Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[Menzinger]

Conflict of interest much? Nobody from MLSE told Dubas "hey you cant have the same agent as Matthews."?

Edit: this was worse than the Muskoka Five. Dubas has the same agent as Matthews. Dubas and Keefe are joined at the hip.

Coach cant say anything to Matthews. Matthews will tell agent, agent will send angry face emoji to Dubas.

It's fairly common for execs who have agents to have overlap with players in their orgs. There are only so many agencies who handle hockey players. It would be impossible to run a team properly if forced to avoid overlap. This isn't unique to Dubas'

 

[All Mod Cons]

Wow, Shanny is really pissed with the way Kyle has gone about this. He absolutely buried him in the presser. Unheard of that someone would go into that much detail. There's probably more that was in the email/contract ask that he isn't saying.

Shanny handled himself well in the pressser I thought. Dubas really overplayed whatever leverage he thought he had. Contracts really ain't his thing.

Obviously we've not heard from Kyle about this, but he comes across very badly. He seems to be forever backstabbing people and trying to trample over people to reach the top.

Shanny must've felt he'd put his neck on the line often enough for Kyle, and couldn't believe how Kyle went about repaying that. He also suggested Kyle not do the presser until everything was sorted, to keep it in house.

Kyle said, f*** you and f*** the Leafs.

 

[thewave]

It's fairly common for execs who have agents to have overlap with players in their orgs. There are only so many agencies who handle hockey players. It would be impossible to run a team properly if forced to avoid overlap. This isn't unique to Dubas'

It would be my policy unofficially to not hire anyone with such overlap. Simple as that. It's pretty obvious to me that that agency is currently operating as a mafia of sorts and are working every media angle etc to get favorable outcomes. Taking full spectrum dominance into the world of professional sports representation.

As for the NHL with the betting, I would say the whole league is now operating under the Law of the Jungle. It's a great big giant shitshow and I imagine within a decade the whole thing will need restructuring.

 

[WTFMAN99]

What a wild few weeks it has been

Jubilation with the 1st round win series finally

Heart break with the 2nd round loss...and anger

Now just confusion about where the franchise is headed

 

[Goose]

Would like to see Dubas’ Pikachu face when the tactics that worked on him to overpay for contracts didn’t work on Shanny.

 

[1specter]

What a wild few weeks it has been

Jubilation with the 1st round win series finally

Heart break with the 2nd round loss...and anger

Now just confusion about where the franchise is headed

I want off this ride

 

[Yall are crazy]

Yall wanted the team to be blown up so it's gonna be blown up. Just like with Florida. f*** around and find out. The leaf fans never learn.

 

[Amadeus]

I disagree. The intention it seems was not to blow this up. It just led to that in the offseason.

 

[Yall are crazy]

Why? This market had die heart fans. Everyone makes the leafs market to be villians but reality is in all sports the major markets are like this. Dallas and philly are way worse in the NFL.

Lol yall are the reason ppl put you on the no trade list XD yall are the reason you haven't won the cup or the second+ round. Never learn and will continue to suffer while your door and revolving players and staff find happiness and success on other teams.

 

[DarkKnight]

Having slept on it, Dubas still looks like a complete fool that misread the entire situation.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I want off this ride

I just want a cup man lol.

I thought Dubas earned an extension but played the his hand very poorly.

Shanahan should have been covertly interviewing candidates once he started to doubt he would bring back Dubas.

Running this back would be the definition of insanity and we're not losing some mastermind, any GM could have fluked a series win in 5 years.

If Matthews re-signs, you make the team as competitive as you can, definitely needs some major changes.

If Matthews is not re-signing, you're liquidating all the top assets and trying to rebuild / retool on the fly.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Toronto Maple Leafs News | The Star

The best Toronto Maple Leafs coverage from Star columnists and reporters. Get your leafs news, scores, game coverage and more from thestar.com.

www.thestar.com

What’s discomforting, though, is that Shanahan didn’t fire Dubas because the team he built didn’t win enough: one playoff series victory in five seasons. Shanahan fired Dubas, at least in the version of events the president unfurled in a fascinating blow-by-blow press conference late Friday afternoon, because Dubas asked for too much.

Not only too much money — although Dubas’s decision to have his agent call Shanahan and demand a better financial package on Thursday, this after Shanahan said he thought the deal was getting close to the finish line, was clearly a key link in the chain of events that led to Dubas’s ousting after nine years as a club employee. Shanahan said he was prepared to offer a contract extension as far back as March, and figured they had the framework of a deal heading into this week. And then Dubas, in Shanahan’s telling, got greedy.

To be clear, the late ask for more money wasn’t the only thing that nixed the deal. But it was an unexpected turn of events. Unexpected because Dubas, the weak-kneed negotiator known for caving to his best players’ every demand at the contract table, suddenly found the stomach for hardball when it was his money on the line. Unexpected because, from Shanahan’s perspective, it made a deal that felt close suddenly feel miles away.

Finding more money is never a problem for the folks at Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment. So it wasn’t just about Dubas asking for more money. There’s every indication it was about autonomy, too — Dubas’s push for more power within the organization, which wasn’t met kindly by higher-ups.

But it was ultimately about Dubas asking Shanahan to take too big a leap of faith that Dubas was the still the right person for the job. General manager of the Leafs ought to be one of the most coveted gigs in pro sports. And yet Dubas spent Monday publicly enumerating the negatives of the gig, specifically the pressure and the strain the job put on his family, and how he’d need to take some time to consider whether or not he even wanted to return.

Shanahan said he’d urged Dubas not to speak with the media at the annual post-mortem in which he revealed those feelings. Given the lack of clarity around Dubas’s future, Shanahan declined to take his usual seat beside Dubas at the annual affair.

And while Shanahan was clear in saying he was empathetic with Dubas’s plight — “It’s hard on all our families … (but) it’s the job we choose” — he also said he was surprised by the revelation.

“There was a dramatic shift in my thinking,” Shanahan said. “As Kyle expressed, he might not want to be our GM. And I had to take that very seriously … There was a real possibility I would be looking for someone else.”

The events got more sordid from there. Dubas’s emotional press conference came Monday. Shanahan said the two didn’t even talk on Tuesday. When they convened Wednesday, Shanahan said Dubas left him with “more questions than answers.” Then came Thursday, when Dubas’s agent called to demand more cash and Dubas emailed to express his desire to be the GM.

Talk about overplaying your hand while mixing your messages. (Was Dubas’s problem too much familial strain or not enough money?) Come Friday morning, Shanahan found himself driving to the Leafs’ Etobicoke practice rink to tell Dubas his services were no longer required.

In thanking Dubas for his contribution to the organization, Shanahan was nothing but respectful. But make no mistake, this parting was far from amicable. Shanahan called Dubas a “fantastic employee.” Not long ago, he might have called him a like-minded colleague and friend. The coldness between the two now runs deep.

................

It’ll be four years ago in November that Shanahan flew to Arizona to knife Mike Babcock, the super-coach he’d doggedly recruited to preside over the dawn the Matthews-Marner era. If current head coach Sheldon Keefe isn’t behind the bench when next season begins — and as tied as Keefe is to Dubas, he’s as good as gone — the Leafs will hire the fifth coach of Shanahan’s tenure. The next GM will be Shanahan’s fourth overall, and third hire.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Dubas right before f***ing around with Shanny:

 

[TheDoldrums]

Dubas right before f***ing around with Shanny:

Tbh I think that goes both ways. I'm not sure if Shanahan anticipated how negatively this would be received throughout the organization

 

[GoonieFace]

Douggie's not a headcase, he's just a loner/introvert.

And maybe it says something about a GM where guys keep wanting out. Fox, Tkachuk, Johnny Hockey, etc.

I think it’s more that players don’t want to play in Calgary

What's interesting to me is it was reported by Dreger that Matthews will just march into MLSE and put down a take it or leave it demand and it seems like the GM was ready to make the same play. Whether that's true or not, I think it is time for the organization to change the perception that it's just a push over ATM machine. The sausage making process is probably going to be gross, but it does look like the organization needs to restore some dignity in terms of having standards, being respected in negotiations, and recognized as a special place to play and work for. I just don't want to see my team held hostage like that.

If pigman and stick boy wanna try to strongarm the team, than send them both packing

 

[justashadowof]

What a wild few weeks it has been

Jubilation with the 1st round win series finally

Heart break with the 2nd round loss...and anger

Now just confusion about where the franchise is headed

Any realist can see that things are now very uncertain with any number of directions things may go including some very bad directions and some much better directions. This city and franchise remains a highly desirable destination, that hasn't changed overnight. What is gone is the comfort and security of the Dubas regime. The Dubas regime delivered good regular season results. This team wasn't going to win a Stanley Cup as it was going. The star players are too comfortable in loss. The defense and the goaltending and the support talent is ever changing and would have changed again, more than ever this summer, under Dubas anyways. I welcome this uncertainty because it gives me a glimmer of hope that something will get salvaged from the legit Championship potential this team had circa 2017 before the fall part of the rise/fall cycle sets in.

 

[budzz]

The more I think about this, Shanny was absolutely correct. Dubas sideswiped him. When Dubas held his press conference, most of us and the hockey world pretty much assumed the board was still considering their options, as there was alot to consider. Dubas coming out and saying kinda "we'll see what happens" felt like things were still up in the air. Now we find out that decision was already made weeks before, and Shanny TOLD Dubas they wanted to move forward with him. Then Dubas out of the blue says "I need to discuss this with my family, I may want to take a step back instead??" At the 11th hour? Totally blindsided Shanny, who thought they had the basics of a deal in place already. He was basically saying "I'm not sure if my heart is in it" then at the last second "OK, if you give me more money maybe". I am a Manager for a large company, and if a major hire played that game with me, we would DEFINITELY walk away and say this isn't the right fit. If you are in hockey as a profession, and you're not sure if you want what is potentially one of the most coveted and potentially rewarding positions in the entire sport, this job ain't for you. Move along thanks for coming out.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Tbh I think that goes both ways. I'm not sure if Shanahan anticipated how negatively this would be received throughout the organization

Fair point, I also see that as a positive. If you're here for money or power feel free to go and try to find a better job.

Those who stay will do so for the franchise/crest, while being compensated at fairmarket value.

Dubas won nothing at demanded to be paid like the best GM in the league, good riddance. Shanny does not bend over at the negotiating table like Dubas does.

 

[notbias]

It's fairly common for execs who have agents to have overlap with players in their orgs. There are only so many agencies who handle hockey players. It would be impossible to run a team properly if forced to avoid overlap. This isn't unique to Dubas'

For reference, Drew Doughty is #26 of all agencies for active contracts represented since he represented himself.

There are not a ton of big agencies.

NHL Agents | Puckpedia

 

[GoonieFace]

Fair point, I also see that as a positive. If you're here for money or power feel free to go and try to find a better job.

Those who stay will do so for the franchise/crest, while being compensated at fairmarket value.

Dubas won nothing at demanded to be paid like the best GM in the league, good riddance. Shanny does not bend over at the negotiating table like Dubas does.

Well said. People are acting like we need to replace the Gretzky of GM’s. Dubas is a fraud

 

[thewave]

Any realist can see that things are now very uncertain with any number of directions things may go including some very bad directions and some much better directions. This city and franchise remains a highly desirable destination, that hasn't changed overnight. What is gone is the comfort and security of the Dubas regime. The Dubas regime delivered good regular season results. This team wasn't going to win a Stanley Cup as it was going. The star players are too comfortable in loss. The defense and the goaltending and the support talent is ever changing and would have changed again, more than ever this summer, under Dubas anyways. I welcome this uncertainty because it gives me a glimmer of hope that something will get salvaged from the legit Championship potential this team had circa 2017 before the fall part of the rise/fall cycle sets in.

Who cares at this point. Dubas put us in a bind with the NMC's all going active at the same time. It was a ticking time bomb and his own contract expiration at the same time could be perceived as an additional time bomb.

If the players and Dubas all want to unify and make it about them and money they can GTFOH. Just trade them and be done with it. Shanahan trusted a now proven manipulative young man that screwed us essentially. The amazing thing is that most people in the city seem to think Dubas was working in the teams best interests which is total BS.

 

[93LEAFS]

If we are going by hindsight. The Boyle trade to make the playoffs and the Marleau signing the following summer right away sped up the rebuild.
Might also cause Hunter to draft more overagers due to needing players to come in and contribute quicker.
The JT’s signing was the accumulation of that.

However, if AM, MM, Willie and JT actually raised their level like Reilly in the playoffs, Dubas will still be GM, the core will be intact and we might have already won a Cup or two.

At the end of the day, Dubas did a lot of things right but betted on the wrong horses.

His most memorable move was a massive loss. Traded Kadri with the main piece we got back being redundent and essentially a bottom pairing D-man for us. Barrie's only use was on the PP, when we were already a top PP in the league the year prior with Rielly. For a guy who talks a big game about analytics he chased marginal improvement in an area we ended up worse in.

 

[notbias]

Having slept on it, Dubas still looks like a complete fool that misread the entire situation.

And the guy who reactionarily fired someone based on a change of heart (not money) and will now start thinking/searching for a replacement when we have 6 weeks until we need to make organization-altering decisions is?

Shanahan comes off so bad in this to me, and Dubas comes off bad to me too, but how anyone can be comfortable with this guy steering the ship is beyond me, he comes off as completely clueless.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

Yall wanted the team to be blown up so it's gonna be blown up. Just like with Florida. f*** around and find out. The leaf fans never learn.

Did we make Kyle act a fool and out himself as a god damn moron?

 

[Trapper]

Who cares at this point. Dubas put us in a bind with the NMC's all going active at the same time. It was a ticking time bomb and his own contract expiration at the same time could be perceived as an additional time bomb.

If the players and Dubas all want to unify and make it about them and money they can GTFOH. Just trade them and be done with it. Shanahan trusted a now proven manipulative young man that screwed us essentially. The amazing thing is that most people in the city seem to think Dubas was working in the teams best interests which is total BS.

It’s funny how the Dubas contract expiration coincides with all the NMC kicking in and the soon to be UFA status.
Then as the clock is ticking, you are suddenly the only option at the last minute to deal with all this. For a price of course. Nice. Except the other guy said see ya anyway.