Kyle Dubas - - Horrible Asset Mismanagement

[DarkKnight]

James Mirtle had said on a podcast recently that when he asked him (Dubas) about Reilly's last year and his pending UFA coming up...Dubas said that he is not going to allow it to be a limbo year and a distraction. Either he signs a new deal this summer or he is gone. The fact that a marginally better D-man like Seth Jones is signing for 9.5m scares the hell out of me. I was hoping Reilly would re-sign for around 6.5 over 7 or 8....now it looks like it might be in the high 7's if not 8's. I like Mo (Playoff Mo) but I would rather pay a bit more and get Dougie while getting some serious assets back if I am being honest.

Well we should be hearing more on Morgan then, since this is the time right now when the trades are going to happen. Fact it’s so quiet is disconcerting, I actually think he goes into the season with no deal or idea what we ultimately do. You do a trade at the deadline, that’s a horrible signal to your team. It’s act now or status quo and he maybe walks for nothing. If Hyman can get what’s he’s getting in a flat cap, Reilly is 8 mil all day long.

 

[Brobust]

James Mirtle had said on a podcast recently that when he asked him (Dubas) about Reilly's last year and his pending UFA coming up...Dubas said that he is not going to allow it to be a limbo year and a distraction. Either he signs a new deal this summer or he is gone. The fact that a marginally better D-man like Seth Jones is signing for 9.5m scares the hell out of me. I was hoping Reilly would re-sign for around 6.5 over 7 or 8....now it looks like it might be in the high 7's if not 8's. I like Mo (Playoff Mo) but I would rather pay a bit more and get Dougie while getting some serious assets back if I am being honest.

Rielly has always been more impactful than Jones. But Jones got paid based off reputation only. I wonder if that applies to Rielly.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Foligno got injured after the trade, and regardless of your feelings on Foligno as a player, trading draft picks for rental players is not remotely unusual for a team in our position. We've stocked our pipeline quite well, and a late 1st in a weak draft made weaker by pandemic impacts is nothing to lose sleep over.

He said after the Winnipeg game where he got injured that it was something he had been dealing with all year. It was not new to him. So, either CBJ lied about his injury or Dubas didn't think it was an issue going forward.

If you have a player who mucks it up in the corners and he has a back problem....not the smartest move on our part to give up so much for him.

Besides...these deadline deals have such a low impact on teams for the most part that I wonder why contenders get seduced into it every year. The deals that work are the supplemental type lower in the lineup players IMO. It's not that common for a star player to blend in and do as well as you expected.

 

[All Mod Cons]

So because he didn’t get a 6th or 7th rounder the franchise is doomed now?

No way. This is like the 10th thing down the line of why Dubas has doomed the franchise. It's utterly stupid nonetheless.

 

[All Mod Cons]

That's how he "rolls".

Why does he even say this shit? Or was this after Columbus? Wait, was it the Boston series? When did he say this?

 

[Racer88]

Oh snap

 

[TDotMassive]

No way. This is like the 10th thing down the line of why Dubas has doomed the franchise. It's utterly stupid nonetheless.

A 6th rounder has a 16% chance of playing 100 NHL games, almost entirely in 4th line roles. That's the asset you're so consumed with?

Don't you think its more important to shaft a nemesis for $500k in cap space for 7 years? They have a similar window for winning as us, it makes it that much harder for them to construct a winner.

 

[Racer88]

Man this dude literally cant say anything, its unreal.

The guy opens his mouth and people whine.

Had he said the opposite, something like, "we like the looks of our team and how they stack up in our division" people would have crapped all over him saying "What!?!?! The team is nowhere near the level of Bos/TB, hes delusional, we are doomed."

He. Cant. Say. Anything. To. Appease. Everyone

He could say goodbye and I would be thrilled

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

Foligno got injured after the trade, and regardless of your feelings on Foligno as a player, trading draft picks for rental players is not remotely unusual for a team in our position. We've stocked our pipeline quite well, and a late 1st in a weak draft made weaker by pandemic impacts is nothing to lose sleep over.

Foligno was acquired with a preexisting injury and then reaggravated it. Dubas gambled on an injured aging player and lost. The result is the Leafs went out in the first round again and Foligno was a non factor.

You’ve been very generous to Dubas in your assessments of his performance. You post explanations like “success isn’t linear” and other word salad excuses.

Many of us here predicted long ago a winning team couldn’t be built while signing 4 players to contracts that ate up half of the salary cap. We were also told a playoff winner could be built using small pure skilled players. Now Dubas has recognized that hasn’t worked and won’t work and he’s now trying to acquire the players that many of us had said he should have been including in the lineup from day 1.

At some point, the results have to matter and have to speak for itself.

The bottom line is that the Leafs should not be hiring rookie GM’s that require on the job training.

 

[Racer88]

Dubas is a bit of a master manipulator, he comes off as a golly shucks school boy, when in fact he's just a manipulative little *****.

He is surely manipulating Shanny

 

[justloveleafs]

I want him to do something bold and fire Keefe and poach Jon Cooper. Jon Cooper is the best modern day hockey coach I have ever seen.

Ever since that guy arrived, the way he has that team playing is brilliant. And highly entertaining.

 

[heatersthebest]

Edmonton was willing to give Dubas a draft pick for the rights to a player he had ZERO intention of re-signing Hyman.

This is the equivalent of having someone offer you a scratch and win lottery ticket for the rotten banana you’re about to throw in the garbage - - and then refusing the offer because you want a 6/49 lottery ticket.

This example only works if you are never going to trade anything again with the person offering the scratch and win ticket. Since they got what they wanted for a measly scratch and win ticket they are not going to offer a lottery ticket when they know you will take a scratch ticket. Once the guy down the street finds out you took a scratch ticket, they aren't going to offer you a lottery ticket next time you try to make a deal with them, they are starting at a scratch ticket.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Like the other poster said TB also benefited from cap circumvention to add $13 million worth of players to their roster and that was their depth.

You take that cap stuff out and they lose the 3rd line who was arguably their best line and you lose depth on D forcing Hedman and McD to play higher minutes. Things might have looked different with out Gourde, Coleman, Godrow, Savard and the likes. Even if Kuch had a bad playoff they had depth to pick up the slack.

This year TB won't have that quality depth so we will see if the talk of moving a Kuch to balance out that lineup.

SO in fact it's not a bad comparison as there were many factors going into their starts being able to play well. They had a supporting cast that was fed by being $13M over the cap. I am sure Dubas could have assembled a good supporting cast for Marner and Matthews with $13M over the cap.

Point being as I said in my earlier post is this is the year Marner is in the cross hairs for his playoff performance. IF he doesn't do it this year he is the one getting sacraficed.

What was being discussed was that why are we talking about moving our stars and TB isn't.

My answer was that TB fans are used to their stars excelling in the playoffs whereas Leaf fans are used to Marner sucking in the playoffs, nothing you said changes that simple fact and yes, it's a terrible comparison. If Kucherov and Point had multiple consecutive playoffs where they sucked then I have no doubt that their fans would start to talk about moving them as well.

Cap stuff, 3rd line, depth is irrelevant, nothing but BS excuses. It's OK that Marner sucked because our depth wasn't as good as TB's, come one now. I don't even have words to say how ridiculous that sounds. It's not like TB is the only team with stars that played better than our golden 11 million dollar boy, there are a ton of stars that play well in the playoffs and very few that even approach Marner's pay grade that have failed to the extent that he has.

It's OK to call like it is. If pretending that Marner has a valid excuse for sucking in the playoffs for several years now makes you feel better, hey good for you but don't expect anyone else to buy into this ridiculous narrative.

 

[Buds17]

A 6th rounder has a 16% chance of playing 100 NHL games, almost entirely in 4th line roles. That's the asset you're so consumed with?

Don't you think its more important to shaft a nemesis for $500k in cap space for 7 years? They have a similar window for winning as us, it makes it that much harder for them to construct a winner.

The draft pick at least has the potential to help us (small as that potential may be). That could be as a team contributor or as currency in a trade. The latter scenario seems too focused on a rival/opponent (hurting them rather than helping ourselves). That amount (500K) also is below the NHL's minimum salary. I don't see much benefit, unless Edmonton is going to be over the cap and trading exclusively with us in order to become compliant.

I'm somewhat surprised Edmonton would even entertain a sign and trade for Hyman considering McDavid and Draisaitl are out of contract before then. What are the odds they win the Cup in Hyman's eighth season with the team if they have yet to do so prior to that? I'd also be a bit disappointed if Dubas would settle for nothing in an attempt to procure his desired price. We'll have to see how this all transpires.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Leafs got a first round exit and 3 draft picks this year....great!!!

And no 1st rounder. Thanks to the incompetence of the current management.

 

[hamzarocks]

Everyone chill out. Dubas and by extension Shanahan and Keefe have put their necks on the line and it's for real this time. The team either pulls through and delivers or they are gone and its time for a major retool

Nothing to be mad/disappointed about. No one on this team is special enough or likeable enough to care if they are moved. We are either going to be seeing the rewards or the Shanaplan next year or will finally see the nail put into the coffin and begin a major retool/rebuild.

Next year just watch and see, there is no bad outcome. Management + Coaching + Core can't escape again if they fail to deliver

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm somewhat surprised Edmonton would even entertain a sign and trade for Hyman considering McDavid and Draisaitl are out of contract before then. What are the odds they win the Cup in Hyman's eighth season with the team if they have yet to do so prior to that? I'd also be a bit disappointed if Dubas would settle for nothing in an attempt to procure his desired price. We'll have to see how this all transpires.

Also the fact that cup or no cup, the odds of Hyman being a useful player in that 8th year are near zero. Why any team would prefer signing him for 8 years instead of 7 is way beyond my understanding, I just don't get it.

 

[Habz4Evr]

He wanted a better pick and Edmonton was offering trash plain and simple. That 6th rounder is going to make you feel better? Haha

The Leafs are going to lose Hyman regardless. It would be better to get something for him than let him walk for nothing.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Everyone chill out. Dubas and by extension Shanahan and Keefe have put their necks on the line and it's for real this time. The team either pulls through and delivers or they are gone and its time for a major retool

Nothing to be mad/disappointed about. No one on this team is special enough or likeable enough to care if they are moved. We are either going to be seeing the rewards or the Shanaplan next year or will finally see the nail put into the coffin and begin a major retool/rebuild.

Next year just watch and see, there is no bad outcome. Management + Coaching + Core can't escape again if they fail to deliver

There is one bad outcome - one more year of suckage and the return on trading Marner (and Matthews) will be substantially less then it would be right now.

 

[SprDaVE]

The Leafs are going to lose Hyman regardless. It would be better to get something for him than let him walk for nothing.

There is a misconception that the Leafs can get something for Hyman regardless of the contract, or they are rejecting a late round pick. This is false.

The only way the Leafs can get compensation is if they sign Hyman to an 8 year deal and then trade him to the Oilers so that they can save them roughly 500k in cap space by adding an extra year. The Leafs are putting a lot of value on that as they should, whereas the Oilers are only offering a late round pick for the 8 year contract. The Leafs are not in the business of doing any favours to any team, especially for a player they are about to lose.

The Leafs aren't rejecting a late pick from the Oilers to go ahead and sign any other deal. There is no compensation for this because the Oilers can just do that on Wednesday... and they will at this rate.

 

[DuklaNation]

Losing Hyman for nothing is a another classic red herring. Dubas is a deer in headlights. What is he doing to fix the issues on this roster? As time goes on, more problems will occur. Your true window started last season (if not earlier). How many seasons left before Matthews heads to AZ?

 

[Deebo]

Also the fact that cup or no cup, the odds of Hyman being a useful player in that 8th year are near zero. Why any team would prefer signing him for 8 years instead of 7 is way beyond my understanding, I just don't get it.

They want the cap hit to be lower in the short term.

They aren't gettting him if they don't give him 7 years, and 7 vs 8 is negligble in terms of long term risk, especially to the current GM. So they take the slightly longer contract to gain short term cap space.

How does one extra year with him on LTIR at the end of his deal really effect the Oilers?

 

[hamzarocks]

There is one bad outcome - one more year of suckage and the return on trading Marner (and Matthews) will be substantially less then it would be right now.

That's a bad outcome but not the worst. If we begin another rebuild and get 80% of the value on what MM and AM should be worth, it's still not that bad considering how crappy the return for Kessel, Phaneuf were during the previous rebuild. Obviously, those two are much better but we saw how well a team was built within a short period of time. All it would take is one tank year, with some luck and we have the next one in Bedard/Mitchkov along with hopefully Dubas's touted prospects + the young pieces from MM and AM deal.

Worst outcome would be if the new GM comes in and just replaces Kyle Dubas but keeps the core 4 intact and runs it for a 7th time lol.

 

[supermann_98]

I would bet that Dubas get's picked up almost immediately by another team.

Depends ... if the owner is able to and likes cutting a massive cheque every July 1st, and is OK with overpaying players, and is also OK with only 1 round of playoff revenue, you're probably right he'll get picked up right away

 

[All Mod Cons]

A 6th rounder has a 16% chance of playing 100 NHL games, almost entirely in 4th line roles. That's the asset you're so consumed with?

Don't you think its more important to shaft a nemesis for $500k in cap space for 7 years? They have a similar window for winning as us, it makes it that much harder for them to construct a winner.

Like I said, I'm not consumed with this. Just read it.
This is so far down the list of f***ups Dubas has already made, it barely registers. However, it's still utterly stupid.

All of his quotes now start with "I know people will roll their eyes", I know the narrative but", I know people won't believe this".

He's the GM of the biggest franchise in the NHL. He sounds like a teenager that's been caught lying.

Again, no matter what he does, the damage was does years ago. Matthews, Marner, Tavares for 11mil each (give or take). The damage is done. This stuff is just his stubbornness outshining Babcock.