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Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

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CrazyJoeDavola said:
Ghost Shanny for three days? Dubas was running planning meetings throughout the week that we know about, those of which Shanahan was present, which means the two were working and conversing a fair amount over the course of the last week. Y'all are falling for the MLSE spin machine.
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Yes.. it is possible to work with someone and ghost at the same time
 
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rocketman588 said:
If by fired you mean they had a long intense contact negotiation that ended up working out for everyone involved then yes they tried to get him "fired"

The biggest impediment to trying to resign Masai seems to be that your golden boy handed babs a 25 million dollar pay out right before his negations occured
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Does Babcock getting fired change how much he gets paid? Babcock was getting that money regardless, how does that impact Masai’s money? Is it having to pay Keefe an extra 2 mil that’s breaking them?

Who was it that came up with the idea of paying Babcock so much for so long anyway? They had a done deal with Guy Boucher before someone stepped in.
 
SeaOfBlue said:
If this is supposed to be a case against him using nepotism to acquire players or coaches, I am not really sure this is effective. Some of these names are major stretches in the first place. Including Lehner alone takes that entire argument down a notch. Then, for the most part, it seems like his intimate knowledge of these players has helped us far more than it has hurt us. In fact, the moves that are arguably the biggest stretches in terms of a Soo connection to Dubas (Simmonds, Thornton, etc.) were his worst moves. The guys he actually acquired and knew while he was there were all major successes, except for Ritchie.

He's drafted 1 Soo guy in the 5 years he has been in charge: Hollowell, because calling Sandin a Soo pick when he was an import selected 4 years after Dubas left the organization and when Thommie Bergman had probably already scouted him intimately the year before he went to the Soo is an absolute joke. And Dubas had plenty of opportunities to draft more without it looking suspicious.
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Nope. Just showing that he clearly put his stamp on the team in face of reports that he didn’t have autonomy.

If we had a similar list of adding Shanny’s buddies or former teammates, I would say the same about Shanny.
 
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This is the right time for the "Appreciation thread". Kyle Dubas's, not an active player - like Marner.

edit: Until such a thread is active, feel free to appreciate his departure here.
 
Stephen said:
At this point, Kyle is doing the right thing laying low and playing out the tit for tat with trusted media sources to push back on the narrative... Let it blow over, move onto another gig. I don't think it would set him up well in a corporate environment to start throwing bombs at MLSE and Shanahan since he would likely still be working as an NHL executive, and you don't want the reputational damage of someone who got everyone around him fired in your career advancement. That's the kind of thing that's gotten people blackballed in the game when you go up against your boss in public...
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I see your point but i’m sure he’ll be asked about what went on at MLSE & I’m sure they’ll want it corroborated within hockey circles.
 
phillipmike said:
Nope. Just showing that he clearly put his stamp on the team in face of reports that he didn’t have autonomy.

If we had a similar list of adding Shanny’s buddies or former teammates, I would say the same about Shanny.
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Considering the Leafs roster budget beyond the cap every year, the dead money tied up in Babcock, every first rounder between 2000-2023 traded out to make some initiative happen, 6x deadline acquisitions, the Soo alumni we've collected over the years, it's pretty obvious that even if he didn't have full autonomy he had sweeping freedoms to shape the organization, with some oversight.

Beyond that, full autonomy to the point where you don't have to answer to anyone is impossible. Even Larry Tanenbaum couldn't sign Dubas to an extension in 2022. He's the minority owner of MLSE. If you want to be fully in command, go buy an NHL team.
 
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Martin Skoula said:
Does Babcock getting fired change how much he gets paid? Babcock was getting that money regardless, how does that impact Masai’s money? Is it having to pay Keefe an extra 2 mil that’s breaking them?

Who was it that came up with the idea of paying Babcock so much for so long anyway? They had a done deal with Guy Boucher before someone stepped in.
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I think it's because they budgeted on him getting another job after he got fired and when he didn't it was a big thing to swallow.

Paying a dude dude that much to not coach is a big chunk for your organization but yeah paying Keefe 2 mill a year ( which they're about to have to eat thanks to Dubad giving him an extension) isn't great

In any case they're paying Masai long term 15 mil a season he agreed to it in an august deal I believe the summer before his current contract was up

The team isn't close to "firing him"

The Masai spin is hilarious considering Dubas is most likely going to be unemployed.

Masai's other options included doing shit for Obama
 
If you put aside what he did as a GM for a second.

He told his boss to talk to the hand (his agent) because he was waay too busy GMing to negotiate and sign a multi-million $ deal for himself during the regular season.

Kyle went to the press, hinted he might have a better offer (this part is killing me), used his family as a shield, and then told his agent to ask for more $$$.


The balls on this one. He could teach balls at Harvard (Matthews and Marner should enroll for a reunion).
 
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Stephen said:
Considering the Leafs roster budget beyond the cap every year, the dead money tied up in Babcock, every first rounder between 2000-2023 traded out to make some initiative happen, 6x deadline acquisitions, the Soo alumni we've collected over the years, it's pretty obvious that even if he didn't have full autonomy he had sweeping freedoms to shape the organization, with some oversight.

Beyond that, full autonomy to the point where you don't have to answer to anyone is impossible. Even Larry Tanenbaum couldn't sign Dubas to an extension in 2022. He's the minority owner of MLSE. If you want to be fully in command, go buy an NHL team.
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Exactly.

Dubas is drunk on power he doesn’t even possess.
 
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Arzak said:
If you put aside what he did as a GM for a second.

He told his boss to talk to the hand (his agent) because he was waay too busy GMing to negotiate and sign a multi-million $ deal for himself during the regular season.

Kyle went to the press, hinted he might have a better offer (this part is killing me), used his family as a shield, and then told his agent to ask for more $$$.


The balls on this one. He could teach balls at Harvard (Matthews and Marner should enroll for a reunion).
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He asked Shanahan to deal with his agent because he didn't want it to be a distraction. He didn't hint that he might have a better offer( what was the hint?)
He said that things were difficult for his family which Shanahan acknowledged further saying it is hard on everyone's family.
He did make a counter offer perhaps for more dollars or more autonomy or a different reporting mechenisim perhap all, perhaps even more. The neither the offer nor counteroffer are public.
 
seventieslord said:
ROR is a wildcard because he might like it here and think he has a chance to win, and he's made enough money. 4.5M might be possible. Even less, who knows.

But Sammy at 3M seems like a real stretch. I know he's an RFA but still... And Bertuzzi looked great in the playoffs and must be seen as somewhat of a unicorn as a UFA. Can you really rule out a bidding war that takes him up to 7.5?
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I think Samsonov at $3M seems like a good number according to the sources I looked at. His qualifying offer will be $1.8M. It depends on term. If we want lots of years, it goes up. I am not sure we want to commit too many years after one good year.

Bertuzzi is the wildcard. He hasn't had a good full season in a while. Someone may over pay. You're right. Not many contenders have cap space though.

ROR is a Toronto guy. Hard to say what he will take if we want him back.
 
shaner89 said:
To Toronto: Jake Muzzin

To L.A.: 2019 first-round pick, Carl Grundstrom and Sean Durzi


To Toronto: Jack Campbell, Kyle Clifford*

To L.A.: Trevor Moore, 2020 third-round pick, 2021 conditional third-round pick


To Toronto: Nick Foligno

To Columbus: 2021 first-round pick, 2022 fourth-round pick
To Toronto: Mark Giordano*, Colin Blackwell

To Seattle: 2022 second-round pick (No. 58 overall; Niklas Kokko), 2023 second-round pick, 2024 third-round pick

To Toronto: Ryan O’Reilly and Noel Accari
To St Louis: Toronto 1st rd pick in 23, Toronto 2nd rd pick in 24 and Toronto 3rd rd pick in 23.

O’Reilly was fine but 3 top picks for a month?

Gave away another 1st for Chicago to take Mrazek

Acquiring Matt Murray as your starting goalie.

3rd for Rittich who played 3 games

1st for McCabe

Overpaid Matthews and Marner

Signed Tavares to one of the most putrid contracts

Kadri for Kerfoot and Barrie


Worst GM ever? Likely in the conversation
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Worst GM? That's a stretch. While certain things weren't great. Acquiring most of those players were good deals, of course, some weren't. To say he's one of the worst GMs ever is an exaggeration and a half.
 
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Menzinger said:
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I researched the twitter account of Birky

1684803603466.png

Sounds like someone really in the loop. :wg:

Has 3807 followers and claims no responsibility for their tweets.

Can't find any reference on real Chris Johnston account mentioning it.
 
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1specter said:
The fact that Doug Armstrong's name keeps popping up seemingly out of nowhere when he's under contract until 2026 is very interesting. Almost wonder if he's the one sending out feelers, it's really odd otherwise to be discussing a guy who's job seems to be fairly secure for multiple years and nobody was speculating about before the Leafs role opened up.

Or maybe it's Shanahan speaking it into existence lol
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Doug armstrong is team canada gm and he actually took one of if not the worst skater in the nhl to the world championship on bigger ice. I dont have confidence i a gm who took lucic to europr
 
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