

1. Shanahan began to doubt Dubas had the stomach for the GM role after he expressed some doubts in public.

2. This was ultimately a contract dispute where Dubas asked for more money and/or control over decision making than the Maple Leafs were willing to give.

3. Dubas and Shanahan's working relationship deteriorated due to the latter using his power to impact transactions, as reported by The Athletic's James Mirtle.

If No. 1 was the driving force behind the decision then Shanahan comes off as harsh and lacking empathy for someone expressing themselves honestly. Being the GM of the Maple Leafs is a job that comes with plenty of pressure and public scrutiny, and Dubas feeling the weight of that in a difficult moment for the team is a relatable human response — not a sign of weakness.

If it's No. 2 that's reasonable to an extent, but the Maple Leafs print money and losing an executive they want over an amount that's inconsequential to the franchise seems silly. It would also be easy to present that situation as just an unfortunate reality of the business, instead of going as deep on the series of events as Shanahan did. Even if something related to the scope of the role was the sticking point rather than the financial component, that's something the team wouldn't have to elaborate on in public.

Perhaps No. 3 is the best explanation.

That means we're talking about a power struggle which doesn't paint Shanahan and the Maple Leafs in the best light. In this case, Shanahan felt that having a tight grip on decision-making was more important than collaborating with Dubas. It's possible that Shanahan is the superior hockey operations mind, but it's also worth noting that he came to the Maple Leafs with a background as a NHL executive and disciplinarian, not a prolific team builder.

I think we don't have enough information and it is unlikely we ever will. Shanny was very forthcoming but I doubt we can go back to that well for further information. He has moved on as has Kyle. If the organization thought Kyle had done a fantastic job he would still be here. Publicly patting him on the back because you intend to extend him is not the same as being completely satisfied with 2022-23 and the threshold for parting ways is different depending on how close they think the club is to realizing its potential.

Thats my thought, that they were willing to give him more time but when he wanted to change the relationship to reflect greater trust in him, that trust was simply not there. That he had simply not accomplished enough. If it is only money and he is your guy, you don't pull the deal, you just hold the line and if he takes it fine. I don't have an issue with what he said, or that he tried to make an adjustment in the terms because I don't know how the last offer and his previous contract compare.

They had a long and relatively successful relationship and after some reflection, Kyle chose not to accept the deal he was offered. After some reflection the club decided to go a different way. Reading nefarious intentions, failed power moves, or betrayal into the matter is just speculation. Both sides were entitled to do everything they did and the ship has sailed. The only thing that matters now is the next GM and what he does.

 

[Donnie740]

Real classy media availability by Dubas as well….

Likely in hiding at Granny Dubas place because his last press conference was such a catastrophic failure.

 

[BallardEra]

Justin Bourne nailed it:

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

www.youtube.com

 

[Mess]

Also, I want to know what changed in the media about Matthews. When Dubas was GM they would say Matthews will probably leave to Arizona or somewhere. Nobody cared because it seemed like stupid media trying to start shit again because they're bored. Now they're saying the same stuff but saying it's because Dubas was fired and everyone's outraged and blaming Shanahan already for us losing Matthews like they weren't saying he was already leaving even with Dubas as GM.

Please , no logical reasoning beyond this point, only irrational thinking allowed.

Here is a great video for you. Warning: Only logical people should view.

Leafs' Players Uneasy After Kyle Dubas Let Go | Kyper and Bourne​

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

The leafs not having a GM like 5 weeks before Matthews/Marner get that NMC is concerning

We need to bring in a GM asap or promote Pridham

Get this distraction out of the way and assess what direction this team is moving in next year

I'm not sure it is concerning. A GM is just a title. We hear "apparently Dubas wanted to do this and got shot down" and think meddling, when in reality it might actually just be teamwork.

Like, a GM is hired and they say "he has full autonomy" no they don't. You think Ken Holland has full autonomy to trade McDavid for a bag of peanuts?

There are so many people behind the scenes.

Dubas was good at analytics? Cool. Guess what, he probably taught someone else in the organization everything he knows, so who needs him anymore?

Shanny wants someone more experienced to be the "head guy", but even up until they make that hiring, I'm sure the people still there are very capable of getting things done.

 

[SprDaVE]

Flames fan here. How would you guys feel if Treliving became the Leafs GM? I honestly think Brad’s the best experienced GM option available

Brad wasn’t a perfect GM by any means, but he did do good stuff for us. The Hamilton trade was by far his best trade. Our team’s drafting improved significantly during his tenure. And I know the Tkachuk trade isn’t looking great for us right now but considering Chucky wanted out he did a good job with the limited team options he had available to trade with. Nobody saw Huberdeau having the drop-off he had this season

Brad’s biggest weaknesses were his UFA signings, some fumbled asset management and his coach hires. But I honestly think the coaching hires has more to do with Flames ownership being cheap when it came to paying for a coach (which changed when they brought back Sutter)

Curious on what y’all think about Brad

He seems fine, probably the best of what's available. There's a lot of good there from Treliving for sure.

I think most people that are against Treliving is because of his lack of playoff success, awful coaching hires and obviously the Tkachuk fiasco which really seemed to lack vision. For the most part he seems competent being able to put a team together that can compete.

I don't think Markstrom will be as bad as he was for you guys and there are a lot of good parts there.

 

[egd27]

I think Dubas is full of shit as he lets Mirtle, Johnston, and a few of his other media buddies to try to make him appear sympathetic. Oh poor Kyle, Brendan was so mean by outing his failed tactics of last week.

His "side" is being told over and over by his pals, he's not taking any high road.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

The narrative around Matthews contract is so ridiculous. 5 years has always been extremely common for top players coming off ELCs. Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Kane, Toews, etc. There's no reason to believe any other GM would have done differently.

There is good reason to believe another GM giving a 5yr deal would not have paid him that much as well as giving him a critical NMC right before his UFA year. I doubt very much that other GM's did this and got burnt...if they did..it would have been a warning to all the rest. We had to break new ground in that category by doing it.

 

[The Masters]

These guys got the best show

Pretty much said all this control stuff is nonsense. Kyle's had freedom to do what he wanted. Just go look at all the moves he made. And Kyper made a good point - if Brendan was controlling and told u to not do media day, chances are you wouldnt of done it. But guess what he said nah no thanks boss i want to send a message in the media

 

[Leaf Fans]

The leafs not having a GM like 5 weeks before Matthews/Marner get that NMC is concerning

We need to bring in a GM asap or promote Pridham

Get this distraction out of the way and assess what direction this team is moving in next year

Pridham is the acting GM things will go through him and likely Shanny until a candidate is hired. No, worries. Pridham was probably negotiating the contracts in the early stages anyway.

 

[BallardEra]

 

[leafsfan5]

CJ on Insider trading:

- NOTHING has changed with Auston Matthews regarding his contract extension. He would still like to re-sign and remain a Toronto Maple Leaf like he said on locker clean out day
- Him and his agent are sitting back and seeing how this plays out, would like to know who the GM is and their vision for the team

 

[andora]

They can and they might but it's not a recipe for success. These critical moves need to align with a long term strategy, otherwise it will be difficult to get to where you want to go. We won't find a GM with the exact same plan, and quite frankly we probably need help putting one together.

How much could the long term strategy have changed with dubas gone?

Sustain a contending team for say 5 years
Sustain supplementing bottom end of roster with home grown players
Succession plan for aging key players - brodie tavares etc...

The personnel may get a jolt but i am unsure of whatever overview is drastically going to change