Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[SprDaVE]

I feel like the version we got coming out of that 06 lock out through 2016 was probably one of the worst eras since Ballard.

Trying to force yourself to be competitive when in reality you really need to bottom out, get a superstar or to and hitch yourself to that rocket all the way to the moon. You just need the right superstars.

I agree, it could get bad....it might get better but how content would we be simply making the playoffs every year and getting bounced in round 1 or sometimes 2?

Nobody is content with that. I'm fine with the change and it's fair. It wasn't good enough. It can get better, no doubt.

Shanahan has shown since taking over that he can identify good people to manage the team with a good clear vision. I hope the mandate doesn't get muddled and ruined. It's hard to be a consistent playoff team in this league and it won't take much to really downgrade out of the playoffs. Whoever takes over has one of the worst jobs in the NHL this off-season.

 

[thewave]

I believe these were the drafts he was involved with.

That looks bad to me.

Spoiler

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[/spolier]

Sure, not the best. I am more leaning Pridham though for the job. I think he is likely the way to go. Hunter should be around as an AGM if he likes. I believe it was eluded to that Hunter didn't like Dubas very much.

If they just want to navigate these contracts and then clean house, I am ok with that too.

 

[Mess]

Why was an unsettled GM so willing to get in front of the media? A little bit unprofessional in hindsight.

Not only that my friend but actions speak louder than words.

The Leafs are a fortune 500 company and its an honour and a privilege to be the GM. One of the prized sports jobs on the planet.

So apparently Shanahan and Dubas agent's had been working on finalizing an extension all but there for the signing prior to Leafs season ending press conference.

Strike #1 - Then Dubas decides he is going to air his dirty laundry in public complaining about the pressure and stress that would come with any high level job in a major market. Thus creating some doubt he can handle it, and the job isn't too big for him,

Strike #2 - Then he tells everyone he wants to talk to family and take some time to think about IF he wants to continue being the manager of the Leafs. Leaf Ownership/Shanny are not going to beg him to stay and run the show and based on Dubas own comments is not 100% committed to lead the management group forward. They would have expected an "I'm all IN, I love my job and appreciate the opportunity to continue what we started here and I won't be happy until we win a Championship" yada yada yada. Instead they get a "let me sleep on it and get back to you when I'm ready if I want to take your job offer to stay or not".

Strike #3- Then after going silent for a few days thinking about his future, he then sends Shanahan his latest contract demands $$ and authority request through his agent, which Shanny clarified as a short call and significant gap in what had been previously been discussed. Then Dubas sends an email and can't even be bothered to talk to Shanny in person about the job.. I can just imagine Shanny thinking " You arrogant entitled little shit, you want to essential blackmail MLSE to pay you much more than they were willing/offering and you're worth". Displaying a you need me, more than I need you attitude, forgetting its Ownership not management that calls the shots here, and who are in full control of offering the job. The final straw that broke the camels back.

So Shanahan has seen and heard enough, gets into his car and drives down the Dubas office and say's "You're OUT !!!!.

 

[Stand Witness]

Ill summarize my thoughts again:

I think Dubas is a great GM. He is going to run another hockey operation and do very well, especially from a big picture with an organization. Dubas really improved over his tenure here too.

That being said, this organization needed change. It was not acceptable to keep the status quo. At the end of the day, Shanahan put this current regime in place, so if you had confidence in the current regime then keep in mind the same decision maker is putting in the next one.

I am going to wait before overreacting about the next GM. I would lean towards experienced, but there are very few good options out there.

My biggest fear is a new GM comes in and makes no change to the core. To me, that is unnacceptable.

I hope Shanahan is laying down a new era in control and negotiations. Everyone in the organization has to answer the following question: Are you 100% in? If not, time to move.

The next thing Shanahan has to do is establish that the Toronto Maple Leafs will be firm on contracts. It is an honour to play here and we aren’t paying you more to be here.

I think Shanahan proved both of those matter today. 100% buy in and you aren’t getting money thrown at you.

 

[notbias]

Sure, not the best. I am more leaning Pridham though for the job. I think he is likely the way to go. Hunter should be around as an AGM if he likes. I believe it was eluded to that Hunter didn't like Dubas very much.

Hunter was terrible, Pridham is fine, but I'd like Tulsky.

I don't care if Hunter is the best GM, unless they can keep him away from the draft, keep him away from the organization.

 

[Stephen]

Wow, Shanny is really pissed with the way Kyle has gone about this. He absolutely buried him in the presser. Unheard of that someone would go into that much detail. There's probably more that was in the email/contract ask that he isn't saying.

Shanny handled himself well in the pressser I thought. Dubas really overplayed whatever leverage he thought he had. Contracts really ain't his thing.

Obviously we've not heard from Kyle about this, but he comes across very badly. He seems to be forever backstabbing people and trying to trample over people to reach the top.

Shanny must've felt he'd put his neck on the line often enough for Kyle, and couldn't believe how Kyle went about repaying that. He also suggested Kyle not do the presser until everything was sorted, to keep it in house.

Kyle said, f*** you and f*** the Leafs.

When they write the tell all book about this era of the Leafs, I'll be dying to read about what seemed like a Dubas powerplay from the outside.

Fans have thrown around the idea of more autonomy in the past, and that's well and good as a concept... but what happens with the junior partner between the President and GM assumes full hockey control? Does it exist in other organizations? Does it completely lock out the board and president from oversight? Does it isolate the president, and is the play a move on the presidency? What final say does the GM not have right now that's important to gain? These are things I'm just spit balling on, but it's not necessarily about the hockey, but more about the job.

The other thing here is optics. There's a President and GM partnership across the hall in Masai Ujiri and Bobby Webster. A recent championship winning partnership. Does Bobby Webster come across like Kyle Dubas? No, he's aligned with Masai and we don't hear about his family and pressures and it's all business.

 

[geo25]

If Chris Johnston doesn't ask that question on Monday Dubas might still be the GM.

Actually insane how that press conference changed so much.

Dubas & CJ hVe great repor. Maybe Dubas asked him to bring it up???

 

[justashadowof]

Dubas portrayed himself as unstable, unpredictable and in the end disloyal. Th trust with Shanny and the board had been fatally broken - impossible to repair when that happens

While I may have chosen the side of Team Shanny in this soap opera, Shanahan did facilitate that scene by keeping Dubas on an expiring contract through this season. It was Shanahan who brought this to the surface. We may never have seen it under other circumstnaces although there have been many hints to this nature before this past week: lobbying to get Babcock fired to Shanahan in an animated fashion, smugly celebrating Petan's lone career goal with the Leafs, the public tantrums, the repeated references to feelings in respect to discussing team personal.

 

[egd27]

I think you forget what the Leafs were like before they had a plethora of elite talent, and how hard it is to acquire it.

Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Kadri and Rielly were all here prior to Dubas becoming GM. He added Tavares, but that move has both it's pros and cons, and in hindsight, perhaps more cons.

And aside from Kadri, they're all still here.

 

[justashadowof]

Dubas & CJ hVe great repor. Maybe Dubas asked him to bring it up???

The leading line of CJ's question:

"Recognizing what you said about there being a family and business aspect... "

 

[thewave]

Ill summarize my thoughts again:

I think Dubas is a great GM. He is going to run another hockey operation and do very well, especially from a big picture with an organization. Dubas really improved over his tenure here too.

I don't think he did a great job. We were hardly successful and his coaching choice was a complete failure tbh.

That being said, this organization needed change. It was not acceptable to keep the status quo. At the end of the day, Shanahan put this current regime in place, so if you had confidence in the current regime then keep in mind the same decision maker is putting in the next one.

It's getting that change, thank goodness.

I am going to wait before overreacting about the next GM. I would lean towards experienced, but there are very few good options out there.

Pridham is garnering the interest from around the league and is completely aware of everything going on at this time.

My biggest fear is a new GM comes in and makes no change to the core. To me, that is unnacceptable.

There will be core changes no matter what. The NMCs will ensure that.

I hope Shanahan is laying down a new era in control and negotiations. Everyone in the organization has to answer the following question: Are you 100% in? If not, time to move.

You can only establish that without a NMC being enforced so they have 6 weeks to resolve it.

The next thing Shanahan has to do is establish that the Toronto Maple Leafs will be firm on contracts. It is an honour to play here and we aren’t paying you more to be here.

We get to see that on July 1st. If not trades are made prior the assumption would be that the players signed in advance.

I think Shanahan proved both of those matter today. 100% buy in and you aren’t getting money thrown at you.

Should never have been another way.

 

[DarkKnight]

The only reason we are here is because of Dubas’ hubris.

 

[Canadian Finn]

You're misinterperating. It's not that his family has a bad experience in Toronto. On the contrary. It's the fact he never had a job contract or offer all year and the lack of job security was worrying for his him and his family. Also, his family was only brought up because a reporter ask.

the dubites feel he's the next coming of god, and so does dubbie .... i can't imagine someone so in demand having any concern around job security.....no worrying for him and/or his family.

he just misplayed his cards....again.

 

[CincoHolio]

We might never know the actual story, but IMO from day 1 (for the players) it was all about the money. And now ironically at the end (for the GM) it might have been all about the money.
An organization fosters the culture. It was a long way from Shanahan saying it might not be for everyone to where we ended up.

Funny how so many people seem to forget Shanny was the only one with enough moxie to say, prior to the signing of the 3 kids, that they need to keep the team salary structure in mind if they wanted to ice a competitive team. In fact at the time, Shanahan was ridiculed more than he was lauded for sending a message that probably needed to be said. Dubas, the guy he had trusted to see out that vision, failed in spectacular fashion to deliver on that message.

Dubas it seems, was no better than any of Matthews, Marner and to a lesser extent, Nylander and in fact appears to be cut from the same cloth. All came in with a heightened sense of entitlement. All 4 took advantage of an organization starved for success and used it as leverage to fill their own pockets.

I'm no Shanahan apologist. It's a bed of his own making, and frankly should have started to give people the boot at the very least, right after the MTL series. Having said that, it is all too clear now that Dubas was nothing more than an egotistical, arrogant and entitled neophyte who was in over his head. He duped many of us in the end.

I just want a GM who isn't going to allow the spotlight of being in Toronto get to his head and just focus on the job at hand. Yes...Lou Lam - blah blah blah...maybe, maybe not we'll never know now.

 

[ShaneFalco]

While I may have chosen the side of Team Shanny in this soap opera, Shanahan did facilitate that scene by keeping Dubas on an expiring contract through this season. It was Shanahan who brought this to the surface. We may never have seen it under other circumstnaces although there have been many hints to this nature before this past week: lobbying to get Babcock fired to Shanahan in an animated fashion, smugly celebrating Petan's lone career goal with the Leafs, the public tantrums, the repeated references to feelings in respect to discussing team personal.

Oh for sure - he wasn't extended last summer but the results this year somehow earned him an extension offer? But Dubas goes public on how tough it's been and he may need to step away, shit I'd shift gears on him too. Especially if a contract framework was in place and then Dubas demands more
Shit show

 

[GoonieFace]

Why is everyone worried about the draft, we have 3 picks

 

[Trapper]

The only reason we are here is because of Dubas’ hubris.

For all the people mortified, Dubas was offered a contract.
Today, Shanahan is still here and Dubas is not.

 

[thewave]

Why is everyone worried about the draft, we have 3 picks

And this list is in the safe. With Pridham looking it over and ready to follow through with what they decided on.

 

[Buds17]

I really think they should fire Shanahan as well. At this point what has he done to earn the right to pick the next guy? His involvement could stop us from getting the best candidates who would demand full autonomy. If we're going in a new direction, fully commit to that.

The point about full autonomy fascinates me, although Dubas reportedly wanting that and a salary equivalent to Shanahan's can arguably suggest that the now former GM might have actually been in search of the role/power of President here. I'd be curious to know if Dubas felt he was worthy of a role greater than the one he had held previously, or if he felt that he actually was (or would have been) overruled by Shanahan without that level of power?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I agree. But I would’ve changed the head coach, not the GM.

More substantive change than just the coach is required. Come on man you know that.

 

[Stephen]

While I may have chosen the side of Team Shanny in this soap opera, Shanahan did facilitate that scene by keeping Dubas on an expiring contract through this season. It was Shanahan who brought this to the surface. We may never have seen it under other circumstnaces although there have been many hints to this nature before this past week: lobbying to get Babcock fired to Shanahan in an animated fashion, smugly celebrating Petan's lone career goal with the Leafs, the public tantrums, the repeated references to feelings in respect to discussing team personal.

Sure. And Dubas created all the contractual UFA, NMC landmines the Core 4 possess, which created the feeling of doomsday that now need to be cleared.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I wonder why Matthews was handed everything after his ELC.

The end of the Leafs as we knew them, as perennial playoff chokers? Good.

The only thing CJ's worried about is his access as an insider to the next GM.

 

[justashadowof]

Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Kadri and Rielly were all here prior to Dubas becoming GM. He added Tavares, but that move has both it's pros and cons, and in hindsight, perhaps more cons.

And aside from Kadri, they're all still here.

Let's say Dubas had inherited (players rated just after the Leafs' picks) Laine, Hanifin, Nick Richie, Jared Cowan and Matt Dumba. What kind of team would Kyle Dubas have created by now? This current team was built on the good decisions of previous regimes. It's that simple.

 

[Trapper]

And this list is in the safe. With Pridham looking it over and ready to follow through with what they decided on.

The safe is probably empty. It’s just a cracker with some peanut butter on it.

 

[Arzak]

I love how Dubas supporters predict doom now. If it happens Kyle is a direct result as we'll be paying for his pathetic attempt at GMing for years.

No GM in the history of this league inherited a better team - players/assets wise in his first tenure.
He managed to bleed us off basically every relevant pick during his area.


The idea that we could do worse is ridiculous. He wasted Matthews, Marner picks in every way imaginable.

You let kids fire the coach - because they already know everything hence why bother with a coach that got more NHL experience> your lifetime?

He gave them all the money they wanted. He walked them right to UFA with NMC to ensure there is nothing after Kyle.



If we had no GM the last couple of years, we would be in the same situation, plus a bunch of picks and maybe just maybe those young players could grow up some balls instead of perfecting the whine.