Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[GoonieFace]

And the guy who reactionarily fired someone based on a change of heart (not money) and will now start thinking/searching for a replacement when we have 6 weeks until we need to make organization-altering decisions is?

Shanahan comes off so bad in this to me, and Dubas comes off bad to me too, but how anyone can be comfortable with this guy steering the ship is beyond me, he comes off as completely clueless.

The only thing that worries me about Shanahan is that he was actually willing to extend this failure. I guess we should all be thanking Dubas for being a complete moron and ridding ourselves of him

 

[andora]

If Dubas comes out and says I never asked for more money than what Shanahan and my agent discussed. That aside there were terms in the contract that restricted my ability to be the GM of the Leafs, which was a major sticking point, and a hurdle Shanahan couldn't clear.

I think something like that would be significant.

Which now would be a surprise to no one.. nor would it spin well

Shanahan answered a question flat out that it wasnt just money.. shanahan did very well laying the groundwork for if dubas retorts anything it just creates more questions for dubas to answer. Of course it becomes easier to lay said groundwork when someone acts like a twit.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Any realist can see that things are now very uncertain with any number of directions things may go including some very bad directions and some much better directions. This city and franchise remains a highly desirable destination, that hasn't changed overnight. What is gone is the comfort and security of the Dubas regime. The Dubas regime delivered good regular season results. This team wasn't going to win a Stanley Cup as it was going. The star players are too comfortable in loss. The defense and the goaltending and the support talent is ever changing and would have changed again, more than ever this summer, under Dubas anyways. I welcome this uncertainty because it gives me a glimmer of hope that something will get salvaged from the legit Championship potential this team had circa 2017 before the fall part of the rise/fall cycle sets in.

Talking to some friends, they're all worried about the change...and I am just ask "Why?" - Yes Dubas did some good things and if we had won a cup, I would be more outwardly frustrated that he's gone but Dubas hasn't had that much success here.

Yes, we could get an absolute idiot in here running things and that will suck but hoping that the 8th-10th time is the charm with this stupid salary model of throwing all the $$ at 4 forwards would also be stupid and was stupid 2 years ago.

We've wasted time.

I just want to see what is next.

 

[thewave]

And the guy who reactionarily fired someone based on a change of heart (not money) and will now start thinking/searching for a replacement when we have 6 weeks until we need to make organization-altering decisions is?

Shanahan comes off so bad in this to me, and Dubas comes off bad to me too, but how anyone can be comfortable with this guy steering the ship is beyond me, he comes off as completely clueless.

Ya it's going to be so hard to bring in Hunter or Pridham. Hunter was already essentially given the job at one point. Shanny could also elect to do those final moves himself if he wanted. The way you guys are talking about it is like you have no idea how an organization is run.

Corporate chain of command has continuity in mind. Pridham is able to step in and act if Dubas were to fall ill for instance. The vision is essentially established and the wheels in motion. Dubas only had final say but that is debatable regardless with Shanny above him.

It’s funny how the Dubas contract expiration coincides with all the NMC kicking in and the soon to be UFA status.
Then as the clock is ticking, you are suddenly the only option at the last minute to deal with all this. For a price of course. Nice. Except the other guy said see ya anyway.

It seems almost orchestrated. I can't prove it but very suspect.

 

[ShaneFalco]

What a dick move by Dubss and I'm sure others around the league took notice.
Just as greedy as his former players

 

[notbias]

Ya it's going to be so hard to bring in Hunter or Pridham. Hunter was already essentially given the job at one point. Shanny could also elect to do those final moves himself if he wanted. The way you guys are talking about it is like you have no idea how an organization is run.

Corporate chain of command has continuity in mind. Pridham is able to step in and act if Dubas were to fall ill for instance. The vision is essentially established and the wheels in motion. Dubas only had final say but that is debatable regardless with Shanny above him.

Mark "the draft guru" Hunter should not be anywhere close to this organization.

More executives with no experience as GM doing big things for the team, I am sure everyone here will be happy.

 

[3blizzard4]

The more I think about it the more I’m convinced it’s not what we being told.

It can’t be that Shanny was surprised the family stuff Dubas brought up during the presser that made Shanny think “hey this might not be our guy”.

I mean Shanny and the board were ready to sign Dubas just last week. Multiple times.

Was it really the money demands? This is the org that is still paying Babcock for sitting at home the last four years.

I think something was said in Dubas’s email to Shanny that made him drive to his office the next day and fire him.

 

[Trapper]

Ya it's going to be so hard to bring in Hunter or Pridham. Hunter was already essentially given the job at one point. Shanny could also elect to do those final moves himself if he wanted. The way you guys are talking about it is like you have no idea how an organization is run.

Corporate chain of command has continuity in mind. Pridham is able to step in and act if Dubas were to fall ill for instance. The vision is essentially established and the wheels in motion. Dubas only had final say but that is debatable regardless with Shanny above him.



It seems almost orchestrated. I can't prove it but very suspect.

We might never know the actual story, but IMO from day 1 (for the players) it was all about the money. And now ironically at the end (for the GM) it might have been all about the money.
An organization fosters the culture. It was a long way from Shanahan saying it might not be for everyone to where we ended up.

 

[thewave]

Mark "the draft guru" Hunter should not be anywhere close to this organization.

More executives with no experience as GM doing big things for the team, I am sure everyone here will be happy.

He drafted us Woll, that's the first step to creating a good organization. Looks like we have a great foundation now. Normally you try to build from the net on out.

I find your opinions to be irrational and extreme.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Dubas portrayed himself as unstable, unpredictable and in the end disloyal. Th trust with Shanny and the board had been fatally broken - impossible to repair when that happens

 

[notbias]

He drafted us Woll

And who else?

You need 20 skates, not 1.

Outside of the first round, he was terrible.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

He seemed like he was eager to be believed. I was expecting more matter of fact.

Very much agree, Shanny looks desperate and I think like an idiot as well, especially since he thought it was a great idea to re-up Dubas PRE-PLAYOFFS(?!?!)

They both look unprofessional and like they didn’t know what they hell they’re doing, which they clearly don’t.

I cannot believe he’s survived this whole debacle and that Keefe is back until further notice.

Can Shanahan not assess and judge based purely on results? He’s been here 9 years and can’t make the call on firing Keefe when you see the kind of non-compete from this team? It’s a joke

 

[justashadowof]

It's pretty clear that it is a conflict of interest to negotiate a contract on behalf of an organization with another entity that also represents yourself. Whether it's legally a conflict of interest is another matter. Perhaps in the instances where an NHL GM is set to negotiate a contract with a client represented by his own agency the NHL GM steps asides and leaves the negotiations and decision making to someone else in the organization like the club president, I wouldn't know.

 

[thewave]

The more I think about it the more I’m convinced it’s not what we being told.

Agreed

It can’t be that Shanny was surprised the family stuff Dubas brought up during the presser that made Shanny think “hey this might not be our guy”.

Correct

I mean Shanny and the board were ready to sign Dubas just last week. Multiple times.

That's what they tell us

Was it really the money demands? This is the org that is still paying Babcock for sitting at home the last four years.

For rather pathetic reason I may add.

I think something was said in Dubas’s email to Shanny that made him drive to his office the next day and fire him.

Perhaps, or it was just convenient way of letting the guy go without taking heat. Opportunity knocked as they say.

 

[GoonieFace]

The more I think about it the more I’m convinced it’s not what we being told.

It can’t be that Shanny was surprised the family stuff Dubas brought up during the presser that made Shanny think “hey this might not be our guy”.

I mean Shanny and the board were ready to sign Dubas just last week. Multiple times.

Was it really the money demands? This is the org that is still paying Babcock for sitting at home the last four years.

I think something was said in Dubas’s email to Shanny that made him drive to his office the next day and fire him.

Im guessing it wasn’t the money either, and we will probably never know the real truth

 

[SprDaVE]

Talking to some friends, they're all worried about the change...and I am just ask "Why?" - Yes Dubas did some good things and if we had won a cup, I would be more outwardly frustrated that he's gone but Dubas hasn't had that much success here.

Yes, we could get an absolute idiot in here running things and that will suck but hoping that the 8th-10th time is the charm with this stupid salary model of throwing all the $$ at 4 forwards would also be stupid and was stupid 2 years ago.

We've wasted time.

I just want to see what is next.

I think it's from the eras before Shanahan took over as President that makes people nervous. Everything from then to now felt like there was a seamless and while there are no cups to show for it, there was a vision and a clear line towards that goal.

Right now uncertainty brings up those feelings of pre-Shanahan where it was dumb decision after dumb decision, trading picks while finishing almost dead last, signing terrible bloated contracts to bad players, drafting in shambles, etc. I don't want to talk about those times because I think we all know what they were.

Like I get it... no cups or even playoff series success counts for something and Dubas failed. A new person in charge doesn't mean it will go sideways and for the most part, it might have been time. But it can get so much worse and I don't think people understand how bad this team can be managed into the basement again.

 

[the real Fox mulder]

I think this was one of the reason why Shanahan had to let go of Dubas.

 

[thewave]

And who else?

You need 20 skates, not 1.

Outside of the first round, he was terrible.

Didn't he take Marner as well? I mean, I was leaning another way and now most people want to ship him out but that doesn't make me think Hunter is terrible at drafts.

I think you need to approach this situation with more logic and reason.

 

[TheDoldrums]

I really think they should fire Shanahan as well. At this point what has he done to earn the right to pick the next guy? His involvement could stop us from getting the best candidates who would demand full autonomy. If we're going in a new direction, fully commit to that.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think it's from the eras before Shanahan took over as President that makes people nervous. Everything from then to now felt seemless and while there aren no cups to show for it, there was a vision and a clear line towards that goal.

Right now uncertainty brings up those feelings of pre-Shanahan where it was dumb decision after dumb decision, trading picks while finishing almost dead last, drafting in shambles, etc.

Like I get it... no cups or even playoff series success counts and Dubas failed. But it can get so much worse and I don't think people understand how bad this team can be managed into the basement again.

I feel like the version we got coming out of that 06 lock out through 2016 was probably one of the worst eras since Ballard.

Trying to force yourself to be competitive when in reality you really need to bottom out, get a superstar or to and hitch yourself to that rocket all the way to the moon. You just need the right superstars.

I agree, it could get bad....it might get better but how content would we be simply making the playoffs every year and getting bounced in round 1 or sometimes 2?

 

[justashadowof]

Who cares at this point. Dubas put us in a bind with the NMC's all going active at the same time. It was a ticking time bomb and his own contract expiration at the same time could be perceived as an additional time bomb.

If the players and Dubas all want to unify and make it about them and money they can GTFOH. Just trade them and be done with it. Shanahan trusted a now proven manipulative young man that screwed us essentially. The amazing thing is that most people in the city seem to think Dubas was working in the teams best interests which is total BS.

I believe that's only the case because that's what they've been told to believe. That messaging has expired. These people will be told what to believe next. If the messaging is that the new management is great, these "most people" will be right behind the new management. If the messaging is that the new management are big meanies, these "most people" will hate the new management.

 

[thewave]

I really think they should fire Shanahan as well. At this point what has he done to earn the right to pick the next guy? His involvement could stop us from getting the best candidates who would demand full autonomy. If we're going in a new direction, fully commit to that.

I do as well but we probably have to deal with the player contracts beforehand. Nobody up top is going to even elude to that at this time, they are well aware of the trainwreck happening below.

 

[notbias]

Didn't he take Marner as well? I mean, I was leaning another way and now most people want to ship him out but that doesn't make me think Hunter is terrible at drafts.

I think you need to approach this situation with more logic and reason.

I believe these were the drafts he was involved with.

That looks bad to me.

Spoiler

[/spolier]

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Inside the chaos and uncertainty Brendan Shanahan has brought upon the Maple Leafs

The decision to not bring Kyle Dubas back as general manager should cast an even brighter spotlight on Brendan Shanahan.

theathletic.com

Good article breaking it all down, and why ultimately everyone involved in the situation look like clowns. Just over a month until July 1st, and sooner for the draft without a gm. Going to be a shit show summer.

 

[Dreakmur]

I really think they should fire Shanahan as well. At this point what has he done to earn the right to pick the next guy? His involvement could stop us from getting the best candidates who would demand full autonomy. If we're going in a new direction, fully commit to that.

It depends what you think he’s supposed to do. The organization is undoubtedly in much better shape now than when he took over. They have invested in and created much better scouting and development programs. They have expanded their analytics department. Even if you think hiring Dubas was a huge mistake, that’s really his first misstep, right?