Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[PromisedLand]

My reaction on Monday to Dubas' personal comments was that it was too much information and that it would be difficult for him to continue the work as the head of the Leafs in his front office role. Didn't think it would necessarily get him in trouble with the board and Shanahan but practically wouldn't have made his life easier.

Generally I'm having a hard time thinking of corporate leaders in any field really making a public case about how taxing and awful their job is, and then have to represent that organization to the public as its buttoned up, sleek corporate voice. I don't think a Tim Cook is going to talk about how awful working at Apple is and then sell you on an iPhone 20.0.

Commitment aside, it just made the Toronto market look so difficult for someone to work or play in. How is he going to recruit Joe Free Agent down the road and tell them what a wonderful market it is? Aren't questions going to be asked about pressures on the family, how crazy the media is, are the fans jerks in public?

He shot his shot. It was no good.

An absolute f***ing entitlement culture bred from all the way at the top.

Dubas wanted to have the cake and eat it too.

Doesn't work that way; dubas wanted all the money but didn't want to deal with accountability/criticism "family stress" seriously WTF. If its too much then just quit go do another job.

Dubas undid all the good will that Shanny/Lou had done after scorched earth i.e. "we'll make it safe for everyone to come here and play here" by publicly saying how "hard it is for Toronto"

Dubas can get bent for all I care. absolute Fraud

 

[notbias]

I'm describing what Dubas said to the public and his actions, and the lobby for a streamlined process in reporting as the media has stated. Sorry if it's not flattering to Kyle Dubas. He attempted a palace coup and got rooted out.

Your motives are clear.

Friedman said it was not to displace anyone, and you move to a coup.

Good imagination.

 

[Racer88]

I agree, I am not saying the board/Shanny have overruled Dubas on many issues, or that they are involved in every move, just that we can't dismiss them being overly involved either.

I'd like to also know what was happening between them cause right now, I don't know how much of this team was Shanny, the board, or Dubas.

Great point. For the record I’m not a big fan of Shanny and something had to be done to change the outcome of this team. Hopefully removing Dubas was the right move but we won’t know for a least a couple of seasons. Going to be interesting that’s for sure

 

[notbias]

Check your facts, Boyo.

3/18.75 + 7/31.5 are nowhere close to as devastating as that 7/77 catastrophe.

The Dubas Fan Boi Club is just as laughably inept as their idol.

Boyo? Dubas Fan Boi Club? Did you take a photo of your work uniform and put it on Dubas?

Might want to learn what a cap hit is before you pretend like you know what you're talking about

 

[Superstar]

I’m guessing every GM that is handing out contracts worth 30-40-60 million and up needs ownership approval


Sorry but if it is being portrayed as fact we do need proof

Sounds like Dubas was readying himself for another massive overpayment for Matthews without having to go to the board for it, lol

 

[Stephen]

Why do people assume the family stuff is business related and not the losers on Twitter doxing and harassing people? One girl who used to work for them came out yesterday about the shit loser Leaf fans do including finding her address and harassing her.

No one knows what MLSE employees and their families face from aggressive people online on a daily basis.

No one knows what the job and performance pressures and time demands are like on the GM, taking him away from his family.

Neither of these factors would have changed one bit between Monday and Thursday so why did the thinking change, along with a big contract and job profile ask?

 

[saltming]

Penguins receive permission to talk to former Maple Leafs GM Kyle Dubas

The Maple Leafs announced Kyle Dubas was no longer GM last Friday in the aftermath of the team's second-round exit in the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Dubas' contract is set to expire late next month.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[myleafs]

I dunno. Notice how almost everyone at MLSE that wasn’t a Kyle subordinate or hire seemed to be problematic at one point or another? Or the fact that Kyle was willing to come back despite everyone’s dysfunction? Dubas isn’t an innocent here. He’s in it to win it and that’s not exclusive to the product on the ice.

The more I see and read and start putting the puzzle together the more I think Dubas was much more calculating and dishonest about his motives. Ive seen it before in the workplace but I didnt want to believe our alterboy gm had it in him to be so political about his ambitions but I think he did. Another chunk of innocence lost.

 

[Donnie740]

Boyo? Dubas Fan Boi Club? Did you take a photo of your work uniform and put it on Dubas?

Might want to learn what a cap hit is before you pretend like you know what you're talking about

Facts are facts no matter how hard you try to spin reality - - the Tavares boat anchor is infinitely worse than the Marleau and Zaitsev deals COMBINED.

Once again, 3/18.75 + 7/31.5 are nowhere close to as devastating as 7/77 is.

 

[sxvnert]

The entire meddlesome ownership narrative being pushed now is complete bullshit. After the family bit blew up in his face now they need to spin a new narrative to save their cult leader.

What exactly was Dubas not allowed to do?

- Trade every pick possible - Check
- Pay players whatever they waned - Check
- Bring his own coach/friend in - Check
- Fire/Replace Babcock regardless of the millions (24-25m) it cost ownership - Check
- Burying millions in LTIR salary - Check
- Pay top dollar for the marlies to win a championship - Check
- Hire anyone who was remotely interested in hockey - Check
- Build the largest sports science department in the league - Check

 

[PromisedLand]

I disagree with that. Obviously I want to re-sign Matthews and keep building around him so I'm making a case to justify it. But we have actually already allocated $11.6 million in cap right now and whatever raise he gets to is a smaller percentage upgrade than you think. So the cost of Matthews is largely baked in. The delta between what we pay him now and $13 million is less than Connor Timmins. So you don't really throw it out the window out of frustration.

Also, the cap structure will change after Year 1 of the new contract. John Tavares' contract expires so the Big 4, which unlocks massive spending potential.

I really depends how much pending potential we may have.

Rumour has been that matthews would be seeking somewhere between14 to 15 AAV on his next deal.

Under the hypothetical assuming all 3 guys are re-signed:

1) Matthews: +3 to 4 AAV
2) Marner: +2 to 3 AAV (you may not think this is possible, but i can almost guarantee he will point to matthews' contract)
3) Nylnader: +2 to 3 AAV

We are looking at a range of 7 AAV to 10 AAV we get from Tavares' contract already taken. Then we factor in raises to Lily, other UFA signings, etc....

I really doubt there would be much spending potential.

If we can get a competent GM and be prudent in cap allocation with a foresight we may be able to do better. It is one of the reasons I am glad dubas isn't the gm anymore

 

[Stephen]

Your motives are clear.

Friedman said it was not to displace anyone, and you move to a coup.

Good imagination.

So who in the management structure does Dubas actually have a problem with?

-Shanahan, the middle man between Dubas and the Board? If this is the case, and let's say the demands are met. Dubas can now converse directly with the board. Why would Shanahan still have a job if he can't steer Dubas in hockey related matters and doesn't need to be the conduit between the board and Dubas?

-Or does Dubas have a problem with the Board itself, who is the "meddlesome" ownership group?

In any case, the answer seems to have been more power and money for Kyle, everyone else was the problem, but no pre-existing problems seemed to have been solved by consolidating control for Kyle.

 

[PromisedLand]

$13 million per is fine with me, even for 5 years this time around since he'll be in his early 30's when it expires...I'm not fine with some other figures being thrown around like $14 to $15 million per.

I can't source the article but there were stories that Matthews was willing to sign 8 years, its jsut the cap hit he and his agent were seeking would have put him at about 13 AAV so dubas bent over and signed his 5 year deal for 11.6

 

[seventieslord]

Here's a few thoughts.

Whether you want Dubas gone or not, and whether you like Shanny or not I don't see how anyone can say this was well handled. It was poorly handled.

We are now a team with a GM and the organization wanted to retain the outgoing GM and could not. This has all been made public and we look disorganized.

We obviously don't have a plan B because we thought plan A was going to work. So, now we have a short window to make a decision on our coach and prepare for an important off-season. I feel we need to move swiftly now and that is not good when you don't have a plan?

First of all, on Dubas. It's easy to say he didn't win a cup so he failed. It is also very true that about 28 current GMs haven't won a cup and most of them have not come close to the job Dubas has done with the Leafs. They have been one of the best teams in the NHL the past five years, they have the longest playoff qualifying streak in the league, they have a very good cap situation, their core is still young and in their primes, they have a first round pick, and lots of prospect depth including two or three guys knocking on the door next year. These are all facts.

But, here we are. What would I do?

I would ask Shanny to take on a more involved and active role in hockey operations and I would support him with Pridham and Wickenheiser and others. This team needs a culture shock. This is Shanny's team. It is his job to do. We can't hire another GM and not succeed, so he might as well roll up his sleeves and do the dirty work. He will have a great supporting (management) cast and he has been left in a good place by Dubas.

I would change the coach. We have to. I don't know where we go. Even if we promote Carbery and hire some experience around him I think that is at worse a lateral move and the change itself could bring the desired impact.

On ice?

- Trade Murray and our first for the highest pick we can get (Mrazek move)

- Trade Nylander. I am not hating on Willy, I just think he is the most movable of the core four. Think Parayko.

- Sign a F to fill some of Nylander gap. Think Bertuzzi. ($5.5M x 4), maybe Barbashev if we can't get Bert.

- Resign O'Rielly ($4M x 4), Schenn, Kampf and Acciari.

- Re-sign Matthews ($13M x 8)

This is about the most change I think we can make without taking steps backwards. Our window is now...not steps back. We have to change the wheels on this thing while it is going one hundred miles an hour.

Shanny as the visible hockey leader is the most significant of the moves outlined above.

Have you checked whether the team can even stay under the cap making those moves? You're talking about re-signing players we acquired at the deadline when they only cost us about a quarter of their salary. That's the only reason the leafs were able to go into the playoffs with all these guys. It's a totally different thing to expect them to be able to have them all on the roster at the start of the season and be cap compliant.

 

[myleafs]

I believe Hunter would have wasted the draft picks as shown from his time drafting, and Lou would have ruined the team, like shown from his most recent stint as GM and his excellent Marleau/Zaitsev contracts.

Everyone else would have screwed it up way more than boy wonder did....okeedokee. What a crock. Dont get the hate for someone else who actually had more success than the leafs with less to work with. Weird take.

 

[Gabriel426]

He left bc he doesn’t want to come back as GM apparently due to not enough power.

 

[PromisedLand]

I wouldn't say Dubas was born a bitch. Don't know his family background or lifestyle

Unfollowing is petty but this whole situation is petty from both dubas and shanny

If these two were happy and ready to f*** why did they wait till Monday presser then Thursday last week?

If dubas wants to be the GM for toronto sign that 4M extension that was discussed throughout the year at the deadline at the best or ASAP once game 5 is done so your back to figuring out the next steps for the leafs

If shanny was happy with him running the team moving forward then give dubas an ultimatum, your signing the extension game 1 of round 2 (that seems the bare minimum needed to get extended) or your done in Toronto even if you win the cup.

Delayed communication, dubas wanting more power+money and negotiating in bad faith, shanny having his feelings hurt led to this.

Hockey gods finally answered my prayers and "true" leafs fans' prayers is the only logical explanation

 

[IPS]

An absolute f***ing entitlement culture bred from all the way at the top.

Dubas wanted to have the cake and eat it too.

Doesn't work that way; dubas wanted all the money but didn't want to deal with accountability/criticism "family stress" seriously WTF. If its too much then just quit go do another job.

Dubas undid all the good will that Shanny/Lou had done after scorched earth i.e. "we'll make it safe for everyone to come here and play here" by publicly saying how "hard it is for Toronto"

Dubas can get bent for all I care. absolute Fraud

And how about Dubas' contract coincidentially ending the same time Matthews and Marner's NMC clauses are kicking in?

I am absolutely shocked why this isn't more of a topic for discussion. Dubas never held them accountable, defended them in the media, and bent over backwards to defend these kids from any criticism at all. It's so obvious why he needed them around, he manipulated the leverage of being the guy the core loves. His entire plan of using this leverage blew up in his face. Him and Matthews working for that Wasserman outfit is some bad smoke. That agency was trying to game the Leafs to get both Matthews and Dubas paid A LOT of money.

 

[myleafs]

The more gets out about this, the worse I feel.

Dubas essentially lost a power struggle with Shanny. Got let go for it.

We’re looking to hire an experienced and great GM? Automatically anyone with any clout will not come to Toronto to be subordinate to Shanny and the board. Why would they if have much more autonomy elsewhere?

Some people still will, but I think it severely damages our potential pool of candidates. Also, we look seriously dysfunctional. It is concerning.

That being said, I reserve judgement till I see who we hire. Could end up being a good thing, but that will be hard to do.

Couldnt disagree with you more. Coveted job that many many with clout would love to have. And an experienced and great gm would not do what Dubas did. He made his bed and he has to live with it. Leafs will be fine.

 

[Stephen]

The entire meddlesome ownership narrative being pushed now is complete bullshit. After the family bit blew up in his face now they need to spin a new narrative to save their cult leader.

What exactly was Dubas not allowed to do?

- Trade every pick possible - Check
- Pay players whatever they waned - Check
- Bring his own coach/friend in - Check
- Fire/Replace Babcock regardless of the millions (24-25m) it cost ownership - Check
- Burying millions in LTIR salary - Check
- Pay top dollar for the marlies to win a championship - Check
- Hire anyone who was remotely interested in hockey - Check
- Build the largest sports science department in the league - Check

Ever notice how EVERYONE Kyle Dubas has worked with at MLSE that wasn't a subordinate or his own hire, including MLSE itself is "The Problem?"

-The Board of Directors.
-The President Brendan Shanahan.
-The Hall of Fame GM and mentor, Lou Lamoriello.
-The other AGM, Mark Hunter.
-The pre-existitng Head Coach, Mike Babcock.

Go ahead and off everyone from the power structure if you won a Stanley Cup for us, but save the powerplays for the ice in the meantime.

 

[rumman]

excellent news, now we having a landing spot for our garbage players, and a first rounder for releasing Keefe from his coaching duties

 

[egd27]

Do we have links that prove MLSE was doing that or did I just miss them.
thx in advance

The lack of success couldn't be Kyle's fault, must have meddling from Shanny and the Board. Or possibly Qanon

 

[sxvnert]

I can't source the article but there were stories that Matthews was willing to sign 8 years, its jsut the cap hit he and his agent were seeking would have put him at about 13 AAV so dubas bent over and signed his 5 year deal for 11.6

The insanity of not forcing him to sign 11.6-12 for 8 years in unacceptable. All it takes is one article from his legion of minions that Matthews was holding out for 13M and Matty would have caved within minutes or stayed home for months like Willy. Dubas would have won that Willy battle had he stuck to his guns and referenced the cap hell these contracts would have caused.

 

[PromisedLand]

And how about Dubas' contract coincidentially ending the same time Matthews and Marner's NMC clauses are kicking in?

I am absolutely shocked why this isn't more of a topic for discussion. Dubas never held them accountable, defended them in the media, and bent over backwards to defend these kids from any criticism at all. It's so obvious why he needed them around, he manipulated the leverage of being the guy the core loves. His entire plan of using this leverage blew up in his face. Him and Matthews working for that Wasserman outfit is some bad smoke. That agency was trying to game the Leafs to get both Matthews and Dubas paid A LOT of money.

Agreed!

I brought it up before. The proof is in the pudding: -> Marner's NMC kicking in at the same time as Matthews and Nylander's (NTC) "a year earlier btw"; when Dubas' contract is up for negotiation.

 

[sxvnert]

excellent news, now we having a landing spot for our garbage players, and a first rounder for releasing Keefe from his coaching duties

Kyle will give Sullivan a year before running him out of town. Then Keefe can sign on.