Kyle Dubas - - Horrible Asset Mismanagement

[al secord]

If it wasn't for the Tavares signing, i wouldn't have had to spend so much money on my Tavares jersey. I had no money left over for my Jared McCann jersey. I had to get a vietnamese knockoff.

 

[Omar23]

So we could have gotten a free 6th round pick and the Oilers would have been stuck with a bad Hyman contract for an extra year? Should have done it for sure.

Yeah it I’ll be bad by the end, seems like all FA contracts are,
GM’s can’t help themselves. But I’ll bet Hyman has a few really good seasons first. Pretty hard to in his case, but he even upgraded on center. He’s exactly what Edmonton needed, and they’ll be really good for his game. Edmonton going to be tough next year.

 

[DueDiligence]

Coleman, Foegele and McGinn are my targets. All Hyman-like players.

And how much are those players going to cost you ? With Coleman and Foegele at least $3.5 million for 3-4 years.

 

[Smif]

And how much are those players going to cost you ? With Coleman and Foegele at least $3.5 million for 3-4 years.

Coleman I could see in the mid-4's, honestly. That's around what they were offering Hyman apparently. McGinn should be in the 2-2.5 range. If you're acquiring Foegele than salary would be going the other way (Dermott, Mikheyev, etc).

My preference would be Foegele and McGinn. Hard workers, local boys, can move up and down the lineup, cheaper contracts.

 

[ToneDog]

Coleman I could see in the mid-4's, honestly. That's around what they were offering Hyman apparently. McGinn should be in the 2-2.5 range. If you're acquiring Foegele than salary would be going the other way (Dermott, Mikheyev, etc).

My preference would be Foegele and McGinn. Hard workers, local boys, can move up and down the lineup, cheaper contracts.

Our best chance was Goodrow and he didn't even bother making it to July 28th and give his hometown Leafs a shot. You'd have to give Coleman a massive overpayment for him to come here. It ain't happening. My guess is we can compete for one non-minimum UFA and once the dust settles pick up what's left at very cheap prices.

 

[egd27]

I would bet that Dubas get's picked up almost immediately by another team.

As a GM?

What's the bet?

 

[egd27]

No unfortunately, we got the guy who actually flies to Europe to make sure his RFA with zero leverage still knows we love him during a pivotal negotiation. Oh, then flies to New York to reassure his agent. Notice how nobody came to Toronto.

I'd forgotten about that. Makes the "Nylander gave in at the last minute" story even harder to believe.

 

[ToneDog]

If a Hyman is extracting this kind of money in flat cap era, what is Morgs going to get on an open market and what’s Dubas’ plan there? Will we let another asset walk for nothing, can we even afford him?

As an aside, that it all just boils down to a zero sum game with the cap, you lose a Hyman, you simply add his salary elsewhere, that’s the most simplistic bs going. You’re hard pressed to replace Hyman, the guy was a heart and soul player here, could play on a checking line, could play with the big boys, great PK, great holding a lead, great inspiration. It isn’t that easy to simply slot in another comparable at his cap hit, if only sport was that simple.

What you are saying Jumbo or Vesey can't do it for the minimum ??

Seriously, I see some serious pain this season.

 

[ToneDog]

As a GM?

What's the bet?

Careful he did not say which league either.

 

[DarkKnight]

What you are saying Jumbo or Vesey can't do it for the minimum ??

Seriously, I see some serious pain this season.

We may do well this year, but I’m also not going to be surprised if we are life or death to get the wild card. Let’s see what Dubas comes up with.

 

[egd27]

Careful he did not say which league either.

Good point.......does he have any relatives in senior GTHL positions?

Or.........

 

[Mickey Marner]

If a Hyman is extracting this kind of money in flat cap era, what is Morgs going to get on an open market and what’s Dubas’ plan there? Will we let another asset walk for nothing, can we even afford him?

As an aside, that it all just boils down to a zero sum game with the cap, you lose a Hyman, you simply add his salary elsewhere, that’s the most simplistic bs going. You’re hard pressed to replace Hyman, the guy was a heart and soul player here, could play on a checking line, could play with the big boys, great PK, great holding a lead, great inspiration. It isn’t that easy to simply slot in another comparable at his cap hit, if only sport was that simple.

I'm okay with accepting that some years the roster is going to be better than others for reasons beyond a GM's control, like Hyman pricing himself out. I'm not okay with signing Hyman to a four year deal and failing to develop any tenable replacement internally in that time span. It's simply not an acceptable conclusion. Sometimes the replacement will be better, sometimes worse, but there needs to be cheap internal reinforcements otherwise we'll just be paying free agency prices for worse alternatives.

 

[DarkKnight]

I'd forgotten about that. Makes the "Nylander gave in at the last minute" story even harder to believe.

That’s the most asinine myth going. What agent lets his client call to negotiate at the last minute? The deal was done and Willie called to accept the Leafs last offer, obviously. Again, what agent spends months hammering out a deal then at the last hour gives Willie the phone. Come on. Anyone who actually believes that is “insert disrespectful expletive here”. Sweet lord.

 

[DarkKnight]

I'm okay with accepting that some years the roster is going to be better than others for reasons beyond a GM's control, like Hyman pricing himself out. I'm not okay with signing Hyman to a four year deal and failing to develop any tenable replacement internally in that time span. It's simply not an acceptable conclusion. Sometimes the replacement will be better, sometimes worse, but there needs to be cheap internal reinforcements otherwise we'll just be paying free agency prices for worse alternatives.

The only way the Dubas top heavy model works is a constant flow of cheap young replacements coming in. Unfortunately now, we’ve gone all in and lost a lot of picks, once this class comes in this year, it dries up pretty quick and we’re left to hope we hit on a few bets.

 

[ryno23]

we talk about cap management but do you hear TB saying maybe we should move Kucherov cause we are over the cap and have Point up for a new deal next year. Nope, they keep their stars and shuffle around the bottom of the roster. They value their stars.

Ok yes our 2 stars had a rough go last year. Really it's Marner the last 2 playoffs who has really sucked with 4 assists in each playoff but more it's about his unwillingness to engage in the different level the playoffs bring. He said against CBJ he didn't realize how physical it was. MTL same thing shied away from contact and played like crap.

Matthews on the other hand has produced and this year had a rough go but think about it your wingers both stink and then MTL decided to double and triple-team you. Hard to produce 3 on 1.

Dubas or the next GM test will be if there is another 1st round flameout and Marner has his usual scared playoffs will that GM have the balls to move Marner for whatever they can get and use the cap space to better the team.

 

[Dekes For Days]

1. You're talking about a 6th round pick.
2. Cap space has a cost.
3. It's not even free agency yet. We don't even know what will happen.

There's nothing wrong with Dubas' management of assets.

 

[ToneDog]

we talk about cap management but do you hear TB saying maybe we should move Kucherov cause we are over the cap and have Point up for a new deal next year. Nope, they keep their stars and shuffle around the bottom of the roster. They value their stars.

Ok yes our 2 stars had a rough go last year. Really it's Marner the last 2 playoffs who has really sucked with 4 assists in each playoff but more it's about his unwillingness to engage in the different level the playoffs bring. He said against CBJ he didn't realize how physical it was. MTL same thing shied away from contact and played like crap.

Matthews on the other hand has produced and this year had a rough go but think about it your wingers both stink and then MTL decided to double and triple-team you. Hard to produce 3 on 1.

Dubas or the next GM test will be if there is another 1st round flameout and Marner has his usual scared playoffs will that GM have the balls to move Marner for whatever they can get and use the cap space to better the team.

They bridged a star and placed another LTIR for the season. They had 13+m in cap space to play with as a result. Imagine what we can buy with that extra cap space.

 

[Mickey Marner]

The only way the Dubas top heavy model works is a constant flow of cheap young replacements coming in. Unfortunately now, we’ve gone all in and lost a lot of picks, once this class comes in this year, it dries up pretty quick and we’re left to hope we hit on a few bets.

Auston Matthews has been the youngest full-time NHL'er on this team for five straight years. Which is absurd, but also highlights just how dry the pipeline has been. Not a single one of our draft picks since Matthews has graduated to being a full-time Leaf. I wonder how many (or few) other teams can say that.

 

[DarkKnight]

Auston Matthews has been the youngest full-time NHL'er on this team for five straight years. Which is absurd, but also highlights just how dry the pipeline has been. Not a single one of our draft picks since Matthews has graduated to being a full-time Leaf. I wonder how many (or few) other teams can say that.

And we only have a year and a half left until this market is consumed over his extension. It’s all fun times ahead.

 

[Mess]

Not since the Amateur/Entry draft originated in 1969 have the Leafs ever made so few selections as in 3 in 2021 draft. Not even Draft Schmaft or Harold Ballard years have we witnessed anything close to this.

2021 - Missing 1st, 3rd, 4th, 7th and 2022 - Missing 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th. and already dealt a 7th in 2023.

Almost all of those picks used have no retainable value as they were all spent on rental players like Nick Foligno, David Rittich, Kyle Clifford, Ben Hutton, Riley Nash, McCann etc.

Leafs went all-in on 2021 playoffs at the expense of 2 future draft classes and never even made it out of round #1.

When you have high value assets and contracts then the entry draft and cheap ELC contracts is the lifeblood of sustaining a competitive roster by offsetting those costs with young players that can contribute at high levels for low cap costs.

Mortgaging your future for the present and overestimating the team current status as a competitor is something one would file under horrible asset management.

PS. Lou Lam once traded a pair of aging vets Roman Polak and Nick Spaling for a pair of 2nds to San Jose and then re-invested those acquired picks in Brian Boyle and Tomas Plekanec to prop up playoff teams and fans still cry bloody murder to this day about how terrible that was for asset management.

 

[ryno23]

The bridged a star and placed another LTIR for the season. They had 13+m in cap space to play with as a result. Imagine what we can buy with that extra cap space.

for sure. This year TB is in a crunch but not even talking about trading their stars they will follow the Leaf model. Question will their stars carry them this year

 

[ToneDog]

for sure. This year TB is in a crunch but not even talking about trading their stars they will follow the Leaf model. Question will their stars carry them this year

IMO it is their supporting cast that will determine how well they do. I expect our core and theirs to play to their expectations. They also have a goalie who can bail them out. Soup might but not to the same magnitude.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Man this dude literally cant say anything, its unreal.

The guy opens his mouth and people whine.

Had he said the opposite, something like, "we like the looks of our team and how they stack up in our division" people would have crapped all over him saying "What!?!?! The team is nowhere near the level of Bos/TB, hes delusional, we are doomed."

He. Cant. Say. Anything. To. Appease. Everyone

True. I would have said: "Man, that's horrible grammar."

 

[Brobust]

Auston Matthews has been the youngest full-time NHL'er on this team for five straight years. Which is absurd, but also highlights just how dry the pipeline has been. Not a single one of our draft picks since Matthews has graduated to being a full-time Leaf. I wonder how many (or few) other teams can say that.

Winnipeg.

Columbus. - Texier (2017 pick)

Edmonton - Yamamoto (2017 pick)

Canucks - 2 players, both top 10 picks

Calgary - Valimaki (2017 pick) - horrible numbers, arguably should still be in the AHL.

Generally, if you're not drafting top 10, guys establish themselves at 21-22. The only pick we should be mildly worried about is Liljegren.

 

[Gary Nylund]

IMO it is their supporting cast that will determine how well they do. I expect our core and theirs to play to their expectations. They also have a goalie who can bail them out. Soup might but not to the same magnitude.

In which case were f..ked as I have no reason to expect Marner not to suck once again in the playoffs and that puts us in a big hole right off the bat.