Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[Donnie740]

What did Dubas do with all the inherited talent. The contracts were about to come up and the weasel probably made some family bs up and returned a ridiculous offer to not be bent over backwards and get slaughtered in the media for a second round of overpays or trading the core away. He got fired himself because his rep was going to tank. Its called abandoning ship

I agree 100% about the Dubas press conference being pathetic BS with his cringeworthy beta EMO act.

But I’m absolutely certain that Dubas wasn’t trying to get himself fired.

He knew Shannahan and MLSE wanted him back and he’d already received a contract offer.

His press conference charade was a pitiful attempt to squeeze more money/power/perks and stroke his own ego by having everyone grovel for him to please return.

Turns out is was another total failure at negotiating by Dubas.

 

[sxvnert]

I am sure it is more than just contracts since they wanted to streamline the process.

Contracts seem straightforward for approval compared to trades.

Interpret it how you want, but they are involved to some extent at least.

I'm sure it also prevents trading every pick humanly possible. Which has been Dubas' mo since the big four signing fiasco to compensate for the cap hell he put this team in.

 

[notbias]

I know we will never know but it sure would be interesting to know the entire dynamic

I agree, I am not saying the board/Shanny have overruled Dubas on many issues, or that they are involved in every move, just that we can't dismiss them being overly involved either.

I'd like to also know what was happening between them cause right now, I don't know how much of this team was Shanny, the board, or Dubas.

 

[PromisedLand]

LMAO "family situation"

 

[Superstar]

That is actually true..

They were joking about that on the radio recently, because the Leafs have the largest management group in the NHL, with Dubas having 6 assistant GMs alone and each one of those AGM had an assistant.

Even with Dubas and Spezza gone now the Leafs still have 4 acting assistant GMs and a whole lot of lower level staff. (excluding even coaching and business and finance people etc).

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If people are worried about the entry draft were Leafs only have 3 picks but have a Dir of scouting and management and a boat load of scouts.

The day to day operations are still running along uninterupted other than now Brandon Pridham is answering the trade calls phone.

Shanahan actually alluded to that in his presser...he still has many competent staff around not named Dubas.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

The more gets out about this, the worse I feel.

Dubas essentially lost a power struggle with Shanny. Got let go for it.

We’re looking to hire an experienced and great GM? Automatically anyone with any clout will not come to Toronto to be subordinate to Shanny and the board. Why would they if have much more autonomy elsewhere?

Some people still will, but I think it severely damages our potential pool of candidates. Also, we look seriously dysfunctional. It is concerning.

That being said, I reserve judgement till I see who we hire. Could end up being a good thing, but that will be hard to do.

I wouldn’t feel too bad about it.
Dubas hasn’t proven himself to be anything more than an adequate GM. He has had years to build a winner but couldn’t get it done.
He’s also shown himself to be a bit of a head case for his role in the current management crisis. It’s not unrealistic to have faith any other GM could do as well as he did.

 

[Mess]

What’s interesting is Dubas wanted to “streamline” the reporting process because he felt like the reporting structure was too complicated. Having to run things up to Shanahan and then the board, then all the way back down and that would be an issue during this seasons negotiations.

How could that possibly be if Shanahan could fire Dubas within 24 hours of the contract demand over a Thursday evening to a full press conference?

That shows how little autonomy Dubas had in big decisions and was acting more like simply the front man as GM, when the real decisions were coming from Shanny and the board.

The swiftness of the Dubas release also can be implied that MLSE wasn't 100% on board or disappointed to see him go. Afterall they left him without a contract and dangling in the wind all year unconcerned about losing him to free agency.

I personally believe they only agreed to a short-term low $$ value contract because of timing and big decisions needed in next 6-8 weeks and may have preferred to have started their real replacement search this summer and then willing to cut ties at any point when they found someone better. It would be good for appearances to display a solid management front rather than chaos at such a crucial time

Dubas was dead man walking essentially only their "stop-gap GM" for the next little while, with the up and down chain of command structure limited him and protected themselves and company assets (players) while they kept their own fingers on the pulse of what would happen, and pulling all the crucial strings anyways.

 

[sxvnert]

I agree 100% about the Dubas press conference being pathetic BS with his cringeworthy beta EMO act.

But I’m absolutely certain that Dubas wasn’t trying to get himself fired.

He knew Shannahan and MLSE wanted him back and he’d already received a contract offer.

His press conference charade was a pitiful attempt to squeeze more money/power/perks and stroke his own ego by having everyone grovel for him to please return.

Turns out is was another total failure at negotiating by Dubas.

Even Fletcher or Quinn who actually brought this team a decent amount of playoff success didn't have a sycophant following to this degree (if any). When the time came, fans & media moved on.

 

[Superstar]

Adding a NMC after bending over on term and dollars is a train wreck.

Yes, it's freakin' team sabotage...Dubas lined up Marner to have the NMC kick in the same time as Matthews despite a contract that is a year longer...why the heck does a player turning 27 as a UFA need a NMC in the final year on top of that massive contract with signing bonuses galore? It was ridiculous. Hate the contract then, and we're seeing how ugly it is now.

 

[Donnie740]

I believe Hunter would have wasted the draft picks as shown from his time drafting, and Lou would have ruined the team, like shown from his most recent stint as GM and his excellent Marleau/Zaitsev contracts.

The contracts for Marleau and Zaitsev weren’t even remotely close to being as horrible as the boat anchor contract Dubas gave to Pyjama Boy.

Lamoriello also never made such a disastrous trade as the Kadri for Ty Barrie and Al Kerfoot debacle.

 

[notbias]

The contracts for Marleau and Zaitsev weren’t even remotely close to being as horrible as the boat anchor contract Dubas gave to Pyjama Boy.

Lamoriello also never made such a disastrous trade as the Kadri for Ty Barrie and Al Kerfoot debacle.

Marleau + Zaitsev was the same cap hit as Tavares....

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Even Fletcher or Quinn who actually brought this team a decent amount of playoff success didn't have a sycophant following to this degree (if any). When the time came, fans & media moved on.

There’s a big difference in the circumstances of the firings. Both Fletcher and Quinn were let go when their teams were on the downswing and missed the playoffs. Dubas is getting fired after the team took a step forward and has been a consistent playoff and 100+ point team during his tenure.

 

[PromisedLand]

Lol welcome to amateur hour everyone. Kids eat free before 8

Good Riddance!!!

Just saw a tweet on twitter and it reminded me how much I was pissed last year at dubious

 

[Donnie740]

Even Fletcher or Quinn who actually brought this team a decent amount of playoff success didn't have a sycophant following to this degree (if any). When the time came, fans & media moved on.

Don’t confuse sabotage with incompetence.

Dubas has proven that he’s a terrible negotiator. He got absolutely fleeced by the agents for Matthews, Marner and Tavares.

It’s like when Gord Stellick gave away Courtnall for Kordic. Stellick wasn’t trying to sabotage the team, he was just hopelessly inept as a GM. Like Dubas is.

 

[OptimusReim]

Very happy to see Dubas go, I am left wondering what kind of success the team would have had if we just kept Babcock and Lou over Dubie and Keefe.

I mean a single 1st round win over 5 years would be the threshold, so that's a given, but would we have a cup or finals appearance by now? I would say it's more likely than not.

One thing I'm confident in given the Dubas worshipers on this board, the media love he's gotten and the fact Shanahan nearly extended him, Dubas is a slick talker and master manipulator.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

He inherited that team, he's left his mark on them now, go check their recent successes.

Let’s talk about what Lou inherited shall we.

Lou inherited a team that had missed the playoffs for two consecutive years and who just lost their franchise player in Tavares to free agency.

In his first year Lou returned the Isles to the playoffs and won a playoff round.

The next two years the Isles went to conference finals and Lou won GM of the year in back to back seasons.

Lou is still employed by the Islanders, Dubas is no longer employed by the Leafs.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

 

[Stephen]

Sure sounds like they have a hand in things if it has to go to the board, and then come back down.

Nothing floated from the Dubas camp makes any logical sense if you thought things through.

1) The pressure of the job is hard on family life. He may take time to step away from his post. But he spoke to the public before his family.

2) The job strain on the family was an unknown factor on the home life on Monday afternoon. By Thursday, Dubas was ready to assume even more responsibilities by 'streamlining' the process, presumably taking some of Shanahan's reporting duties to the board. Ok, that's one way to deal with work stress, take on even more...

3) MLSE is so dysfunctional with meddlesome owners which may impact the critical negotiations this summer. Okay, on the surface it sounds like a reasonable, time honoured critique of MLSE. However, the approval of the board doesn't go away with a streamlined reporting structure. It just cuts out a layer of management above the GM level.

4) Shanahan put his foot down pretty quickly and decisively on Friday, assuming with board support before Victoria Day Long Weekend. So how dysfunctional is MLSE when they can move that quickly on a big item?

The only framing from the Dubas side I've seen is the suggestion that job is a pain in the butt, we are mired in chaos as a backwards organization. Everyone else is incompetent, and you'll be lucky to have me (Dubas) reluctantly return and solve the problems no one else can and Shanny can kick rocks and go the way of Lamoriello, Hunter and Babcock.

I dunno man, you'd have to think the board of directors are seasoned political and corporate operators, as is Shanahan, and they acted very decisively.

 

[AllDay28]

LMAO "family situation"

You're obsessed man. It's Victoria Day go touch grass

 

[notbias]

Nothing floated from the Dubas camp makes any logical sense if you thought things through.

1) The pressure of the job is hard on family life. He may take time to step away from his post. But he spoke to the public before his family.

2) The job strain on the family was an unknown factor on the home life on Monday afternoon. By Thursday, Dubas was ready to assume even more responsibilities by 'streamlining' the process, presumably taking some of Shanahan's reporting duties to the board. Ok, that's one way to deal with work stress, take on even more...

3) MLSE is so dysfunctional with meddlesome owners which may impact the critical negotiations this summer. Okay, on the surface it sounds like a reasonable, time honoured critique of MLSE. However, the approval of the board doesn't go away with a streamlined reporting structure. It just cuts out a layer of management above the GM level.

4) Shanahan put his foot down pretty quickly and decisively on Friday, assuming with board support before Victoria Day Long Weekend. So how dysfunctional is MLSE when they can move that quickly on a big item?

The only framing from the Dubas side I've seen is the suggestion that job is a pain in the butt, we are mired in chaos as a backwards organization. Everyone else is incompetent, and you'll be lucky to have me (Dubas) reluctantly return and solve the problems no one else can and Shanny can kick rocks and go the way of Lamoriello, Hunter and Babcock.

I dunno man, you'd have to think the board of directors are seasoned political and corporate operators, as is Shanahan, and they acted very decisively.

None of this makes sense.

You start off by assuming it is Dubas' camp leaking things, it could just be an annoyed employee or player.

Then you go on to say half-truths to try to prove a point or not even proving a point.

 

[Superstar]

Do we have links that prove MLSE was doing that or did I just miss them.
thx in advance

Dubas fans are telling you that, why don't you believe them?

 

[Stephen]

That shows how little autonomy Dubas had in big decisions and was acting more like simply the front man as GM, when the real decisions were coming from Shanny and the board.

The swiftness of the Dubas release also can be implied that MLSE wasn't 100% on board or disappointed to see him go. Afterall they left him without a contract and dangling in the wind all year unconcerned about losing him to free agency.

I personally believe they only agreed to a short-term low $$ value contract because of timing and big decisions needed in next 6-8 weeks and may have preferred to have started their real replacement search this summer and then willing to cut ties at any point when they found someone better. It would be good for appearances to display a solid management front rather than chaos at such a crucial time

Dubas was dead man walking essentially only their "stop-gap GM" for the next little while, with the up and down chain of command structure limited him and protected themselves and company assets (players) while they kept their own fingers on the pulse of what would happen, and pulling all the crucial strings anyways.

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I supported a Dubas return before the playoffs and tended to slightly want to keep the status quo after Florida because he represented managerial continuity over the summer and could get into re-signing the big contracts coming up vs having to conduct a GM search like we are having now or having more uncertainty than necessary...

But when the GM himself starts throwing curveballs in a moment of uncertainty and looks to be making political moves vs his boss, that promise of stability goes away pretty quick.

You could make the argument of whether the team is better off with a President and GM Dubas vs President Shanahan and GM X, that would be a separate conversation. And honestly, no one really knows how collaborative their relationship was this whole time.

 

[AllDay28]

Nothing floated from the Dubas camp makes any logical sense if you thought things through.

1) The pressure of the job is hard on family life. He may take time to step away from his post. But he spoke to the public before his family.

2) The job strain on the family was an unknown factor on the home life on Monday afternoon. By Thursday, Dubas was ready to assume even more responsibilities by 'streamlining' the process, presumably taking some of Shanahan's reporting duties to the board. Ok, that's one way to deal with work stress, take on even more...

3) MLSE is so dysfunctional with meddlesome owners which may impact the critical negotiations this summer. Okay, on the surface it sounds like a reasonable, time honoured critique of MLSE. However, the approval of the board doesn't go away with a streamlined reporting structure. It just cuts out a layer of management above the GM level.

4) Shanahan put his foot down pretty quickly and decisively on Friday, assuming with board support before Victoria Day Long Weekend. So how dysfunctional is MLSE when they can move that quickly on a big item?

The only framing from the Dubas side I've seen is the suggestion that job is a pain in the butt, we are mired in chaos as a backwards organization. Everyone else is incompetent, and you'll be lucky to have me (Dubas) reluctantly return and solve the problems no one else can and Shanny can kick rocks and go the way of Lamoriello, Hunter and Babcock.

I dunno man, you'd have to think the board of directors are seasoned political and corporate operators, as is Shanahan, and they acted very decisively.

Why do people assume the family stuff is business related and not the losers on Twitter doxing and harassing people? One girl who used to work for them came out yesterday about the shit loser Leaf fans do including finding her address and harassing her.

 

[Donnie740]

Marleau + Zaitsev was the same cap hit as Tavares....

Check your facts, Boyo.

3/18.75 + 7/31.5 are nowhere close to as devastating as that 7/77 catastrophe.

The Dubas Fan Boi Club is just as laughably inept as their idol.

 

[Stephen]

None of this makes sense.

You start off by assuming it is Dubas' camp leaking things, it could just be an annoyed employee or player.

Then you go on to say half-truths to try to prove a point or not even proving a point.

I'm describing what Dubas said to the public and his actions, and the lobby for a streamlined process in reporting as the media has stated. Sorry if it's not flattering to Kyle Dubas. He attempted a palace coup and got rooted out.