Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[CapspaceKiller]

Slept on it, still laughing at Dubas. Scumbag lied to his boss' face and got caught.

If I'm running an organization, no way do I bring him in

 

[Dayjobdave]

Not only that my friend but actions speak louder than words.

The Leafs are a fortune 500 company and its an honour and a privilege to be the GM. One of the prized sports jobs on the planet.

So apparently Shanahan and Dubas agent's had be working on finalizing an extension all but there for the signing prior to Leafs season ending press conference.

Strike #1 - Then Dubas decides he is going to air his dirty laundry in public complaining about the pressure and stress that would come with any high level job in a major market. Thus creating some doubt he can handle it, and the job isn't too big for him,

Strike #2 - Then he tells everyone he wants to talk to family and take some time to think about if he wants to continue being the manager of the Leafs. Leaf Ownership/Shanny are not going to beg him to stay and run the show and based on Dubas comments is not 100% committed to lead the management group. They would have expected an "I'm all IN, I love my job and appreciate the opportunity to continue what we started here and I won't be happy until we win a Championship" yada yada yada. Instead they get a "let me sleep on it and get back to you when I'm ready if I want to take your job offer to stay or not".

Strike #3- Then after going silent for a few days thinking about his future, he then sends Shanahan his latest contract demands $$ and authority request through his agent, which Shanny clarified as a short call and significant gap in what had been previously been discussed. Then sends an email and can't even be bothered to talk to Shanny in person.. I can just imagine Shanny thinking " You arrogant entitled little shit, you want to essential blackmail MLSE to pay you much more than they were willing/offering and you're worth". Displaying a you need me, more than I need you attitude, forgetting its Ownership not management that calls the shots here, and who are in full control of offering the job. The final straw that broke the camels back.

So Shanahan has seen and heard enough, gets into his car and drives down the Dubas office and say's "You're OUT !!!!.

View attachment 710689

About 5 years ago, I spotted Shanahan in a Starbucks on University, just up from the arena. He was sitting at a high top talking to someone I didn’t recognize. I couldn’t hear them but the way he was leaning in and his facial expression as he was locked on that person was incredibly passionate.

I remember thinking “this is one fiery, serious dude.” This was not someone you would want to be on the wrong side of.

Looks like that Shanahan is back. Good.

 

[Canadian Finn]

The point about full autonomy fascinates me, although Dubas reportedly wanting that and a salary equivalent to Shanahan's can arguably suggest that the now former GM might have actually been in search of the role/power of President here. I'd be curious to know if Dubas felt he was worthy of a role greater than the one he had held previously, or if he felt that he actually was (or would have been) overruled by Shanahan without that level of power?

I'd be curious to know why Dubas felt he was worth of a greater role (or pay).

 

[Mess]

The only reason we are here is because of Dubas’ hubris.

Dubas went from having an extension waiting to sign on Sunday to pissing off the organization and out the door by the next Friday.

No good team President would want to swap out his GM at such a crucial time with so many franchise potential irons in the fire in the next 6 weeks and scramble for a new replacement. So that speaks volumes to how much Dubas pride and arrogance self sabatoged his own carrer in less than a week.

 

[PromisedLand]

Tell me, you don't find it a bit concerning, someone who will be fairly brand new to the organization has to potentially navigate new contracts for our superstar centerman or navigate franchise changing trades in about 6 weeks? All while trying to figure out how exactly they want this team to play and sign/trade for those players?

This isn't an ideal time to be without a GM.

Dubas set up us to fail. Now that he is no longer a GM I am much happy about it than concerned.

Shanny said in his presser that Pridham has good relationships with player agents and that Pridham would be working on their contracts.

As I've said it before if Matthews wants anything more than 12 AAV then I'd rather trade him than give him 14 to 15 AAV that has been rumoured Matthews would be seeking. Committing that much cap to Matthews is not a good idea to begin with IMO; because others can easily use that to negotiate with the Leafs. And I don't have to prove that to you. Marner's agent used Matthews' 11.6 contract to negotiate Marner's contract.

We can't be paying ridiculous amount of AAV to handful of players especially when these players do not even show up in the playoffs.

If the goal is to win the CUP; then you navigate accordingly. If it takes another scorched earth and rebuild then so be it.

First step towards the CUP was to get rid of Dubas, which we've done. And that IMO is a cause for celebration!

 

[The Management]

The most concerning aspect about this to me is that Shanahan and his principals were clearly looking to work toward an extension with Dubas, notwithstanding the playoff elimination, only to change direction on a dime following that press conference and whatever counterproposal was submitted (though I think this was the icing on the cake and probably not the lynchpin behind Shanahan's decision).

I can definitely see why Shanahan would have been concerned with some of Kyle's remarks, but it's not clear to me that he said anything egregious enough to warrant such a monumental shift of direction. Sort of feels like the course of this franchise was decided on the whim of a man who has been as much a part of this unsuccessful front office group as anyone else. Troubling, when some critical contract and roster decisions lie ahead between now and July 1st.

I'm hoping this all works out. I don't think anyone is irreplaceable. But I don't particularly like the way this played out for either side if I'm being honest, and I'm concerned the wellbeing of the team is what's going to get caught in the middle.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

You're misinterperating. It's not that his family has a bad experience in Toronto. On the contrary. It's the fact he never had a job contract or offer all year and the lack of job security was worrying for his him and his family. Also, his family was only brought up because a reporter ask.

NHL GMs and coaches are hired to be fired. Job security? LOL.

 

[notbias]

Let's say Dubas had inherited (players rated just after the Leafs' picks) Laine, Hanifin, Nick Richie, Jared Cowan and Matt Dumba. What kind of team would Kyle Dubas have created by now? This current team was built on the good decisions of previous regimes. It's that simple.

In this thread are the players playoff chokers or superstars?

 

[DarkKnight]

What’s this team Shanny stuff, how can anyone side with Dubas here? Such projection lol.

 

[notbias]

Dubas went from having an extension waiting to sign on Sunday to pissing off the organization and out the door by the next Friday.

No good team President would want to swap out his GM at such a crucial time with so many franchise potential irons in the fire in the next 6 weeks and scramble for a new replacement. So that speaks volumes to how much Dubas pride and arrogance self sabatoged his own carrer in less than a week.

We don't have a good team president, so you are partially right here.

 

[Canadian Finn]

only thing that is going to make this off season more entertaining is if the Leafs hire what the children of the fanbase think is a boomer.

entertainment value of HF boards will be soaring higher and higher.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Nobody is content with that. I'm fine with the change and it's fair. It wasn't good enough. It can get better, no doubt.

Shanahan has shown since taking over that he can identify good people to manage the team with a good clear vision. I hope the mandate doesn't get muddled and ruined. It's hard to be a consistent playoff team in this league and it won't take much to really downgrade out of the playoffs. Whoever takes over has one of the worst jobs in the NHL this off-season.

I agree with pretty much all of this minus it's a worst job.

It's a great job and you're going to be busy off the hop with a Matthews extension, potentially a Nylander trade or signing and then looking at one of JT / Nylander / Marner as trade options. An incoming GM isn't going to be married to the idea of not pushing JT hard on that NMC, which to me is the guy you gotta move.

Alternatively and this is something you need to know going in, if Matthews isn't re-signing, you know you're basically trading out bodies and doing a quick retool / rebuild, you should get some great returns on these players.

Maybe in 2-3 years your back in that early cycle of making the playoffs and hoping for deep runs again, if you get a franchise defenseman and can convince McDavid to join, maybe they can go all the way?

Unless you're Doctor Strange though, we can't possibly fathom all of the possibilities and outcomes of what is coming.

The big thing you said is, change is fair and it's probably time, we can do better than what we've shown to date and now the incoming GM needs to hit it out of the park to go to the next level.

 

[Gallagbi]

In this thread are the players playoff chokers or superstars?

This is a weird narrative i havent quite figured out over the past while.

Somehow our GM wasted the prime years of a bunch of born losers destined to fail because they dont have what it takes.

 

[Brown Dog]

I suspect that if Snoop was owner, Dubas would have been gone last yr or the year before

This is a take I never imagined reading!

 

[thewave]

Dubas set up us to fail. Now that he is no longer a GM I am much happy about it than concerned.

Same

Shanny said in his presser that Pridham has good relationships with player agents and that Pridham would be working on their contracts.

Bet he becomes acting GM

As I've said it before if Matthews wants anything more than 12 AAV then I'd rather trade him than give him 14 to 15 AAV that has been rumoured Matthews would be seeking. Committing that much cap to Matthews is not a good idea to begin with IMO; because others can easily use that to negotiate with the Leafs. And I don't have to prove that to you. Marner's agent used Matthews' 11.6 contract to negotiate Marner's contract.

Think it will be 13 AAV for Matthews. Not saying he is worth the full 13. If someone opens the wallet and says hey we will take the player and contract and give you __________ _____ and ____ sounds good to me as well.

We can't be paying ridiculous amount of AAV to handful of players especially when these players do not even show up in the playoffs.

Can not win the cup paying the big bucks, never works out anymore. There should be a fairness committee established to identify why highly taxed Canadian teams are not competitive. Perhaps they need to come up with a new solution to cap.

If the goal is to win the CUP; then you navigate accordingly. If it takes another scorched earth and rebuild then so be it.

If they extend Matthews and trade Marner, they may get a few more cracks at it especially with Woll. If they can trade JT and Marner that would be the ideal.

First step towards the CUP was to get rid of Dubas, which we've done. And that IMO is a cause for celebration!

Agree with that. He and Keefe were not getting us there.

 

[PromisedLand]

Yes Dubas was handed a core that could make the playoffs easily, but that same core for 7 seasons couldn't achieve much playoff success that people are now complaining about and wanting to be changed because they're too soft, not gritty enough, can't score when they need it most etc. So which is it? Was Dubas handed a great core and if so why do Leafs fans complain year after year that some or all of them underperformed and aren't good enough and one or more need to be moved?

That's what Dubas has worked with for the past 7 seasons. A talented core that had weaknesses. Dubas tried to address the weaknesses in the team to support the core and so far it has resulted in relative little playoff success outside of 1 playoff round. Is it the fault of Dubas or is it the fault of the Leafs top players for not stepping up and playing better?



What ridiculous contracts did Dubas hand out to players in his time as GM here? Fine just say for the moment that Matthews and Marner are 'overpaid'. Who else did he overpay? Nylander has turned into a good contract. Tavares isn't bad by free agent standards. Rielly could be bad if he can't play like he did in the playoffs consistently, but if he can play nearly as well then its a good contract.

Mrazek is a bad one. Holl? Not the best, but far from the worst and it was relatively short term. Richie? Not great, but not the worst too. Short term contract for him to prove himself and it didn't work out. So help me out which of his other signings fall into the 'ridiculous' category?

Which contract did Dubas hand out that comes even close to Nikita Zaitzev or Matt Martin levels of bad that was given by Lou?

Making the playoffs and then playing well in the playoffs are 2 different things.

Dubas had plenty of opportunity to right the ship and change team composition and cap allocation by trading a core piece but he didn't. On the contrary he gave out ridiculous contracts to the players and went dumpster diving. Spending additional assets in the trade because Leafs had no cap space so that the trading team and a third team would retain on cap.

That is one embarrassing GM IMO.

Dubas walked into the best situation. I can't recall any GM in history of this sport walking into the situation that Dubas walked into and then went on to fail spectacularly.

A good leader recognizes whats working and whats not working and executes plans accordingly to improve the situation. Dubas didn't do any of it. Look at the amount of picks Dubas has traded away just for third team contract retentions.

Dubas IMO has been the worst GM in the history of the NHL if you apply context as to the situation he walked in and what he did with it.

I am a MAPLE LEAFS fan; and when someone's actions ruins things for the club; I will always raise my voice. FINALLY the incompetence is not here. And its a cause for celebration. We have just taken a first step towards righting the ship.

It is about the "LOGO" not who the GM is or who the players are. I have zero emotional attachment to gm, coach or players. If you are not working towards improving the club and not respecting the logo then you are not wanted here. Period!

When the name on the back has more meaning than the logo on the front (which was entire Dubas' tenure btw); that franchise is not going to achieve anything.

It is the best day Leafs Nation IMO moving forward it is nothing but progress!!!

 

[Stephen]

Tell me, you don't find it a bit concerning, someone who will be fairly brand new to the organization has to potentially navigate new contracts for our superstar centerman or navigate franchise changing trades in about 6 weeks? All while trying to figure out how exactly they want this team to play and sign/trade for those players?

This isn't an ideal time to be without a GM.

Speaking from a position of pure ignorance on how contracts are negotiated, how hard can it be to negotiate the broad framework Matthews contract when you're dealing which such round numbers and pre-defined parameters?

Green is team preference, Yellow is riskier, Red is not preferred.

DO YOU WANT TO BE A TORONTO MAPLE LEAF (Choose 1)

Yes
No

CATEGORY ONE (Choose 1):

1 Year
2 Years
3 Years
4 Years
5 Years
6 Years
7 Years
8 Years

CATEGOY TWO (Choose 1):

$11 million
$12 million
$13 million
$14 million
$15 million

CATEGORY THREE (Choose 1)"

$100,000
$200,000
$300,000
$400,000
$500,000
$600,000
$700,000
$800,000
$900,000

CATEGORY FOUR NMC (Select Yes/No)

Yes
No

CATEGORY FIVE NTC (Select Yes/No)

(Only fill out if "No" Selected for Category Four)

Yes
No

Bonus Structure

(Let's Discuss over 30 minute Microsoft Teams).

I don't know what sports executives spend weeks at a time trying to figure out, but it's not exactly like you're dealing with that many parameters.

 

[Mess]

About 5 years ago, I spotted Shanahan in a Starbucks on University, just up from the arena. He was sitting at a high top talking to someone I didn’t recognize. I couldn’t hear them but the way he was leaning in and his facial expression as he was locked on that person was incredibly passionate.

I remember thinking “this is one fiery, serious dude.” This was not someone you would want to be on the wrong side of.

Looks like that Shanahan is back. Good.

The Shanahan meter when dealing with Dubas actions this past week,

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Not only that my friend but actions speak louder than words.

The Leafs are a fortune 500 company and its an honour and a privilege to be the GM. One of the prized sports jobs on the planet.

So apparently Shanahan and Dubas agent's had be working on finalizing an extension all but there for the signing prior to Leafs season ending press conference.

Strike #1 - Then Dubas decides he is going to air his dirty laundry in public complaining about the pressure and stress that would come with any high level job in a major market. Thus creating some doubt he can handle it, and the job isn't too big for him,

Strike #2 - Then he tells everyone he wants to talk to family and take some time to think about if he wants to continue being the manager of the Leafs. Leaf Ownership/Shanny are not going to beg him to stay and run the show and based on Dubas comments is not 100% committed to lead the management group. They would have expected an "I'm all IN, I love my job and appreciate the opportunity to continue what we started here and I won't be happy until we win a Championship" yada yada yada. Instead they get a "let me sleep on it and get back to you when I'm ready if I want to take your job offer to stay or not".

Strike #3- Then after going silent for a few days thinking about his future, he then sends Shanahan his latest contract demands $$ and authority request through his agent, which Shanny clarified as a short call and significant gap in what had been previously been discussed. Then sends an email and can't even be bothered to talk to Shanny in person.. I can just imagine Shanny thinking " You arrogant entitled little shit, you want to essential blackmail MLSE to pay you much more than they were willing/offering and you're worth". Displaying a you need me, more than I need you attitude, forgetting its Ownership not management that calls the shots here, and who are in full control of offering the job. The final straw that broke the camels back.

So Shanahan has seen and heard enough, gets into his car and drives down the Dubas office and say's "You're OUT !!!!.

View attachment 710689

Well said, and especially damning when you factor in that Dubas was an absolute nobody when Shanahan picked up the phone and reached out TO HIM. If it wasn't for Shanny, Dubas would still be in the Soo...little shit got too big for his britches and paid the price.





skip to 1:02 for a great Doug Maclean interview

Real Kyper and Bourne

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne talk all things Maple Leafs and NHL! Airing live on Sportsnet 590 The FAN weekdays from 4-6 PM ET.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[justashadowof]

In this thread are the players playoff chokers or superstars?

Playoff qualifiers in all threads.

 

[DarkKnight]

Dubas probably thought Shanny was going to fly to Europe to make sure he was doing okay.

 

[Gallagbi]

Speaking from a position of pure ignorance on how contracts are negotiated, how hard can it be to negotiate the broad framework Matthews contract when you're dealing which such round numbers and pre-defined parameters?

Money is a piece of the puzzle, but its not the only one.

The question will be does Matthews trust in the next GM and his plan moving forward. He may not even be a part of it, but thats unlikely

The Shanahan meter when dealing with Dubas actions this past week,

View attachment 710703

Lol so f***ing lame

 

[DarkKnight]

Well said, and especially damning when you factor in that Dubas was an absolute nobody when Shanahan picked up the phone and reached out TO HIM. If it wasn't for Shanny, Dubas would still be in the Soo...little shit got too big for his britches and paid the price.





skip to 1:02 for a great Doug Maclean interview

Real Kyper and Bourne

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne talk all things Maple Leafs and NHL! Airing live on Sportsnet 590 The FAN weekdays from 4-6 PM ET.

www.sportsnet.ca

MacLean yesterday said Dubas contacted him because he thought he was going to get canned in the Soo and wasn’t sure how to handle it. Never heard that before.

 

[justashadowof]

The Shanahan meter when dealing with Dubas actions this past week,

View attachment 710703

Shanahan had the most cerebral Irish rage reaction ever.

 

[stickty111]

From Mirtle's article today, Dubas and Shanny were at odds for a while. Shanny had blocked a few transactions for several reasons Dubas wanted to make which caused frustration in the management group, and Shanny had suggested a few moves that Dubas didn't agree with. Apparently the moves that weren't made could have helped the Leafs advance further in the playoffs. Shanny usually won those battles because of his stature.
Some others might also leave with Dubas gone, while others could stay on, but Mirtle mentions people like Ryan Hardy, Darryl Metcalf and Hayley Wickenheiser who could be at risk. There is no guarantee if even Pridham will stay.
Says Treliving is a front runner for the job, but says Doug Armstrong is a candidate too if Blues allow it.
On coaching, Joel Q is keen to the idea of Toronto, but it seems unlikely Leafs will make a controversial hiring right now. Keefe is likely to be let go, and seems Leafs will hire an experienced high profile coach.