Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas named President of Hockey Operations

[The Old Master]

Oh lol I'm fully aware of the predicament we find ourselves in, don't worry I know better than most. That said, we got one of very few candidates who have a chance to actually right the ship.

i think he can do it too. only it may take some time to get it done.

 

[Pancakes]

I was largely indifferent because I don't believe this is a contending team. I was most concerned about hanging on to our 1st rounder. At the time never considered KD would even be an option.

Feel like KD is gonna give strong consideration to trading that first rounder

 

[Ryder71]

Feel like KD is gonna give strong consideration to trading that first rounder

Doubt it, it'll be his 1st pick WITH Pittsburgh. After that who knows, we only have a 3rd from NJ until round five.

 

[pistolpete11]

I am absolutely splitting hairs, but to me, there is a hair to split here.

And to a certain extent, I am simply looking for justifications of my gut instincts about the players in the stats. My gut instinct, my limited and dumb scouting report, is Poehling is going to be one of those guys who never puts it together and that DOC has a chance of being a guy who leans into his strengths and hits a ceiling.

But I see it. Going by 5v5 p/60, DOC did 0.09 better for points - and perhaps more importantly, didn't just have a lucky streak of scoring before going quiet for the rest of his NHL time, he was regularly making plays - while Poehling dropped by 0.19. A guy with Poehling's 1.24 is a guy I don't really care whether they play, a guy with DOC's 1.57 is a guy I'm okay with seeing on L3.

And at this stage of development? I think those 60 extra games are big. 100 games is often used as the cut off as "made it". Poehling is over that, DOC isn't.

Well, as long as we are on the same page there

100 NHL games played might be the "you're an NHL'er" mark, but it's not like you have massive leaps in your play from Game 80 to Game 100 and then your progression plateaus. Look at Rust, McCann, Guentzel from Year 2 to Year 3, and on and on and on.

I would play Archibald over Poehling every day of the week based on last year. More productive per 60, better possession stats, more noticeably part of the ideal team identity. Poehling was a better PKer but that's about it.

And the identity part is important. I am sick of them throwing a bunch of talented players together and hoping they come together. I want players who fit a cohesive identity and whose strengths counterbalance other players' weaknesses. Archibald and DOC offer that. Poehling should, but it never felt like he did.

Yeah, no thanks. I'm completely over playing 30 year old career 4th line journey men over young guys because they might give you marginally better results this year. Poehling most likely will be the next Kuhnhackl, but he might be the next Rust. You don't know what you have until you give them some rope.

Oh yeah, he can skate. Although I'd have happily used Bjugstad as a comparable, as that guy could really skate.

Although I think Bjugstad is a great other example of a ton of great qualities but nothing drawing them together.


edit: And I might well be wrong. They're certainly both at the stage of their career where narratives will change very quickly. But since you asked, that's what I see.

I mean, DOC reminds me more of Bjugstad than Poehling does . Big guys who aren't really physical who are kinda OK at most things, but not really good at anything. Say what you will about Poehling, but at least he has a plus physical attribute.

 

[Pens x]

I was largely indifferent because I don't believe this is a contending team. I was most concerned about hanging on to our 1st rounder. At the time never considered KD would even be an option.

I vaguely remember you repeatedly saying Hextall deserved until the deadline 3 months ago before judging him.

What about all the other dumb **** he did before then?

 

[Ryder71]

I vaguely remember you repeatedly saying Hextall deserved until the deadline 3 months ago before judging him.

What about all the other dumb **** he did before then?

What decision do you believe he made that sunk the team? Because I just believe this team has so many flaws other than giving away our 1st (which he did not do) I don't see a decision that would miraculously change our trajectory. Same coach, same core, same philosophy epic fail.

One other thing, IF KD has a mandate to try to contend yet have an eye on the future, there's no way he should be trading 14th OA, unless it's to move up! We only have two picks until round five.

 

[Pens x]

What decision do you believe he made that sunk the team? Because I just believe this team has so many flaws other than giving away our 1st (which he did not do) I don't see a decision that would miraculously change our trajectory. Same coach, same core, same philosophy epic fail.

One other thing, IF KD has a mandate to try to contend yet have an eye on the future, there's no way he should be trading 14th OA, unless it's to move up! We only have two picks until round five.

-McCann/expansion draft
-Carter extension
-Various dumbass signings
-I know pixie will get his panties in a knot, but the Marino/Petry deals haven’t worked out
-Not doing a damn thing about our crappy goalies
-assembling an awful bottom six
-Granlund
-effing up the salary cap
-waiting too long at the deadline to move out players - all the good players were gone before he woke up
-making the team older

Do you need more? If Dubas does half of this crap, please don’t give him a 2+ year free pass…again.

And enough with this bs mandate narrative from FSG that the GM is asked to compete now and the future. They just handed the keys over to Dubas and aren’t going to interfere, except for telling him to keep Sullivan. They aren’t going to tell him how to run the team because they have no idea. There is no mandate - it’s an excuse this board conjured up to defend a brain dead GM.

 

[Freeptop]

Which is exactly what the cup winning teams had. Kuhnackl, Rowney, Wilson etc. If you sign a veteran (Cullen) you give him cheap one year deals. Not sign him for 3x2 with an NMC

Well, the '16 and '17 Cup winning teams, anyway.

The '09 Cup winning team was weird.
As in, one of Miroslav Satan or Petr Sykora on the fourth line while the other was scratched-weird.
As in, Maxime Talbot on the second line-weird.
As in, Craig Adams was actually useful-weird.

But I wouldn't use that team as a template, because making a second line of Fedotenko-Malkin-Talbot work required Evgeni Malkin in his absolute Prime

(I completely agree with your basic point, but it struck me just how different the '09 team was!)

 

[Andy99]

Did anyone ask Sullivan at the press conference if he thought the team needed to be faster, why he played Carter for 82 games? Or does FO prowess trump speed lol?

 

[Ryder71]

-McCann/expansion draft
-Carter extension
-Various dumbass signings
-I know pixie will get his panties in a knot, but the Marino/Petry deals haven’t worked out
-Not doing a damn thing about our crappy goalies
-assembling an awful bottom six
-Granlund
-effing up the salary cap
-waiting too long at the deadline to move out players - all the good players were gone before he woke up
-making the team older

Do you need more? If Dubas does half of this crap, please don’t give him a 2+ year free pass…again.

And enough with this bs mandate narrative from FSG that the GM is asked to compete now and the future. They just handed the keys over to Dubas and aren’t going to interfere, except for telling him to keep Sullivan. They aren’t going to tell him how to run the team because they have no idea. There is no mandate - it’s an excuse you conjured up to defend a GM.

I'm not defending anyone, I just don't want them to trade their 1st rounder, fortunately they didn't. As far as McCann goes, he did SHIT here! He would go long stretches without hitting the score sheet, or maybe you 4got that? Big deal. Hextall als obrought in RR, that was a good move. He's been a nice addition, don't you agree? As far as Granlund, I'm sure KD can undo that. Regardless these decisions wouldn't make a difference as far as being a cup contender.

 

[Pens x]

I'm not defending anyone, I just don't want them to trade their 1st rounder, fortunately they didn't. As far as McCann goes, he did SHIT here! He would go long stretches without hitting the score sheet, or maybe you 4got that? Big deal. Hextall als obrought in RR, that was a good move. He's been a nice addition, don't you agree? As far as Granlund, I'm sure KD can undo that. Regardless these decisions wouldn't make a difference as far as being a cup contender.

You can’t just say oh well, we wouldn’t have won a cup anyways to defend Ron Hextall. He was awful. I’ll never understand how so many couldn’t see it.

 

[Ryder71]

You can’t just say oh well, we wouldn’t have won a cup anyways to defend Ron Hextall. He was awful. I’ll never understand how so many couldn’t see it.

Well, before he got here we were pretty underwhelming for a few years there and lost to teams we were heavily favored over. and he had nothing to do with that. So, who do you blame there?

 

[Pens x]

Well, before he got here we were pretty underwhelming for a few years there and lost to teams we were heavily favored over. and he had nothing to do with that. So, who do you blame there?

Sullivan, goaltending, and JR. We haven’t had good coaching since 2018 or 19, and havent had a capable GM since JR was making huge trades in 2014-2016. Hextall was trash from day one regardless of what happened before his time.

We are righting the ship, but still have that idiot behind the bench. Hopefully, Dubas had a backbone, and I guess more importantly, FSG will allow him to fire Sully when he sucks yet again next season. He’s on his third GM; at some point they need to realize he is a problem too.

 

[Peat]

I mean, DOC reminds me more of Bjugstad than Poehling does . Big guys who aren't really physical who are kinda OK at most things, but not really good at anything. Say what you will about Poehling, but at least he has a plus physical attribute.

This is the crux of it. I have those players the other way around. I know I've seen DOC look real damn fast. I knew Poehling could skate well but am still shocked to hear he can go that fast. I've seen DOC use his size more than Poehling too.

Just have to agree to disagree there.

Well, as long as we are on the same page there

100 NHL games played might be the "you're an NHL'er" mark, but it's not like you have massive leaps in your play from Game 80 to Game 100 and then your progression plateaus. Look at Rust, McCann, Guentzel from Year 2 to Year 3, and on and on and on.

Yeah, no thanks. I'm completely over playing 30 year old career 4th line journey men over young guys because they might give you marginally better results this year. Poehling most likely will be the next Kuhnhackl, but he might be the next Rust. You don't know what you have until you give them some rope.

Guys still improve, but I feel like you can mostly tell who's going to improve and who's not. I think Jake showed very early doors he could be a star and he could learn real fast, and he just needed to be consistent and apply himself. So it was. McCann, I never saw his first 100 games, but I look at his numbers from season 3 and wonder if he's really all that different, or whether he's just the same player given better deployments that use his one great quality (his shot) better.

As for Rust, his S3 p/60 of 1.8 is better than 2 of his last 3 seasons. The idea that he could be a top 6 compliment due to playing hard, fast and smart with a little skill was absolutely established in his first 100 games. He 100% took a big step forwards with his shot that meant he got better deployments and ended up massively exceeding his ceiling as a result, but I'm really not sure he's all that different either.


As for journeymen vs young guys... I mean, I 100% want them to start taking gambles on guys with potential. They need to do it. But I 100% want them to stop trying to force round pegs into square holes and one good reason for that is very few young guys hit their potential when that's happening anyway. If that means playing a few veterans at time, so be it.


And don't get me wrong, I'm not super low on Poehling. Team wants to give him more? Sure. I'm happy to punt on the tools. But until I believe in the toolbox, I'll like guys where I see a toolbox more.

 

[Ryder71]

Sullivan, goaltending, and JR. We haven’t had good coaching since 2018 or 19, and havent had a capable GM since JR was making huge trades in 2014-2016. Hextall was trash from day one regardless of what happened before his time.

We are righting the ship, but still have that idiot behind the bench. Hopefully, Dubas had a backbone, and I guess more importantly, FSG will allow him to fire Sully when he sucks yet again next season. He’s on his third GM; at some point they need to realize he is a problem too.

See, I think the core is the problem, or one of the problems. You didn't mention that. Goaltending absolutely! Sullivan yep! But it appears as though he aint not goin anywhere. Point being we had problems prior to Hextall. He didn't help matters to be sure, but in my estimation we had a lot of problems prior to his arrival.

 

[IcedCapp]

Yea they should have. He may work out in Pitts but his time in Toronto was over. He took his shot, doubling-tripling down on his vision and it didnt work. Liked him when he arrived and really didnt like him by the time he left.

Who?


Asked?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

In his defense he was pretty solid for us. Id take him back next year.

That wasn't as much as the point. But it's like all these retreads from a GM that was in Philly or LA at the time isn't bringing them because he felt they were amazing. It's the coach. Its always been the coach in charge of his roster and the blame has never been going to the right problematic wankbucket

To comment on the Dubas hire I guess.

It is odd that he didn't just put out a statement saying he's excited. Weird for him to do a q&a on it.

f***ing millennials.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

That’s sort of my whole point. I don’t think PoHO Hank has a lot of point besides insulating yourself from failure. It’s basically making the position a GM and the GM an AGM.

What does that make the AGM? Coffee fetcher?

 

[Jobeycool]

I haven't seen an example of this...

What I mean is people are so excited and the season has not started yet.. The Free Agents and trades deals have not yet been dealt with.

 

[myleafs]

Who?


Asked?

I was responding to another poster but hey thanks for the input.

 

[Beau Knows]

What I mean is people are so excited and the season has not started yet.. The Free Agents and trades deals have not yet been dealt with.

Sure, nobody know how this will work out.

But being excited that someone else is at the helm now, isn't the same thing as "acting like the Penguins are now Cup Contenders". I think everyone knows that there's a lot of work to be done with this team, both in terms of giving them a chance in the next few years and preparing for the inevitable rebuild.

It's not going to be an easy task with the contracts on this team, the ages of many of our players and the lack of promising prospects in our system. But the hope is that the new President/GM is actually capable of managing this team well, since it became abundantly clear that the last guy couldn't.

 

[Jacob]

Why hasn’t Dubas done anything? What’s this clown even doing.

 

[Ryder71]

What does that make the AGM? Coffee fetcher?

Fearless leader of WB.

Why hasn’t Dubas done anything? What’s this clown even doing.

Probably sleeping.

 

[Gurglesons]

What does that make the AGM? Coffee fetcher?

His name is Chuck Coffee Fletcher

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Btw Madden was right and Seravali wrong. Weird times.

That is the only thing I don't like about snagging KD. That insufferable blowhard called it in March.