Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[KPower]

I liked Dubas but I like seeing all the beta leaf fans in shambles even more. Lol

 

[Torontonian]

The fact that the MLSE Board was heavily involved makes this situation even worse. Ownership meddling when it comes to this franchise is never good.

The team is done no matter who the GM is when MLSE is making and having a say on hockey ops and hockey decisions. This is what you hire presidents for.

Really could be dark ages again if MLSE decides to keeps getting in the way of hockey decisions .

 

[Racer88]

Do we have links that prove MLSE was doing that or did I just miss them.
thx in advance

 

[nuck]

I think people are likely really underestimating how chaotic things are going to be in the front office for a few weeks. Even after Shanny eventually finds the next GM,.they'll need time to settle things and sort their own people out ect.

Hopefully they have time to figure out the Matthews contract in the meantime

In fairness to Kyle I expect he had been preparing for Matthews and Willy for a while. I can't picture them not having a bunch of scenarios and a max spend already worked out. The wild card being I think all three NT guys were possibly going to be kept before and I am fairly certain that is now not the case. They may actually have more flexibility if the intention is one of the core is outbound. The time crunch is more on the trade possibilities as I don't know the rest of the league was preparing for an off season where AM might be available. You want that possibility to at least be on other club's minds although you also don't want to bang the drum too hard too early so Matthews feels he is being shopped while still negotiating.

Bringing in a respectable GM early I think would be a plus as it give AM or Willie more of an idea what the environment might be.

 

[notbias]

Do we have links that prove MLSE was doing that or did I just miss them.
thx in advance

Sure sounds like they have a hand in things if it has to go to the board, and then come back down.

 

[thewave]

Yup. The Dubasites have to wrap their heads around this: Dubas already screwed us on the Matthews, Marner, and to a lesser extent Nylander NMCs/NTCs.

The only question now is how much that damage can be mitigated.

There isn't going to be much to salvage. You can see it now the organization trusted a very inexperienced young man to do the job of someone like Lou. Lets face Lou the Lawyer with decades experience or Kyley McSmiley. It was totally ridiculous to go with Kyle off the hop. Even if after he finished his boneheaded contracts he became decent. There is the issue of keeping a coach that anyone with hockey experience was saying, he is getting out coached.

It was all in front of the board and shannys face. They could have even read what people and pros were saying on twitter. Nope they were locked in their echo chamber losing the plot or being ignorant

 

[Apex Predator]

Do we have links that prove MLSE was doing that or did I just miss them.
thx in advance

We don’t have proof just Dubas’ leaks to the media.

 

[notbias]

There isn't going to be much to salvage. You can see it now the organization trusted a very inexperienced young man to do the job of someone like Lou. Lets face Lou the Lawyer with decades experience or Kyley McSmiley. It was totally ridiculous to go with Kyle off the hop. Even if after he finished his boneheaded contracts he became decent. There is the issue of keeping a coach that anyone with hockey experience was saying, he is getting out coached.

It was all in front of the board and shannys face. They could have even read what people and pros were saying on twitter. Nope they were locked in their echo chamber losing the plot or being ignorant

Lou's new nickname is Lou "paid too much and for too long" Lamoriello.

Why do people still pretend this guy is good at anything?

 

[Racer88]

Sure sounds like they have a hand in things if it has to go to the board, and then come back down.

I’m guessing every GM that is handing out contracts worth 30-40-60 million and up needs ownership approval

We don’t have proof just Dubas’ leaks to the media.

Sorry but if it is being portrayed as fact we do need proof

 

[sxvnert]

Sure sounds like they have a hand in things if it has to go to the board, and then come back down.

Like every other org in pro sports. Its a fantasy to beleive the GM operates in complete autonomy handing out contracts willy nilly. The fact that Dubas wanted to streamline decisions (a nicer way of saying autonomy) is another reason Shanny was justified in tossing him out the door.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Exactly, he is a 4th line-type prospect, is what I was saying. Acciari/Tonanito/Joshua type prospect.

He isn't someone you consider a hit unless he steps into the NHL and makes a larger impact than expected.


A 7th rounder who may become a 4th line grinder is inconsequential and isn't a prospect worth noting as signs of strong drafting under Dubas

Hirvonen/Niemela have top 4D and top 9 forward potential, those are players if the Leafs can get onto the team will be valuable contributors, and point to guys who either help us win or are valuable enough to trade for a nice addition. Those are picks looking to be good and worth praising, not Ryan Tverberg

If we're praising this pick, then Dakota Joshua was a gem from Burke/Nonis

Anytime you churn out an NHL player in the 7th round, that is a success. No matter what line they play on. I gladly take a tenacious forward that hits, forechecks hard and takes the puck to the net from a 7th round pick. That's the kinds of players we've all been yearning for in our bottom 6 for playoff hockey.

No one here is expecting Tverberg to be a Zetterberg level player from the late round. Expecting any 7th rounder to be is unrealistic. If he turns out to be a regular bottom 6 forward like an Acciari or Cizikas, you don't consider that to be a success as a late round, homegrown talent and valuable contributor?

As for his production in College. Did you look at his roster? Even their team had a solid year, they only have 3 other players who have been drafted, 1 is a 3rd rounder and 2 late rounders who are all well behind Tverberg in production. 2 guys on his team out produced him. One is an undrafted 22 yr old and the other is an 18 yr old who was just under a ppg. Doesn't exactly have the same lineup as guys like Knies and Hyman had. I'm not saying Tverberg is the same level of prospect as Knies. Just saying that I would expect Tverberg would be around ppg or more if he was playing with higher level players too.

Just remember that Tverberg was the last cut for Team Canada as a 7th rounder in his D+1. That says a lot about a player. Team Canada is usually full of 1st and 2nd rounders.

 

[notbias]

I’m guessing every GM that is handing out contracts worth 30-40-60 million and up needs ownership approval

I am sure it is more than just contracts since they wanted to streamline the process.

Contracts seem straightforward for approval compared to trades.

Interpret it how you want, but they are involved to some extent at least.

 

[sxvnert]

We don’t have proof just Dubas’ leaks to the media.

Agreed. Anything other than Dubas himself making the statement, is rumor/spin imo. I'm not interested in hearing his lackeys put the best possible spin on every piece of info they come across while potentially ignoring the rest which paint a negative light. Notice how none of them have mentioned the counter offer.

 

[thewave]

Lou's new nickname is Lou "paid too much and for too long" Lamoriello.

Why do people still pretend this guy is good at anything?

Didnt his team go deep a couple times in the past 4 years. Deeper than we have in 20 lol

 

[notbias]

Didnt his team go deep a couple times in the past 4 years. Deeper than we have in 20 lol

He inherited that team, he's left his mark on them now, go check their recent successes.

 

[thewave]

He inherited that team, he's left his mark on them now, go check their recent successes.

What did Dubas do with all the inherited talent. The contracts were about to come up and the weasel probably made some family bs up and returned a ridiculous offer to not be bent over backwards and get slaughtered in the media for a second round of overpays or trading the core away. He got fired himself because his rep was going to tank. Its called abandoning ship

 

[Apex Predator]

There is 3 sides to every story. We’ve heard Shanny, we’ve heard some of Dubas’ through leaks. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

[PromisedLand]

I mean this could be used the other way too. If you want to say some people go overboard with the praise, thats fine but "dubasites" is an embarrassing way to go about it. Also Lou still gets a lot of praise from fans here, so I don't agree he gets criticized a lot. Honestly anyone who used nicknames on either side of the argument shouldn't be taken seriously. You can have a good discussion without name calling and that goes for Dubas supporters and detractors.

So... are we doing "passing the tests" poll? or we don't need it because someone has already passed all the tests

 

[Apex Predator]

He inherited that team, he's left his mark on them now, go check their recent successes.

Do you think there’s a chance if Lou or someone else took over the team at Dubas’ point that they would still continue to have success with the core they inherited?

I believe if Lou continued, Hunter or someone else they would still have the same regular season success. Dubas inherited a team with tons of picks, prospects and cap space and was already a 100 point regular season team.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

The team is done no matter who the GM is when MLSE is making and having a say on hockey ops and hockey decisions. This is what you hire presidents for.

Really could be dark ages again if MLSE decides to keeps getting in the way of hockey decisions .

In what corporate structure does the president of a company have complete authority and autonomy to make every and all decisions?

The only one I know of is where the president is also the owner.

If you think the MLSE ownership group of Bell, Rogers and Larry Tanenbaum are going to put in a leader, no matter how competent that leader is, and give that person complete control and autonomy over the company I think you’re dreaming. It will never happen.

 

[notbias]

Do you think there’s a chance if Lou or someone else took over the team at Dubas’ point that they would still continue to have success with the core they inherited?

I believe if Lou continued, Hunter or someone else they would still have the same regular season success. Dubas inherited a team with tons of picks, prospects and cap space and was already a 100 point regular season team.

I believe Hunter would have wasted the draft picks as shown from his time drafting, and Lou would have ruined the team, like shown from his most recent stint as GM and his excellent Marleau/Zaitsev contracts.

 

[Skullz]

The more gets out about this, the worse I feel.

Dubas essentially lost a power struggle with Shanny. Got let go for it.

We’re looking to hire an experienced and great GM? Automatically anyone with any clout will not come to Toronto to be subordinate to Shanny and the board. Why would they if have much more autonomy elsewhere?

Some people still will, but I think it severely damages our potential pool of candidates. Also, we look seriously dysfunctional. It is concerning.

That being said, I reserve judgement till I see who we hire. Could end up being a good thing, but that will be hard to do.

 

[Antropovsky]

He inherited that team, he's left his mark on them now, go check their recent successes.

Lol... Before Lou, the Islanders didn't make the playoffs and also had just lost Tavares. Lou inherited significantly less talent than Dubas did. Lou brought in Lehner, Trotz, Komarov, Fillipula, Martin...and his team went played 17 playoff games, 19 playoff games and 8 playoff games. What has Dubas accomplished? He's done the same, kept the core and added his coach and role players and the team hasn't improved at all.

Winning is about the right goalie, the right coach and the right role players too.

 

[hockeywiz542]

In my opinion, this is probably what former Toronto Maple Leafs GM Kyle Dubas attempted to accomplish in his failed contract negotiations with Toronto Maple Leafs President and Alternate Governor Brendan Shanahan and Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Limited (MLSE).

Negotiations: How to handle an ultimatum

Question:What are some strategies for responding to the ultimatum, "take it or leave it"?Response: An ultimatum is a ploy to take control over the

biztimes.com

Negotiations: How to handle an ultimatum

Question:

What are some strategies for responding to the ultimatum, “take it or leave it”?

Response:

An ultimatum is a ploy to take control over the negotiation and attempt to force you to accept unreasonable terms or conditions. The two most common strategies include:

1. A deadline issued to force you to accept an unreasonable offer.

2. An assertion that the offer is on a “take it or leave it” basis.

The objective of an ultimatum is to create a sense of panic which causes the other party to accept an outlandish offer. Seasoned buyers who want to “break in” unsuspecting or inexperienced sales people will use an ultimatum to “teach them a thing or two.” Often their strategy is to wait until the deal is just about to close and then, without warning say, ‘Here’s my offer … you have until tomorrow, take it or leave it.” With an inadequate number of prospects in the pipeline, the sales person fears the loss of the sale and grudgingly, accepts the terms.

The result is of course, disastrous! The sales person has not only compromised his company’s profitability, but he has set a horrific precedent with his new customer. Adding to this pain is the cycle of self-criticism that will gnaw at the core of the sales person for a long time.

 

[Racer88]

I am sure it is more than just contracts since they wanted to streamline the process.

Contracts seem straightforward for approval compared to trades.

Interpret it how you want, but they are involved to some extent at least.

I know we will never know but it sure would be interesting to know the entire dynamic