Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[Mess]

he has 3807 followers and it's literally just a transcription of a podcast.

The real Chris Johnston the person apparently being quoted didn't post that breaking news on his own twitter account. That would be quite a scoop (an exclusive news story broken by a single journalist) for a reporter to break !!!.

Here is what CJ really claimed from his report posted from his account of things. He only mentions "multiple players without naming anyone contacted by Shanny, followed by his next quote referencing the potential clauses with AM and WN becoming due as critical timing.

If the core 4 are all staying then why worry about July 1st no trade clauses kicking in as these players are under contract for 2023-24 and can sign new deals any time in the upcoming season? Why does the new guy need to get a grip on AM and WN prior to July 1st 2023? Auston and Willy aren't UFAs until July 1st 2024.

Source: NorthStar

 

[Stephen]

Luke Fox brought up a super interesting point on the Fan Morning Show today that I don't think got enough play, but may have also complicated matters in the Dubas counter-offer to the Leafs at the last minute that may have contributed to the end of the relationship.

He said that Dubas' agent at Wasserman, Chris Armstrong, is actually not a hockey agent, but heads up the golf department at the agency. He knows Dubas through Brock. Anyway, in golf, agents negotiate with sponsors and will usually throw out astronomical asks, with counter offers throw back by sponsors. So maybe on some level they got a golf guy who didn't know the right industry protocols making an inappropriate ask at a sensitive time in the negotiation/powerplay and that sealed the deal.

 

[Stephen]

I researched the twitter account of Birky

View attachment 711639
Sounds like someone really in the loop.

Has 3807 followers and claims no responsibility for their tweets.

Can't find any reference on real Chris Johnston account mentioning it.

The Twitter thread mentions the Chris Johnston Show podcast. It's legit. 12:15.

 

[BallardEra]

Luke Fox brought up a super interesting point on the Fan Morning Show today that I don't think got enough play, but may have also complicated matters in the Dubas counter-offer to the Leafs at the last minute that may have contributed to the end of the relationship.

He said that Dubas' agent at Wasserman, Chris Armstrong, is actually not a hockey agent, but heads up the golf department at the agency. He knows Dubas through Brock. Anyway, in golf, agents negotiate with sponsors and will usually throw out astronomical asks, with counter offers throw back by sponsors. So maybe on some level they got a golf guy who didn't know the right industry protocols making an inappropriate ask at a sensitive time in the negotiation/powerplay and that sealed the deal.

I’ll go even further. I work for Bell and pulling that stunt when you are negotiating any deal (applying for a position or working on company deals) is a huge no no and career suicide.

I don’t think Bell and Rogers would have been happy with that move as well once Shanahan informed them about it.

 

[thewave]

Luke Fox brought up a super interesting point on the Fan Morning Show today that I don't think got enough play, but may have also complicated matters in the Dubas counter-offer to the Leafs at the last minute that may have contributed to the end of the relationship.

He said that Dubas' agent at Wasserman, Chris Armstrong, is actually not a hockey agent, but heads up the golf department at the agency. He knows Dubas through Brock. Anyway, in golf, agents negotiate with sponsors and will usually throw out astronomical asks, with counter offers throw back by sponsors. So maybe on some level they got a golf guy who didn't know the right industry protocols making an inappropriate ask at a sensitive time in the negotiation/powerplay and that sealed the deal.

If there wasn't other doubts they would have just returned a final offer, take it or leave it. That didn't happen so it leads me to believe they were more than happy to use this final demand as the final wedge and narrative to let him go.

 

[trellaine201]

The rest of the league aren't dumb. They know the circus situation the leafs are in, and that includes the big 4. They aren't going to the leafs a favour and overpay when they know the leafs are the ones down bad.

Going to be funny when all the big 4 stay and we do worse next year.

I guess I am not the only one. I don’t think there will be any major changes next year.. Not enough time and we don’t even have a GM and coach. Plus we don’t even know whose leaving from the front office.

 

[LeafEgo]

Seems weird that Freidman would say this.

If the board doesn't say much (I believe Tanenbaum would be hands-off, not sure about the others), this should be a non-issue.




I honestly just want to know more about this and have both sides to get a better idea, I feel like this is such a mess.

'Dubas wanted to "streamline" the process because he felt like things couldn't get done with the big decisions they had ahead this offseason.'

Feels like a suspiciously innocent way to try and frame the autonomy sticking point here.

How many 'big decision' transactions were occurring this summer where the process just simply had to be 'streamlined' to fit them all in over the course of an offseason? A thousand?

Just won't be possible to move a core piece and get a new coach this summer with that cumbersome two step approval process. No, no, I didn't mean remove Shanny, just streamline it - workflow systems, approval tracking, robotic process automation. Otherwise I ain't coming back.

 

[The Masters]

Luke Fox brought up a super interesting point on the Fan Morning Show today that I don't think got enough play, but may have also complicated matters in the Dubas counter-offer to the Leafs at the last minute that may have contributed to the end of the relationship.

He said that Dubas' agent at Wasserman, Chris Armstrong, is actually not a hockey agent, but heads up the golf department at the agency. He knows Dubas through Brock. Anyway, in golf, agents negotiate with sponsors and will usually throw out astronomical asks, with counter offers throw back by sponsors. So maybe on some level they got a golf guy who didn't know the right industry protocols making an inappropriate ask at a sensitive time in the negotiation/powerplay and that sealed the deal.

Then Dubas is an even bigger idiot then we thought. He's known Shanny for 9 years and Shanny promoted him 5 years ago. There was a relationship there, its not like he's coming into this blindly. Then gets a golf agent to negotiate for him. Fkin tool.

 

[LeafEgo]

Worst GM? That's a stretch. While certain things weren't great. Acquiring most of those players were good deals, of course, some weren't. To say he's one of the worst GMs ever is an exaggeration and a half.

I dont know where he ranks, but when an inexperienced GM takes over a franchise on a meteoric rise, seemingly destined for greatness, and plateaus it for five years as a result of trying to reinvent hockey with shockingly bad ideas, it's not a very good look.

 

[mydnyte]

it also depends on if his hands were tied the way JFJ's were ...JFJ went to the board and said he wanted to blow up the team, and he was told, NO, retool, and that set us back years, and made JFJ one of the worst ever GM's.
If Dubas actually wanted to trade a core player, and was denied that ability, then, asking for more power would have been an appropriate ask.
I'd love to know what trades/deals were vetoed, as has been mentioned (in an Athletic article)
Maybe Dubas would have deserved to be fired, or maybe he was right, we just dont know.

 

[Stephen]

Then Dubas is an even bigger idiot then we thought. He's known Shanny for 9 years and Shanny promoted him 5 years ago. There was a relationship there, its not like he's coming into this blindly. Then gets a golf agent to negotiate for him. Fkin tool.

Frankly, it's not the first negotiation that didn't end in Dubas' favour. Maybe applying pressure points or assessing negotiating strength isn't his forte?

 

[The Masters]

Frankly, it's not the first negotiation that didn't end in Dubas' favour. Maybe applying pressure points or assessing negotiating strength isn't his forte?

Clearly. Now we know how he absolutely botched those extensions for the kids.

 

[Jmo89]

Luke Fox brought up a super interesting point on the Fan Morning Show today that I don't think got enough play, but may have also complicated matters in the Dubas counter-offer to the Leafs at the last minute that may have contributed to the end of the relationship.

He said that Dubas' agent at Wasserman, Chris Armstrong, is actually not a hockey agent, but heads up the golf department at the agency. He knows Dubas through Brock. Anyway, in golf, agents negotiate with sponsors and will usually throw out astronomical asks, with counter offers throw back by sponsors. So maybe on some level they got a golf guy who didn't know the right industry protocols making an inappropriate ask at a sensitive time in the negotiation/powerplay and that sealed the deal.

Both Fox and Futa offered some great insight. It's interesting that an actual hockey guy has zero concern about Matthews leaving and pretty much laughed off the idea that he would leave because Dubas was fired.

IMO he also confirmed what many of us know, that Keefe demands zero accountability from the group (when he talked about Sutter being the one who kept the players accountable.)

 

[Stephen]

it also depends on if his hands were tied the way JFJ's were ...JFJ went to the board and said he wanted to blow up the team, and he was told, NO, retool, and that set us back years, and made JFJ one of the worst ever GM's.

I dunno. Looking back on the JFJ era, a clean ground up rebuild would have suited me fine and would have been the most straight forward direction to go in. But I also sympathize with the board somewhat because they can give broad direction, but it still comes down to the GM who has to make excellent decisions whatever direction you're headed.

A good example is Jim Nill in Dallas. That guy never rebuilt, yet was somehow able to build a competitive team out of nothing, trading scraps for a young Seguin during the Seguin-Benn era, and then hit on a number of star draft picks to build a serious contender.

 

[BallardEra]

Both Fox and Futa offered some great insight. It's interesting that an actual hockey guy has zero concern about Matthews leaving and pretty much laughed off the idea that he would leave because Dubas was fired.

IMO he also confirmed what many of us know, that Keefe demands zero accountability from the group (when he talked about Sutter being the one who kept the players accountable.)

I said likewise in another thread saying that I’ve never seen a player follow around a GM. It was obvious earlier in the season that the players controlled the room when Keefe had to walk back his comments. No wonder the players all said they loved him as a coach.

A team will almost always play similar to whatever identity or vibe that their coach gives off. This is exactly why nobody came to Knies defence on that Bennett play.

What do you think the reaction would have been if say someone like Brindamour was the coach?

 

[Superstar]

I dunno. Looking back on the JFJ era, a clean ground up rebuild would have suited me fine and would have been the most straight forward direction to go in. But I also sympathize with the board somewhat because they can give broad direction, but it still comes down to the GM who has to make excellent decisions whatever direction you're headed.

A good example is Jim Nill in Dallas. That guy never rebuilt, yet was somehow able to build a competitive team out of nothing, trading scraps for a young Seguin during the Seguin-Benn era, and then hit on a number of star draft picks to build a serious contender.

He also stuck to Seguin and Benn when they were crap though...I remember the Dallas owner roasting Seguin and Benn due to how badly they played despite making so much money.

 

[LeafEgo]

The rest of the league aren't dumb. They know the circus situation the leafs are in, and that includes the big 4. They aren't going to the leafs a favour and overpay when they know the leafs are the ones down bad.

Going to be funny when all the big 4 stay and we do worse next year.

That only really works if there is just one interested party. Once you have multiple parties interested in acquiring a franchise changing player, the Leafs best alternative is no longer to slink away and wallow in self pity. The best alternative is then to go with the other guy, or the one after that.

A bidding war ensues between multiple teams competing to acquire the unusually available player - the Leafs despair no longer in play - and market price is likely achieved.

Our streak of bad negotiating doesn't have to continue forever. We are in new territory now. Hopefully.

 

[Antropovsky]

He also stuck to Seguin and Benn when they were crap though...I remember the Dallas owner roasting Seguin and Benn due to how badly they played despite making so much money.

Does jim lites have ownership?

 

[Stephen]

He also stuck to Seguin and Benn when they were crap though...I remember the Dallas owner roasting Seguin and Benn due to how badly they played despite making so much money.

Well, those are like our Tavares contract, but imagine we had somehow drafted Oettinger, Robertson and Hintz in the meantime, then won a draft lottery and grabbed Heiskanen. That would have been nice.

 

[yubbers]

I see a new group uprising -> "Dubasimati"

Dube anons

 

[7even]

If by fired you mean they had a long intense contact negotiation that ended up working out for everyone involved then yes they tried to get him "fired"

The biggest impediment to trying to resign Masai seems to be that your golden boy handed babs a 25 million dollar pay out right before his negations occured

Who is my golden boy?

In MLSE's defense that was primarily Roger's side iirc regarding Ujiri. Bell(mostly) and Tannenbaum wanted him back.

You're right, thank you for correcting me.

 

[Jmo89]

I said likewise in another thread saying that I’ve never seen a player follow around a GM. It was obvious earlier in the season that the players controlled the room when Keefe had to walk back his comments. No wonder the players all said they loved him as a coach.

A team will almost always play similar to whatever identity or vibe that their coach gives off. This is exactly why nobody came to Knies defence on that Bennett play.

What do you think the reaction would have been if say someone like Brindamour was the coach?

I think the core group needs a shake up. I would much prefer at least one be traded. However I do have some morbid curiosity about how they would perform under a different coach.

It should have happened 2 seasons ago though after the Montreal series.

 

[capfit9]

I dunno. Looking back on the JFJ era, a clean ground up rebuild would have suited me fine and would have been the most straight forward direction to go in. But I also sympathize with the board somewhat because they can give broad direction, but it still comes down to the GM who has to make excellent decisions whatever direction you're headed.

A good example is Jim Nill in Dallas. That guy never rebuilt, yet was somehow able to build a competitive team out of nothing, trading scraps for a young Seguin during the Seguin-Benn era, and then hit on a number of star draft picks to build a serious contender.

have a look at the first 3 picks of the 2017 draft for Dallas

 

[1specter]

Doug armstrong is team canada gm and he actually took one of if not the worst skater in the nhl to the world championship on bigger ice. I dont have confidence i a gm who took lucic to europr

I'll take a successful 15 year career in St.Louis (and his many years in Dallas) as a barometer of how good he is over a meaningless tournament in 2023. Armstrong was also involved in the 2010 and 2014 Gold Medal Olympic teams, the '07 and '16 Gold Medal WHC teams, and the champion 2016 World Cup team if we wanna discuss international achievements.

 

[rocketman588]

Luke Fox brought up a super interesting point on the Fan Morning Show today that I don't think got enough play, but may have also complicated matters in the Dubas counter-offer to the Leafs at the last minute that may have contributed to the end of the relationship.

He said that Dubas' agent at Wasserman, Chris Armstrong, is actually not a hockey agent, but heads up the golf department at the agency. He knows Dubas through Brock. Anyway, in golf, agents negotiate with sponsors and will usually throw out astronomical asks, with counter offers throw back by sponsors. So maybe on some level they got a golf guy who didn't know the right industry protocols making an inappropriate ask at a sensitive time in the negotiation/powerplay and that sealed the deal.

Maybe but according to shanny they already had a deal mostly in place