Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[andora]

Matthews is the best player to play for the Leafs in many decades. Hart trophy winners don't come around very often. Any outcome that ends with him leaving the franchise is a huge loss. The window for contention closes with his removal full stop. We waited so many years to acquire a player of this calbire and so many here are happy to move on, I don't get it at all..

If we care more about him playing for the Maple Leafs then he does essentially there's nothing we can do about it and try and make the best of the situation

 

[hamzarocks]

Lol not really. You still don't get it. But I'll treat you to something - when you are born a b*tch, you die a b*tch. That's who was running your Leafs

I wouldn't say Dubas was born a bitch. Don't know his family background or lifestyle

Unfollowing is petty but this whole situation is petty from both dubas and shanny

If these two were happy and ready to f*** why did they wait till Monday presser then Thursday last week?

If dubas wants to be the GM for toronto sign that 4M extension that was discussed throughout the year at the deadline at the best or ASAP once game 5 is done so your back to figuring out the next steps for the leafs

If shanny was happy with him running the team moving forward then give dubas an ultimatum, your signing the extension game 1 of round 2 (that seems the bare minimum needed to get extended) or your done in Toronto even if you win the cup.

Delayed communication, dubas wanting more power+money and negotiating in bad faith, shanny having his feelings hurt led to this.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Lol not really. You still don't get it. But I'll treat you to something - when you are born a b*tch, you die a b*tch. That's who was running your Leafs

I didn't need your biography- you gave it anyway.

 

[Donnie740]

Lol. I didnt realize the second tweet didnt pop up. He unfollowed Shanahan like a little school girl.

Exactly what you’d expect from a petty little stick boy.

 

[Apex Predator]

I wouldn't say Dubas was born a bitch. Don't know his family background or lifestyle

Unfollowing is petty but this whole situation is petty from both dubas and shanny

If these two were happy and ready to f*** why did they wait till Monday presser then Thursday last week?

If dubas wants to be the GM for toronto sign that 4M extension that was discussed throughout the year at the deadline at the best or ASAP once game 5 is done so your back to figuring out the next steps for the leafs

If shanny was happy with him running the team moving forward then give dubas an ultimatum, your signing the extension game 1 of round 2 (that seems the bare minimum needed to get extended) or your done in Toronto even if you win the cup.

Delayed communication, dubas wanting more power+money and negotiating in bad faith, shanny having his feelings hurt led to this.

I don’t think it’s petty sometimes not being able to see what someone says is for the best. I have a person I worked with on Facebook and linkeldn. They quit and he has spent weeks talking bad about our work. Commenting on company posts and posting there own stuff about our work and how bad it is. I unfollowed them as I thought he was being a child doing this.

 

[Mitch nylander]

Absolutely, and another example of lacking context for those stats too.

Which is the main reason why there is hesitancy with +/- as a stat. I personally think there is some value to it, but of course you need context on it.

Holl was on the ice for 70% of the goals against. That is factual. Usually, not a good thing. Certainly a correlation worth exploring. The thing is, and this is why I really question people's eye tests, is that when you do dig deeper, you see that on more than a few of those goals, he is far from the reason why it went in the net. Forwards were missing assignments. Samsonov let some really soft goals in the net. Some really poor play from his partners. Sure Holl messed up too on some of them, and he, like many of the other defensemen on our team, had a rough playoffs at times.

Since I feel as though people will get too caught up in the biases of using names, I will just use a very simple to understand (and likely unrealistic) example: *Disclaimer, I am in no way saying that this applies to Justin Holl specifically and I do not want to suggest this is how it is when Holl is on the ice.

Say there is a defense pairing. We'll call them Pairing A. They play 25 minutes a night against tough competition. Never gives up anything more than a couple unscreened, undeflected floaters from the blue line... In other words, shots that the goalie should be making close to 100% of the time. But the goalie, for whatever reason, can't save it for crap. Goes in every time, 2 or 3 times a game. For the other 35 minutes, he is the best ice hockey goalie to ever grace this earth even though the other two pairings are complete tire fires and shouldn't even be in the NHL. Rarely gives up a goal, regardless of it being a Grade A one-timer or a breakaway.

Pairing A is probably on the ice for let's say 90% of the GA. So statistically, or at least in that statistic, they obviously suck. However, looking at their other statistics or even just watching them on the ice, anyone would see that clearly it is not their fault as much as the goalie on the ice. The goalie would have a brutal xGSA with Pairing A on the ice. They'd probably have the best underlying metrics in NHL history (and yes, even those require context).

Meanwhile, the other two pairings would be the polar opposites. Terrible underlying numbers but their actual numbers are great.

If Pairing A's goalie makes the saves he is supposed to make, they are likely never on the ice for a goal against for as long as they continue playing like they have. Meanwhile, the other two pairings likely find themselves out of work very fast as soon as the goalie stops bailing them out. Which would you prefer? I would think anyone with eyes would still take Pairing A, but at the same time, there are very few times when it is that obvious of a discrepancy as well.

People who are actually good at statistics and analytics know how to find and understand this context, or when a stat does not tell the entire story about a player, and they know that it does not exclusively come from looking at a spreadsheet... Which is exactly why that is not what they do. Of course, it also does not exclusively come from their eye test either. The good ones are able to find the best associations between statistics and know how to apply statistics to reality; for example:

- Is there a relationship between xGA and GA? Spoiler: A fairly strong positive correlation between the two.
- Do we care about a lot of chances or just having a few good ones?
- Is there anything supporting a player continuing to have a 20% shooting percentage long term, or is he just on a hot streak?
- Is Pairing A really as bad as their GA numbers suggest, or is there something else involved?

These are easier questions an NHL analytics department would be able to answer, with numbers alone, but there would never be a decision made without getting a scout or even an analytics person themselves (since believe it or not, people who work in NHL analytics departments often know more about hockey than a typical fan) to confirm the numbers. And the best teams are able to leverage both of those perspectives harmonically to be able to make the best, or at least most informed, decisions possible. And the more informed decisions you make, the better chance you are to make the decisions which lead to good results.

But I think the main lesson to glean from what I said is that analytics people do not just look at spreadsheets. At least not the good ones. I do not work for the Leafs, but I would be willing to bet that they are not only looking at spreadsheets either. As for Justin Holl, it has been proven time and again that most people's eye-tests on him are extremely biased at best or downright faulty at worst... And he is a lot better than the scrub they think he is.

Always respect your posts. Definitely one of the best posters on our board.

This is a very well written post.

I certainly think that preconceived biases often affect people's judgements of certain players. While Holl had his faults, he's still an nhl dman and will be one elsewhere.

 

[Lauro]

Further proof his "family stress" was a negotiating tactic and hes completely full of shit.

Being on someones radar? The bullshit takes in this thread alternate between dumb, childish and disgusting.

 

[Kaladin]

Being on someones radar? The bullshit takes in this thread alternate between dumb, childish and disgusting.

If he does get interviewed and accepts a job for next season will you withdraw this take? No? Smells like BS on your part then.

 

[Leaf Fans]

If he does get interviewed and accepts a job for next season will you withdraw this take? No? Smells like BS on your part then.

Why would it smell like BS if that is the case. If a team calls him and convinces him to change his mind about being a GM, then he can make that decision at the time.

 

[hockeyes]

I wouldn't say Dubas was born a bitch. Don't know his family background or lifestyle

Unfollowing is petty but this whole situation is petty from both dubas and shanny

If these two were happy and ready to f*** why did they wait till Monday presser then Thursday last week?

If dubas wants to be the GM for toronto sign that 4M extension that was discussed throughout the year at the deadline at the best or ASAP once game 5 is done so your back to figuring out the next steps for the leafs

If shanny was happy with him running the team moving forward then give dubas an ultimatum, your signing the extension game 1 of round 2 (that seems the bare minimum needed to get extended) or your done in Toronto even if you win the cup.

Delayed communication, dubas wanting more power+money and negotiating in bad faith, shanny having his feelings hurt led to this.

This is dumb my guy. Shanahan already went on record saying he wanted Dubas back as of the trade deadline. Pretending this saga was a back and forth ordeal does injustice to the realities. Only Dubas wanted to play games and try to screw the organization and man who gave him his big break for more money. What an absolute scum bag. Think about it, the guy who literally is responsible for every ounce of professional success, is the guy he is willing to screw to get a few bucks more.

 

[hockeyes]

Always respect your posts. Definitely one of the best posters on our board.

This is a very well written post.

I certainly think that preconceived biases often affect people's judgements of certain players. While Holl had his faults, he's still an nhl dman and will be one elsewhere.

This board has gone off the deep end if that dribble is considered a good post. Being on for 70% of goals against when you play 20% of the time means you are doing something wrong. Full stop.

 

[Kaladin]

Why would it smell like BS if that is the case. If a team calls him and convinces him to change his mind about being a GM, then he can make that decision at the time.

How convenient. So he gets the plaudits in the moment for saying he can’t think about being a GM for any other team besides the Leafs and also gets to actually just GM somewhere else anyways?

Charmed life Dubas lives. All paths lead to him getting no flak for some folks.

 

[Leaf Fans]

How convenient. So he gets the plaudits in the moment for saying he can’t think about being a GM for any other team besides the Leafs and also gets to actually just GM somewhere else anyways?

Charmed life Dubas lives. All paths lead to him getting no flak for some folks.

Maybe. I have no idea what would happen, but another team might make him think about it. Maybe he does live a charmed life, maybe a week of unemployment gives him food for thought.

 

[leafs in five]

Lol welcome to amateur hour everyone. Kids eat free before 8

pretty clumsy delivery

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Shanahan is so incompetent he couldn't even fire Dubas properly.

The Leafs are engaging in a shuffling of the managerial deck chairs. And honor amongst thieves is par for the NHL. So Shanahan gets to remain president over this mess Dubas created.

For now.

ML$E needs to make a decision soon. Shanahan is entering the last year of his contract. They left Dubas in lame duck status all year long.

Doing the same with Shanahan would be a strange way to go about attracting top talent.

 

[thewave]

Shanahan is so incompetent he couldn't even fire Dubas properly.

The Leafs are engaging in a shuffling of the managerial deck chairs. And honor amongst thieves is par for the NHL. So Shanahan gets to remain president over this mess Dubas created.

For now.

ML$E needs to make a decision soon. Shanahan is entering the last year of his contract. They left Dubas in lame duck status all year long.

Doing the same with Shanahan would be a strange way to go about attracting top talent.

The most competent person in the organization was Lou. The second most competent is Pridham. Babcock like him or not was also competent and I am sure there are some scouts and all of that but nobody is talking about them right now.

Essentially it's a misdirected franchise that fell flat. Made a ton of mistakes and are essentially a laughing stock dealing with NMCs etc.

 

[rumman]

MAPLE LEAF NOTES: Kyle Dubas to Pittsburgh could be back on

Kyle Dubas could wind up getting an interview as GM of the Pittsburgh Penguins after all, a week after he said it was Leafs or bust.

torontosun.com

Toronto Maple Leafs general manager Kyle Dubas speaks about his family and his future with the organization at the podium on locker clean-up day in Toronto on Monday May 15, 2023. Photo by Jack Boland /Toronto Sun/Postmedia Network

A week after he assured the media he wouldn’t suddenly pop up somewhere else in the NHL if the Maple Leafs fired him, Kyle Dubas could be on the Pittsburgh Penguins’ radar.

That was the team he was immediately linked to after calls for change in Toronto increased with its meek playoff exit against Florida. The Penguins were well into the search to replace Brian Burke (another one-time Leaf exec) and Ron Hextall in their front office, when Dubas said last Monday he’d either remain in place or accept his pink slip and take time off with his family after what he described as an emotionally difficult season.

But his surprise dismissal by club president Brendan Shanahan after Dubas dithered about terms of his extension, raised questions if he’d really turn down an offer to get right back in the game.

While Dubas has yet to speak publicly about his convoluted departure – Shanahan shared his version with the media on Friday – Sportsnet’s Elliotte Friedman reported Saturday night that the Pens will likely approach the Leafs for permission to speak to Dubas prior to his official contract expiration on June 30.

That has not been confirmed on the Pittsburgh side yet. Led by David Beeston of the Fenway Sports Group, that club was well into the process of looking into leading candidates Dan MacKinnon (senior vice-president of the Devils), Eric Tulsky (assistant GM of the Hurricanes), Steve Greeley (director of scouting and hockey strategy in Dallas) and Jason Karmanos (Buffalo’s associate GM).

If Dubas intends a quick return somewhere, it would be worth the phone call by Beeston to Shanahan for due diligence. Dubas has some name recognition which has excited fans in the Steel City who are unfamiliar with the other candidates and it would be an instant conference rivalry.

But should he even get to the interview stage, Dubas would have to walk back a portion of Monday’s emotional address.

So much for Toronto or bust. That presser was all about squeezing as much juice out of MLSE as possible, but true to form Dubas screwed up the negotiations. BTW, I wouldn’t touch him with a barge pole……….

 

[rumman]

Lol welcome to amateur hour everyone. Kids eat free before 8

“That’ll show them…….”

 

[rumman]

Matthews is the best player to play for the Leafs in many decades. Hart trophy winners don't come around very often. Any outcome that ends with him leaving the franchise is a huge loss. The window for contention closes with his removal full stop. We waited so many years to acquire a player of this calbire and so many here are happy to move on, I don't get it at all..

So your opposed to trading 34, are you okay paying whatever his ask is? Are you comfortable losing him for nothing if he doesn’t want to resign? Whatif the return of said trade was a overpayment? Interesting……….

 

[Malachi Crunch]

My God, those comments. He's actually managed to create a cult following.

Look in my eyes
What do you see?
The cult of personality
I know your anger, I know your dreams
I've been everything you want to be
Oh, I'm the cult of personality
Like Mussolini and Kennedy
I'm the cult of personality
The cult of personality
The cult of personality
Neon lights, a Nobel prize
When a mirror speaks, the reflection lies
You won't have to follow me
Only you can set me free
I sell the things you need to be
I'm the smiling face on your TV
Oh, I'm the cult of personality
I exploit you, still you love me
I tell you, one and one makes three
Oh, I'm the cult of personality
Like Joseph Stalin and Gandhi
I'm the cult of personality

 

[LeafSteel]

Look in my eyes
What do you see?
The cult of personality
I know your anger, I know your dreams
I've been everything you want to be
Oh, I'm the cult of personality
Like Mussolini and Kennedy
I'm the cult of personality
The cult of personality
The cult of personality
Neon lights, a Nobel prize
When a mirror speaks, the reflection lies
You won't have to follow me
Only you can set me free
I sell the things you need to be
I'm the smiling face on your TV
Oh, I'm the cult of personality
I exploit you, still you love me
I tell you, one and one makes three
Oh, I'm the cult of personality
Like Joseph Stalin and Gandhi
I'm the cult of personality

Living Color (the band, not the television show) doesn’t get nearly enough love man.

Thanks for putting this one back in my head man. Will be playing it later today with a beverage.

Happy May 2-4 everyone! Stay safe!

 

[Malachi Crunch]

Living Color (the band, not the television show) doesn’t get nearly enough love man.

Thanks for putting this one back in my head man. Will be playing it later today with a beverage.

Happy May 2-4 everyone! Stay safe!

Agreed! That first LC album was amazing.
Happy 2-4!

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Gonna be a good book or two written in the future about this subject.

The Dirge of the Doobler

Written by Jonas Seigel

 

[rumman]

Look in my eyes
What do you see?
The cult of personality
I know your anger, I know your dreams
I've been everything you want to be
Oh, I'm the cult of personality
Like Mussolini and Kennedy
I'm the cult of personality
The cult of personality
The cult of personality
Neon lights, a Nobel prize
When a mirror speaks, the reflection lies
You won't have to follow me
Only you can set me free
I sell the things you need to be
I'm the smiling face on your TV
Oh, I'm the cult of personality
I exploit you, still you love me
I tell you, one and one makes three
Oh, I'm the cult of personality
Like Joseph Stalin and Gandhi
I'm the cult of personality

Great song, great band……..

 

[hockeywiz542]

Dreger on Leafs' decision to part ways with Dubas: 'The seed of doubt was planted on Monday' - TSN.ca

Toronto Maple Leafs President Brendan Shanahan says that the club fully intended to bring GM Kyle Dubas back on another contract, and that Dubas expressed interest in coming back too. Yet, now, Kyle Dubas and the Maple Leafs are parting ways. Where did it all break down? Darren Dreger and Cheryl Pounder join James Duthie to discuss Dubas' departure.