Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[thewave]

Money is a piece of the puzzle, but its mot the only one.

The question will be does Matthews trust in the next GM and his plan moving forward. He may not even be a part of it, but thats unlikely


Lol so f***ing lame

What is lame is why it's always about trust. Does Matthews TRUST, no he is going to make his contract demand and the team will counter a couple times and if they don't get it done he will be traded before the NMC.

It's not like there is another way this goes.

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

Feels very much like ownership moreso than Shanny here. That presser didn't really follow enough logic for me to think there wasn't significant pressure after Monday from ownership to move on.

Friedman said the telecoms don't like surprises, Monday's presser + the last minute financial ask was probably enough to seal Kyle's fate with ownership.

I don't doubt there was issues power structure wise, but if Shanny had a contract offer to him Sunday that they had been working on since March, I just find it really hard to believe what transpired from Monday-Friday would be enough to change your mind in this very specific window/offseason where Matthews needs to be signed.

Kyle pushed leverage he thought he had, but he had every right to try after the organization made him sit all year without an extension (bad decision IMO). Now they're stuck finding a new GM, new vision, and selling Matthews on it in a month over paying Kyle 1.5-2M more without a cap. Lose Auston and you'll lose significantly more than 1.5-2M a year IMO, so its a gamble for MLSE/ownership. We'll see if they're right.

Just don't hire a dinosaur who is going to sign our version of the Jack Campbell contracts, setting back the franchise.

 

[Stephen]

Money is a piece of the puzzle, but its mot the only one.

The question will be does Matthews trust in the next GM and his plan moving forward. He may not even be a part of it, but thats unlikely

That would be a question for Auston Matthews, no doubt. No one can anticipate what an own recruitment would look like.

I guess my question from a non Dubas guy is why would all organizational loyalties go up to Dubas and then there's no further personal relationships?

 

[WTFMAN99]

From Mirtle's article today, Dubas and Shanny were at odds for a while. Shanny had blocked a few transactions for several reasons Dubas wanted to make which caused frustration in the management group, and Shanny had suggested a few moves that Dubas didn't agree with. Apparently the moves that weren't made could have helped the Leafs advance further in the playoffs. Shanny usually won those battles because of his stature.
Some others might also leave with Dubas gone, while others could stay on, but Mirtle mentions people like Ryan Hardy, Darryl Metcalf and Hayley Wickenheiser who could be at risk. There is no guarantee if even Pridham will stay.
Says Treliving is a front runner for the job, but says Doug Armstrong is a candidate too if Blues allow it.
On coaching, Joel Q is keen to the idea of Toronto, but it seems unlikely Leafs will make a controversial hiring right now. Keefe is likely to be let go, and seems Leafs will hire an experienced high profile coach.

How the hell could anyone know that though? Mirtle is Dubas's boy so there is an agenda there.

If those "big 4" guys no show 2nd round, what else are you bringing in that could change that?

 

[the real Fox mulder]

From Mirtle's article today, Dubas and Shanny were at odds for a while. Shanny had blocked a few transactions for several reasons Dubas wanted to make which caused frustration in the management group, and Shanny had suggested a few moves that Dubas didn't agree with. Apparently the moves that weren't made could have helped the Leafs advance further in the playoffs. Shanny usually won those battles because of his stature.
Some others might also leave with Dubas gone, while others could stay on, but Mirtle mentions people like Ryan Hardy, Darryl Metcalf and Hayley Wickenheiser who could be at risk. There is no guarantee if even Pridham will stay.
Says Treliving is a front runner for the job, but says Doug Armstrong is a candidate too if Blues allow it.
On coaching, Joel Q is keen to the idea of Toronto, but it seems unlikely Leafs will make a controversial hiring right now. Keefe is likely to be let go, and seems Leafs will hire an experienced high profile coach.

Is Doug Armstrong still the GM of St.Louis and under contract?

 

[OVO16]

Even though I do understand what went down yesterday and how it went down isn't a good look for the franchise and it raises eyebrows for sure.......I still think we're all overreacting.

Dubas inherited Marner/Mathews/Nylander and clearly his moves weren't good enough to get us over the playoff hump. The kadri trade was a disaster

I don't think this is as big of a loss as we think truly. I guess we'll find out

 

[Larcos_Unal]

When the realization hits that the Florida Panthers just caused your storied franchise to go full 'brain shambles' mode and implode from within.

 

[rumman]

What was the conflict of interest?

Agency representing both player and agent, Dubas should have recused himself from negotiations……..

 

[OVO16]

A lot of GMs can have immediate success with the Core we already had when Dubas took over. At the end f the day, Dubas has failed to build the right roster around this core.

Has dubas made good trades? Absolutely

Do the leafs need a new direction and vision while their core is still in their prime? I dont see why not. We gave dubas 6 years to show us some level of playoff success

 

[conFABulator]

Here's a few thoughts.

Whether you want Dubas gone or not, and whether you like Shanny or not I don't see how anyone can say this was well handled. It was poorly handled.

We are now a team with a GM and the organization wanted to retain the outgoing GM and could not. This has all been made public and we look disorganized.

We obviously don't have a plan B because we thought plan A was going to work. So, now we have a short window to make a decision on our coach and prepare for an important off-season. I feel we need to move swiftly now and that is not good when you don't have a plan?

First of all, on Dubas. It's easy to say he didn't win a cup so he failed. It is also very true that about 28 current GMs haven't won a cup and most of them have not come close to the job Dubas has done with the Leafs. They have been one of the best teams in the NHL the past five years, they have the longest playoff qualifying streak in the league, they have a very good cap situation, their core is still young and in their primes, they have a first round pick, and lots of prospect depth including two or three guys knocking on the door next year. These are all facts.

But, here we are. What would I do?

I would ask Shanny to take on a more involved and active role in hockey operations and I would support him with Pridham and Wickenheiser and others. This team needs a culture shock. This is Shanny's team. It is his job to do. We can't hire another GM and not succeed, so he might as well roll up his sleeves and do the dirty work. He will have a great supporting (management) cast and he has been left in a good place by Dubas.

I would change the coach. We have to. I don't know where we go. Even if we promote Carbery and hire some experience around him I think that is at worse a lateral move and the change itself could bring the desired impact.

On ice?

- Trade Murray and our first for the highest pick we can get (Mrazek move)

- Trade Nylander. I am not hating on Willy, I just think he is the most movable of the core four. Think Parayko.

- Sign a F to fill some of Nylander gap. Think Bertuzzi. ($5.5M x 4), maybe Barbashev if we can't get Bert.

- Resign O'Rielly ($4M x 4), Schenn, Kampf and Acciari.

- Re-sign Matthews ($13M x 8)

This is about the most change I think we can make without taking steps backwards. Our window is now...not steps back. We have to change the wheels on this thing while it is going one hundred miles an hour.

Shanny as the visible hockey leader is the most significant of the moves outlined above.

 

[justashadowof]

Mirtle hints at moves that weren't made holding the team back. The shamelessness of it is eye catching. Dubas spent a significant amount of futures over the past few seasons fortifying the team for the playoffs. If anything it appears that Dubas may have been blocked from parlaying the team's best prospects to get another major addition. One more major addition probably wouldn't have done anything about the star forwards no show in round 2.

 

[Jozay]

Is Doug Armstrong still the GM of St.Louis and under contract?

Yeah. I guess the assumption would be he doesnt want to be there anymore.

 

[thewave]

I was just thinking, perhaps the decision to let Dubas go came from higher up. They didn't like all the nonsense drama at the presser. Very possible that it was more of a demand and that's why Shanny looked uncomfortable laying it out.

Just mentioning because there was that talk about the owners being divided on an issue.

 

[TMLegend]

Mirtle hints at moves that weren't made holding the team back. The shamelessness of it is eye catching. Dubas spent a significant amount of futures over the past few seasons fortifying the team for the playoffs. If anything it appears that Dubas may have been blocked from parlaying the team's best prospects to get another major addition. One more major addition probably wouldn't have done anything about the star forwards no show in round 2.

Exactly. I remember it being speculated it was Shanahan that blocked the trade that would of sent Knies+1st+Mrazek for Hagel and MAF.

 

[therealkoho]

Dubas thought he was negotiating with himself.

And by himself

 

[Mess]

Shanahan had the most cerebral Irish rage reaction ever.

In front of the camera.

Behind the scenes as the days were passing I can only imagine his blood was boiling.

You can't get from here sign this contract extension to you're done here without someone lighting a fuse.

 

[rumman]

Mirtle hints at moves that weren't made holding the team back. The shamelessness of it is eye catching. Dubas spent a significant amount of futures over the past few seasons fortifying the team for the playoffs. If anything it appears that Dubas may have been blocked from parlaying the team's best prospects to get another major addition. One more major addition probably wouldn't have done anything about the star forwards no show in round 2.

You had to know the pro Dubas media spin doctoring would go into overdrive after yesterday. They have to be careful, I think there’s a very good reason Shanahan mentioned that email from Dubas more than once, I’ll bet the last thing a unemployed GM wants is for the contents of that to become public fodder………

 

[93LEAFS]

And Dubas leaking to Mirtle his grievances has started already. He's always been a snake oil salesman who knows how to play the media. Can't believe how many people bought into his mystique.

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

Exactly. I remember it being speculated it was Shanahan that blocked the trade that would of sent Knies+1st+Mrazek for Hagel and MAF.

I don't remember anyone saying that - only that the Leafs said no then got mad about it being leaked.

I'm willing to hear actual reported examples if insiders come out with them, but otherwise its a silly excercise to partake in which will ultimately divulge to what side you're on

If you're a fan of Dubas - Shanny made the Foligno trade

If you're a fan of Shanny - Dubas would have traded Knies

all nonsense to speculate on at this point

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Mirtle hints at moves that weren't made holding the team back. The shamelessness of it is eye catching. Dubas spent a significant amount of futures over the past few seasons fortifying the team for the playoffs. If anything it appears that Dubas may have been blocked from parlaying the team's best prospects to get another major addition. One more major addition probably wouldn't have done anything about the star forwards no show in round 2.

If Shanny was the one person in the front office making sure our future wasn't being completely nuked for the last 2 years I would say that isn't exactly a bad thing.

 

[SprDaVE]

From Mirtle's article today, Dubas and Shanny were at odds for a while. Shanny had blocked a few transactions for several reasons Dubas wanted to make which caused frustration in the management group, and Shanny had suggested a few moves that Dubas didn't agree with. Apparently the moves that weren't made could have helped the Leafs advance further in the playoffs. Shanny usually won those battles because of his stature.
Some others might also leave with Dubas gone, while others could stay on, but Mirtle mentions people like Ryan Hardy, Darryl Metcalf and Hayley Wickenheiser who could be at risk. There is no guarantee if even Pridham will stay.
Says Treliving is a front runner for the job, but says Doug Armstrong is a candidate too if Blues allow it.
On coaching, Joel Q is keen to the idea of Toronto, but it seems unlikely Leafs will make a controversial hiring right now. Keefe is likely to be let go, and seems Leafs will hire an experienced high profile coach.

That was a very good article. Mirtle seems a lot less upset by the GM change compared to Siegel and staying a lot more neutral about his reporting. Siegel is just writing from an angle that seems overly dramatic. With that said, I don't believe for a second that Dubas was completely blocked by Shanahan... Everyone with a damn brain can see through the bullshit Mirtle is pushing.

I really like that Doug Armstrong is likely a target. Hard to hate him as the guy to take over and make critical decisions. I'm very skeptical he'd take a job under Shanahan and I'm skeptical he's being forced out of St-Louis.

It is a little frustrating reading and seeing Dubas being overly stubborn about his players and even coach. I don't blame him but this will be his biggest downfall.

 

[93LEAFS]

In front of the camera.

Behind the scenes as the days were passing I can only imagine his blood was boiling.

You can't get from here sign this contract extension to you're done here without someone lighting a fuse.

He basically had an agreed upon deal, then postured for more money when he's really done nothing. Can't wait to see the disaster he is when he's another teams GM and doesn't have infinite resources to rely upon.

 

[thewave]

You had to know the pro Dubas media spin doctoring would go into overdrive after yesterday. They have to be careful, I think there’s a very good reason Shanahan mentioned that email from Dubas more than once, I’ll bet the last thing a unemployed GM wants is for the contents of that to become public fodder………

It really was a shut up and leave quietly type of presser tbh.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Button on TSN has been pushing George McPhee from Vegas a lot in the last day. I would be over the moon with prying him out of Vegas. Armstrong from the Blues would be good too. Trelieving would be straight up awful.

 

[Warden of the North]

Well said, and especially damning when you factor in that Dubas was an absolute nobody when Shanahan picked up the phone and reached out TO HIM. If it wasn't for Shanny, Dubas would still be in the Soo...little shit got too big for his britches and paid the price.





skip to 1:02 for a great Doug Maclean interview

Real Kyper and Bourne

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne talk all things Maple Leafs and NHL! Airing live on Sportsnet 590 The FAN weekdays from 4-6 PM ET.

www.sportsnet.ca

This is most likely incorrect. Dubas was getting discussion in the podcast sphere prior to being hired by the Leafs. I can remember hearing about him I think as early as 2012/2013 ish on the Marek vs Wyshynski podcast as someone who was going to come in during the next wave of young GMs with these new fangled analytics.