Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[57 Years No Cup]

Trading Matthews would likely be a career ender for Shanahan. Especially given that prior to Dubas' firing Matthews had publicly declared his desire to extend.

Trading him would look like Shanny drove him from the team by his other actions (regardless if it's actually true or not).

Nonsense. Trading a playoff bust player who essentially is making a pay me or I walk ultimatum makes Shanny a hero in my book and probably most if all LEAFS FANS not player or Dubas fans.

Logo first always.

 

[Menzinger]

Nonsense. Trading a playoff bust player who essentially is making a pay me or I walk ultimatum makes Shanny a hero in my book and probably most if all LEAFS FANS not player or Dubas fans.

Logo first always.

He might very well be a hero in your view, but I doubt the MLSE ownership board will share the same perspective.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Nonsense. Trading a playoff bust player who essentially is making a pay me or I walk ultimatum makes Shanny a hero in my book and probably most if all LEAFS FANS not player or Dubas fans.

Logo first always.

Matthews is the best player to play for the Leafs in many decades. Hart trophy winners don't come around very often. Any outcome that ends with him leaving the franchise is a huge loss. The window for contention closes with his removal full stop. We waited so many years to acquire a player of this calbire and so many here are happy to move on, I don't get it at all..

 

[Superstar]

Do you agree with this interpretation from Twitter regarding the breakdown in negotiations between Toronto Maple Leafs President and Alternate Governor Brendan Shanahan and former GM Kyle Dubas?

It really came down to Dubas' commitment to the job of being the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs that came into question when Dubas' said in his presser that he wasn't sure he still wanted to continue to be the GM...it's really that simple...Shanahan didn't become one of the best power forwards of his generation, a 3 time Cup champion and a Hall of Famer because he did things half-heartedly, and he obviously would not want a GM to do things half-heartedly...Dubas should have understood what kind of boss he had in Shanahan...when the ultimate goal is to bring back the Stanley Cup to the Toronto Maple Leafs, there is no room for hesitancy...the counter-offer by Dubas was also a slap in the face when Shanahan had been the one speaking to the MLSE Board and convinced them to give Dubas a new contract...a counter-off by Dubas from $4 million to $6-$7 million over 5 years based on 1 playoff round victory over 5 years? Are you kidding me? Did Dubas expect Shanahan to make that ridiculous proposal to MLSE?

 

[Stephen]

Matthews is the best player to play for the Leafs in many decades. Hart trophy winners don't come around very often. Any outcome that ends with him leaving the franchise is a huge loss. The window for contention closes with his removal full stop. We waited so many years to acquire a player of this calbire and so many here are happy to move on, I don't get it at all..

You only really move on from Matthews if it's his intention to move on, but if not, you make it work and fit things around him. That's how it works with franchise players even if he's not perfect.

Seems like a lot of people are invested in a Matthews will betray Toronto narrative for whatever reason.

 

[Superstar]

He might very well be a hero in your view, but I doubt the MLSE ownership board will share the same perspective.

So if Matthews wants $14 to $15 million over 5 years, Shanahan should just gladly go to the board and tell them it's a good deal when his comparable makes $12.6 million over 8 years?

 

[3blizzard4]

Lol welcome to amateur hour everyone. Kids eat free before 8

Wow did he really remove his previous employer from his profile? I still have McDonald's dishwasher on mine when I worked there one summer in 1994. What a douche bag.

 

[Stephen]

It really came down to Dubas' commitment to the job of being the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs that came into question when Dubas' said in his presser that he wasn't sure he still wanted to continue to be the GM...it's really that simple...Shanahan didn't become one of the best power forwards of his generation, a 3 time Cup champion and a Hall of Famer because he did things half-heartedly, and he obviously would not want a GM to do things half-heartedly...Dubas should have understood what kind of boss he had in Shanahan...when the ultimate goal is to bring back the Stanley Cup to the Toronto Maple Leafs, there is no room for hesitancy...the counter-offer by Dubas was also a slap in the face when Shanahan had been the one speaking to the MLSE Board and convinced them to give Dubas a new contract...a counter-off by Dubas from $4 million to $6-$7 million over 5 years based on 1 playoff round victory over 5 years? Are you kidding me? Did Dubas expect Shanahan to make that ridiculous proposal to MLSE?

My reaction on Monday to Dubas' personal comments was that it was too much information and that it would be difficult for him to continue the work as the head of the Leafs in his front office role. Didn't think it would necessarily get him in trouble with the board and Shanahan but practically wouldn't have made his life easier.

Generally I'm having a hard time thinking of corporate leaders in any field really making a public case about how taxing and awful their job is, and then have to represent that organization to the public as its buttoned up, sleek corporate voice. I don't think a Tim Cook is going to talk about how awful working at Apple is and then sell you on an iPhone 20.0.

Commitment aside, it just made the Toronto market look so difficult for someone to work or play in. How is he going to recruit Joe Free Agent down the road and tell them what a wonderful market it is? Aren't questions going to be asked about pressures on the family, how crazy the media is, are the fans jerks in public?

He shot his shot. It was no good.

 

[Menzinger]

So if Matthews wants $14 to $15 million over 5 years, Shanahan show just gladly go to the board and tell them it's a good deal when his comparable makes $12.6 million over 8 years?

The same ownerships board that approves 24 million + salaries for guys on the Jays and 35 million + for guys on the Raptors probably isn't going to suddenly tighten the purse strings for the Leafs.

Especially if the alternative is trading the biggest star this franchise has had in decades for draft pick and lesser assets.

Imo too many people are coming at this issue from their own pov, and not enough time thinking about how an ownership group that's not as emotionally attached to the team is going to behave

 

[Superstar]

My reaction on Monday to Dubas' personal comments was that it was too much information and that it would be difficult for him to continue the work as the head of the Leafs in his front office role. Didn't think it would necessarily get him in trouble with the board and Shanahan but practically wouldn't have made his life easier.

Generally I'm having a hard time thinking of corporate leaders in any field really making a public case about how taxing and awful their job is, and then have to represent that organization to the public as its buttoned up, sleek corporate voice. I don't think a Tim Cook is going to talk about how awful working at Apple is and then sell you on an iPhone 20.0.

Commitment aside, it just made the Toronto market look so difficult for someone to work or play in. How is he going to recruit Joe Free Agent down the road and tell them what a wonderful market it is? Aren't questions going to be asked about pressures on the family, how crazy the media is, are the fans jerks in public?

He shot his shot. It was no good.

Those are some great points. Plus, it came across as pretty selfish and petty...that's why Shanahan says the nature of their work is always difficult on families, it's a given and comes with the territory, which begs the question of why even talk about it? You can't be a chef and complain the kitchen is too hot.

 

[Stephen]

The same ownerships board that approves 24 million + salaries for guys on the Jays and 35 million + for guys on the Raptors probably isn't going to suddenly tighten the purse strings for the Leafs.

Especially if the alternative is trading the biggest start this franchise has had in decades for draft pick and lesser assets.

Imo too many people are coming at this issue from their own pov, and not enough time thinking about how an ownership group that's not as emotionally attached to the team is going to behave

I think it's all about good faith negotiating. So the ask can be massive, you can have communication and work out the variables. Once there's a framework, it would be bad form to go create some drama in public, and then drive up the price again...

But pressure tactics tend to work more on the player level than the executive level. A manager is the face of an org and whatever messy negotiating needs to be done in house so you can present a clean united front office to the world. Also, players like Matthews generates money for the organization in a way Kyle Dubas doesn't as a manager, so you give the world to the talent, but doesn't really apply the same way to a manager.

 

[hizzoner]

Matthews is the best player to play for the Leafs in many decades. Hart trophy winners don't come around very often. Any outcome that ends with him leaving the franchise is a huge loss. The window for contention closes with his removal full stop. We waited so many years to acquire a player of this calbire and so many here are happy to move on, I don't get it at all..

I get what you are saying but hockey is a business. The Leafs hav

 

[Superstar]

The same ownerships board that approves 24 million + salaries for guys on the Jays and 35 million + for guys on the Raptors probably isn't going to suddenly tighten the purse strings for the Leafs.

Especially if the alternative is trading the biggest star this franchise has had in decades for draft pick and lesser assets.

Imo too many people are coming at this issue from their own pov, and not enough time thinking about how an ownership group that's not as emotionally attached to the team is going to behave

But are those other salaries massive overpayments that would cripple a team under a salary cap like the Leafs? The point is to build a team that could win the Cup...the Leafs could still make the playoffs without Matthews if we trade him for a package, but overpaying him so much would prevent the Leafs from winning the Cup. There needs to some balance and fairness here, and massively overpaying Matthews just to keep him is not the solution.

 

[Stephen]

Those are some great points. Plus, it came across as pretty selfish and petty...that's why Shanahan says the nature of their work is always difficult on families, it's a given and comes with the territory, which begs the question of why even talk about it? You can't be a chef and complain the kitchen is too hot.

Well, it came across a little performative to be honest. I appreciate the sentiments about being family orient as a human being, and time and work pressures. But those words shouldn't have been for us. Have your conversations. Decide as a family. Keep it private and don't put them into public discourse.

 

[The Masters]

Wow did he really remove his previous employer from his profile? I still have McDonald's dishwasher on mine when I worked there one summer in 1994. What a douche bag.

Lol. I didnt realize the second tweet didnt pop up. He unfollowed Shanahan like a little school girl.

 

[Stephen]

But are those other salaries massive overpayments that would cripple a team under a salary cap like the Leafs? The point is to build a team that could win the Cup...the Leafs could still make the playoffs without Matthews if we trade him for a package, but overpaying him so much would prevent the Leafs from winning the Cup. There needs to some balance and fairness here, and massively overpaying Matthews just to keep him is not the solution.

I disagree with that. Obviously I want to re-sign Matthews and keep building around him so I'm making a case to justify it. But we have actually already allocated $11.6 million in cap right now and whatever raise he gets to is a smaller percentage upgrade than you think. So the cost of Matthews is largely baked in. The delta between what we pay him now and $13 million is less than Connor Timmins. So you don't really throw it out the window out of frustration.

Also, the cap structure will change after Year 1 of the new contract. John Tavares' contract expires so the Big 4, which unlocks massive spending potential.

 

[Superstar]

Well, it came across a little performative to be honest. I appreciate the sentiments about being family orient as a human being, and time and work pressures. But those words shouldn't have been for us. Have your conversations. Decide as a family. Keep it private and don't put them into public discourse.

This one is a learning experience for Dubas, which betrays his age and inexperience...I don't think we would ever hear him talk publicly about how hard his job is on his family again wherever he works in the NHL.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Lol. I didnt realize the second tweet didnt pop up. He unfollowed Shanahan like a little school girl.

That is making a mountian out of a molehill.

 

[Superstar]

I disagree with that. Obviously I want to re-sign Matthews and keep building around him so I'm making a case to justify it. But we have actually already allocated $11.6 million in cap right now and whatever raise he gets to is a smaller percentage upgrade than you think. So the cost of Matthews is largely baked in. The delta between what we pay him now and $13 million is less than Connor Timmins. So you don't really throw it out the window out of frustration.

Also, the cap structure will change after Year 1 of the new contract. John Tavares' contract expires so the Big 4, which unlocks massive spending potential.

$13 million per is fine with me, even for 5 years this time around since he'll be in his early 30's when it expires...I'm not fine with some other figures being thrown around like $14 to $15 million per.

 

[hizzoner]

Leafs lost out on tens of millions of playoff dollars over the last few seasons with its core intact. Losing Matthews will not likely hurt their bottom line in ticket revenue or tv/radio revenue. Will lose in sweater sales BUT if they get something good in return that may lead to the playoffs and a ton of money coming in.. Whether the Leafs have become too comfortable/lack a player with a killer instinct is a topic for another discussion. Certainly not one of the core fits that description and if Matthews is available only as rental the chances of getting one of those players or a cost effective top D is unlikely. A new GM has to factor all of that in the decision making process. Every hockey fan has to be watching how this plays out.

 

[Stephen]

$13 million per is fine with me, even for 5 years this time around since he'll be in his early 30's when it expires...I'm not fine with some other figures being thrown around like $14 to $15 million per.

$13-$13.5 on a 6x year deal would be the upper range of my comfort level. Happy not to go to 7x and 8x years. But don’t want to be for shorter than 5x. Go beyond that and I’ll be increasingly unhappy and hostile in my expectations.

 

[The Masters]

That is making a mountian out of a molehill.

Lol not really. You still don't get it. But I'll treat you to something - when you are born a b*tch, you die a b*tch. That's who was running your Leafs

 

[andora]

Mhm. Like I don't care if you want to use analytics to show someone had a good game or whatever, but don't tell me someone had a good game when they had 2 turnovers or more that lead to goals against that lost us the game and say that player wasn't the problem.

I don't think that's what was being discussed limiting it to one specific game. But changing the parameters to a single game like you said combining video and Analytics would give you the entire picture

 

[Jmo89]

My God, those comments. He's actually managed to create a cult following.

There are actually people who are bigger Kyle Dubas fans than Leafs fans.

That persons Twitter is a bit unbelievable though. I'm leaning toward it being a meme account. From "Dubas' biggest fan" in their bio to sulking about him not being at the all star game in Toronto.

 

[MCR74]

So if Matthews wants $14 to $15 million over 5 years, Shanahan show just gladly go to the board and tell them it's a good deal when his comparable makes $12.6 million over 8 years?

Matthews' playoff resume doesn't deserve $14M. Some tough decisions will have to be made. Personally, if he wants that much, some other team can pick up the bill. l'm tired of the excuses. Same goes for Marner.