Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

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Finances, legal, PR, not sure what else.

I know for players they also are kind of like a concierge service.
Those are secondary priorities of the agency, and it all serves towards the main goal - getting you paid. The more you get paid - the more they get paid. I don't want to sit here explaining to you what agencies do.

Are you honestly not curious to see if there's more examples around the league of this?
 
He is outside his mind if his agent thought this was a good idea.

And we have to deal with these guy in the next 6 weeks with Matthews? FML.
Matthews is coming off a sub par regular season, a brutal performance in the second round, and has shown signs of being injury prone. If his agent is unreasonable, I would be totally fine with selling high on him before his NMC kicks in.
 
Those are secondary priorities of the agency, and it all serves towards the main goal - getting you paid. The more you get paid - the more they get paid. I don't want to sit here explaining to you what agencies do.

Are you honestly not curious to see if there's more examples around the league of this?

I can't find a list of GM's agents, so not that curious.

I know how agencies work. If you think his main priority is to get paid, why not hire the same agent as Matthews? That'd be the most leverage. Your conspiracy doesn't make much sense.
 
Dubas made Matthews and Marner among the highest paid players in the NHL (without even getting maximum term) despite the fact that they had not accomplished anything beyond the regular season. It shouldn't come as a surprise that Dubas expected no less in his own contract negotiations.

This sense of entitlement that exists within the organization has to be exorcized at all costs.
The "demons" Maclean was talking about is entitlement and greed.
Keefe would have to apologize if he called out AM or MM - they would play huge minutes even if they were playing horribly. They dropped the dress code for a bit, played music in practice, they played together even when it wasn't working. No accountability
Shanny should take some blame too though - he was willing to extend him this summer, but not last!?
 

Partly a matter of money, partly a wrestle for power, people can and will debate for years how this played out and which exact version of events they want to believe, but the bottom line is that Dubas is out as Leafs GM after five years.

Maybe we’ll look back in years and say this was a bold and brilliant pivot from Shanahan after seeing what he perceived as red flags in Dubas’ hesitance or contract counter. Or maybe it’ll go down as one of the organization’s great blunders to let this 37-year-old GM go.

And there will be time for Dubas, too, to look back at whether he overplayed his hand.

No one has that answer yet.

...........

“Came in as a young GM, was very respectful with his peers,” Bergevin said. “Montreal and Toronto are the most pressure markets in the NHL, for sure. Passionate fan bases.”

Here’s what they said.

Blue Jackets GM Jarmo Kekalainen: “I have the utmost respect for Kyle, both as a professional and as a person. He’s always a straight shooter to deal with. No bulls—. Just an all-around really good person and a professional. All our discussions were straightforward and analytical. I think he has a very thorough approach to everything; you have to be prepared when you talk to him because he’s going to look at things from every angle. I have a lot of respect for him.”

Oilers GM Ken Holland: “Very bright young man. Very respectful. I thought he did a great job in his time running the Leafs, having them near the top of the standings every year.”

Panthers GM Bill Zito: “Obviously, a very bright man. And a guy that I have a lot of faith in his character. He’s a guy you could do a deal with. And if it wasn’t papered, you could tell the (player) go ahead get on the plane. As an agent, we used to say if you did a deal with a GM and you didn’t have a contract back yet, would you send your player on the plane? That’s a level of respect I have for Kyle’s integrity. Obviously, I’m very fond of him. I think he did a hell of a job there.”


Outgoing Predators GM David Poile: “I think Kyle is one of the finest young minds in hockey. I really enjoyed getting to know him. He was a great contributor at the GM (meetings) level. Always good to talk to on the phone on hockey and GM things, players. Very impressed with Kyle every time I talked to him.”

Hurricanes team president and GM Don Waddell: “Kyle is a very smart person. Being in a tougher media market, he doesn’t allow the pressure to affect his decisions.”

Former Flames GM Brad Treliving: “Kyle is a smart, calculated and thoughtful manager, and he did a good job.”


And finally, when reaching out to Lightning GM Julien BriseBois, he referred me to the comment he gave me after the first round of the playoffs when the Leafs beat Tampa Bay and I asked him about Dubas and the Leafs finally winning a playoff series.

“Kyle has done a remarkable job from the day he was promoted to GM,” BriseBois told me on April 29. “He and his management team never leave any stone unturned. They are always grinding and coming up with creative ways to move their team forward. He has been bold and resolute in a very challenging environment in which to act thusly.

“The stars finally aligned for him to be rewarded for all of his great work with a playoff series win. Good for him.”
Wonder what all these GM's privately thought when Dubas almost single handedly got rid of the concept of NHL players taking less money during RFA lol. They have nothing to gain from not being nice publicly.
 
Just looking at our roster and contracts, Dubas left us in a rough spot.

Knies-Matthews-Marner
Tavares-_______-Nylander
Jarnkrok-_______-Laffrrty
_______-_______-_______

Reilly-Brodie
McCabe-Liljegren
Giordano-Timmins

Murray
Woll

Tavares can't play centre anymore, so we need to sign at least 3 centres to fill out the roster.

The blueline is locked in, but it isn't nearly good enough.

Samsonov needs a contract.

We have less than 9 million in cap space.

Our 3 main trade assets are just weeks away from full NMCs.
Add the mess he left wrt our draft capital. Honestly boggles the mind that some wanted him back including the dummies running the team.

1684599818903.png
 

“You just saw how ruthless Brendan Shanahan can be.”

That was one view from inside the Maple Leafs house on Friday evening, hours after the team president walked away from his GM of five years, Kyle Dubas, and delivered an oddly detailed, day-by-day, almost hour-by-hour recount of a failed negotiation on a contract extension in a short press conference.

Less than a week after the Leafs were eliminated by the Florida Panthers in the NHL playoffs, the front office has effectively been pulled apart, first with the Dubas decision and then with the news that all three Marlies coaches were fired and special assistant to the GM Jason Spezza had resigned.

It’s also clear that more dismissals and resignations are coming in the near future.

Perhaps a lot of them.

As reported previously in the aftermath of the Leafs elimination, Shanahan and Dubas had been at odds for a while. On Friday, more details emerged on that front. Multiple sources close to the team said that Shanahan had blocked transactions that Dubas wanted to make at key points in the past several seasons, creating frustration in parts of the management group. Shanahan had also at times dictated certain moves he wanted made that Dubas didn’t agree with.

The president, as per his place in the hierarchy, typically won out in those battles. And, in some cases, the moves that weren’t made could have improved the Leafs’ ability to advance further in the playoffs.


Some of those disagreements likely contributed to the disarray Monday, when Dubas delivered an emotionally charged, unusual season-ending press conference during which he declined to commit to coming back as GM.

.........

The friction in the Leafs front office and the relationship between the two men was still a factor, however, and Dubas’ desire for greater autonomy from Shanahan is believed to have been one of the untold reasons for how things ultimately played out.

Now those remaining in the organization are taking sides. Some on the Dubas side are preparing, like Spezza, to leave. Others are hopeful of moving up in the new world order.


It is, in short, a bit of a mess.

Others connected to the team, however, are simply disappointed that what had been a successful partnership between Shanahan and Dubas for nine years fell apart so quickly and so publicly.

Everyone knew all was not well. But few expected it to implode like this, right before the finish line.

“Really tough on everyone,” said one team source. “Not feeling great about the whole thing today. It should have ended very differently.”

It should have ended, they say, with Dubas remaining the Leafs GM.
 
Matthews is coming off a sub par regular season, a brutal performance in the second round, and has shown signs of being injury prone. If his agent is unreasonable, I would be totally fine with selling high on him before his NMC kicks in.
It has to be 12.7m x 8 years. Makes him the highest paid in the league and it's a similar deal to Mackinnon who just signed 8 months ago on a contender.

Leafs get a good deal and he gets to say he's highest paid in the league for a bit.

We've seen being paid fairly doesn't work. You either choose to get paid or choose to win and it can't be both.
 
I was just thinking, perhaps the decision to let Dubas go came from higher up. They didn't like all the nonsense drama at the presser. Very possible that it was more of a demand and that's why Shanny looked uncomfortable laying it out.

Just mentioning because there was that talk about the owners being divided on an issue.

This was my thinking. I'm sure Shanny had some doubts after Dubas' presser but I believe the MLSE board didn't take said presser very kindly and instructed Shannahan to publicly put Dubas on blast.

Dubas' contractual demands at the last minute was the final nail in the coffin.
 
It has to be 12.7m x 8 years. Makes him the highest paid in the league and it's a similar deal to Mackinnonbwho just signed 8 months ago on a contender.

Leafs get a good deal and he gets to say he's highest paid in the league for a bit.

We've seen being paid fairly doesn't work. You either choose to get paid or choose to win and it can't be both.
Even 12 million should be more than enough at maximum term if Matthews is truly a team player.

I don't see it happening unfortunately.
 

Partly a matter of money, partly a wrestle for power, people can and will debate for years how this played out and which exact version of events they want to believe, but the bottom line is that Dubas is out as Leafs GM after five years.

Maybe we’ll look back in years and say this was a bold and brilliant pivot from Shanahan after seeing what he perceived as red flags in Dubas’ hesitance or contract counter. Or maybe it’ll go down as one of the organization’s great blunders to let this 37-year-old GM go.

And there will be time for Dubas, too, to look back at whether he overplayed his hand.

No one has that answer yet.

...........

“Came in as a young GM, was very respectful with his peers,” Bergevin said. “Montreal and Toronto are the most pressure markets in the NHL, for sure. Passionate fan bases.”

Here’s what they said.

Blue Jackets GM Jarmo Kekalainen: “I have the utmost respect for Kyle, both as a professional and as a person. He’s always a straight shooter to deal with. No bulls—. Just an all-around really good person and a professional. All our discussions were straightforward and analytical. I think he has a very thorough approach to everything; you have to be prepared when you talk to him because he’s going to look at things from every angle. I have a lot of respect for him.”

Oilers GM Ken Holland: “Very bright young man. Very respectful. I thought he did a great job in his time running the Leafs, having them near the top of the standings every year.”

Panthers GM Bill Zito: “Obviously, a very bright man. And a guy that I have a lot of faith in his character. He’s a guy you could do a deal with. And if it wasn’t papered, you could tell the (player) go ahead get on the plane. As an agent, we used to say if you did a deal with a GM and you didn’t have a contract back yet, would you send your player on the plane? That’s a level of respect I have for Kyle’s integrity. Obviously, I’m very fond of him. I think he did a hell of a job there.”


Outgoing Predators GM David Poile: “I think Kyle is one of the finest young minds in hockey. I really enjoyed getting to know him. He was a great contributor at the GM (meetings) level. Always good to talk to on the phone on hockey and GM things, players. Very impressed with Kyle every time I talked to him.”

Hurricanes team president and GM Don Waddell: “Kyle is a very smart person. Being in a tougher media market, he doesn’t allow the pressure to affect his decisions.”

Former Flames GM Brad Treliving: “Kyle is a smart, calculated and thoughtful manager, and he did a good job.”


And finally, when reaching out to Lightning GM Julien BriseBois, he referred me to the comment he gave me after the first round of the playoffs when the Leafs beat Tampa Bay and I asked him about Dubas and the Leafs finally winning a playoff series.

“Kyle has done a remarkable job from the day he was promoted to GM,” BriseBois told me on April 29. “He and his management team never leave any stone unturned. They are always grinding and coming up with creative ways to move their team forward. He has been bold and resolute in a very challenging environment in which to act thusly.

“The stars finally aligned for him to be rewarded for all of his great work with a playoff series win. Good for him.”

I'll save everyone the trouble.

The "I hate Dubas" club will just say they think differently privately.

Dubas and Matthews with same agent? I find it is interesting why media didn't report this before. It's like the Toronto media was working for Dubas

Because they don't have the same agent.
 
Dubas made Matthews and Marner among the highest paid players in the NHL (without even getting maximum term) despite the fact that they had not accomplished anything beyond the regular season. It shouldn't come as a surprise that Dubas expected no less in his own contract negotiations.

This sense of entitlement that exists within the organization has to be exorcized at all costs.
Don’t forget he gave them all the money up front too, which was a supposed advantage we had in negotiations. No term, top dollar, all up front. At least now watching him play poker with his own contract I understand why he was so bad at it…
 
Chris Johnston, James Mirtle, Jonas Siegel, the Dangle Corp. are all generally Kyle leaning media.

Ex-management and player media types like Kypreos, Stellick, MacLean, Futa tend not to be.
That says a lot. Personally, I give more credence to the opinions of former NHL players and executives.
 
How do you know if it's true? There's nothing tangible said other than "trades were blocked that could have made the team better". That is vague as hell and really doesn't say anything. Was it the Fleury and Hagel for Knies trade that was blocked by Shanahan? Maybe Shanahan pushed for Foligno? Without any concrete info, it's vague tabloid bullshit.

Meanwhile Dubas made a million deadline trades? What? Nothing of what Mirtle reported lines up with the trades and signings of the last few years other than perhaps there was some tension and disagreements.

Though I will say, it's also not completely inconceivable that they may have disagreed with one another on everything. Two different people ina decision making loop are bound to have some issues they don't see eye to eye on
 
Are you unaware of an agency's job?

Their job is to get their client the best contract possible. The Maple Leafs DO NOT WANT Matthews to get the best contract possible, they want him as cheap as possible. I don't think I have to explain how even on the surface it looks completely wrong for both of them to be working for the same agency. I'll reiterate again that I'm not educated very well on this side of hockey, which is why I want to see if there's more examples around the league of this kind of thing.

the agent, from the GM's perspective, is only really to deal with legal matters/their contract. they are just sports oriented lawyers (that are not actually lawyers a lot of the time) It's not the agency's job to make kyle's performance better with the roster, or make the salary cap situation better. It's just for purposes of representation between the GM and the club he works for or will eventually work for. The agent doesn't take part in contractual negotiations for players on behalf of the GM, ever. It's purely executive level only.

there is no direct link between the two except they happen to work/play for the same team. at no point will the agent ever have to represent both the GM and player at the same time at opposite ends of the table.
 
Would it really be too much to expect that NHL hockey executives can't be represented by the same agencies as the NHL players? Would it really be so odd if there were a couple of agencies who exclusively specialize in representing management people?
 
A bunch of GMs just said Dubas was a great GM and a great hockey mind.
Sure, they were referring to his candor and professionalism in their dealings with him over the years.

They obviously weren't commenting on the underhanded negotiating tactics he displayed the past few days.
 
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