Kyle Dubas - - Horrible Asset Mismanagement

[DarkKnight]

I haven't misrepresented anything. The truth is, the only reason Foligno missed games with us was an injury experienced with us. To misrepresent it otherwise is wrong.

I said he was damaged goods when he came here, his immediate play confirmed it, then he was further injured again with something else. To trade a first and a fourth, I assumed he had a clean bill of health, he obviously didn’t and Dubas owns every bit of it despite your inability to entertain the slightest realization he is fallible. Now he’s walking for nothing, further making it an absurd return.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I said he was damaged goods when he came here, his immediate play confirmed it

He was not damaged goods when he came here, and nothing about his play suggested that. If anything, his first few games were his best games with us, so that's a rather illogical statement.

 

[Aus34Matt]

Foligno was not injured prior to the trade. He quarantined, then had a mild injury soon after joining the Leafs, which he largely played through, and then got further injured in the playoffs. The reason he was not playing was injuries with the Leafs. That's the risk you take with this type of player, who everybody was just fine with at the time.

He had an undisclosed preexisting injury. Pretty sure the Leafs knew about it, he was on the IR when we picked him up.

 

[Havoc]

Look at the salary dump trades that have happened.

Those teams ABSORB salary to acquire draft picks. That means their cap increases.

Leafs would be absorbing ZERO salary to acquire a pick from Edmonton.

Do you really think the Oilers are going to sign a franchise-altering player with that $500k they’d save?

Are you okay with a 6th round pick setting precedent for an 8 year sign and trade that helps the other team lower their cap hit? Or does that seem absolutely ridiculous instead?

Question no.2 : If a quality third liner could be had for 2 mil a season but Edmonton team swoops in and offers 2.5, do you still think the 500k doesn't make a difference or would you wish to have it suddenly? It's a long road to the cup all the depth counts.

 

[IPS]

He had an undisclosed preexisting injury. Pretty sure the Leafs knew about it, he was on the IR when we picked him up.

Loads of Columbus fans were also suspecting he was playing injured in portions of the season.

It was an absolutely horrendous trade by Dubas.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I said he was damaged goods when he came here, his immediate play confirmed it, then he was further injured again with something else. To trade a first and a fourth, I assumed he had a clean bill of health, he obviously didn’t and Dubas owns every bit of it despite your inability to entertain the slightest realization he is fallible. Now he’s walking for nothing, further making it an absurd return.

Yeah the Foligno trade was one of Kyle's worst 4 or 5 trades. A lot to choose from though.

 

[cupcrazyman]

Lots of playoff teams are in the same situation. Colorado, Washington, Pittsburgh, NYI, Boston, Edmonton, Tampa all traded a bunch of draft picks this year.

Minnesota is really the only one that kept all of their picks for this years draft.

This was the best Leafs team in ages with great depth that royally screwed themselves out of an easy run to the final 4. It was the right thing to do, it just didn't work out.

Unless you're a fan of Tampa you can lament any GM for trading picks at the deadline because you didn't win the cup.

If we get to the conference or cup final, then I have no issue.My other issue is with Dubas, who traded a 1st for a role player who may or may not have been injured.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I wish there was multiple versions of HFboards based on age range

I think you are right. Thats a good idea.

 

[Dekes For Days]

He had an undisclosed preexisting injury. Pretty sure the Leafs knew about it, he was on the IR when we picked him up.

Foligno played every game prior to the game before the trade deadline, where it is common practice for potential trade targets to sit. He played with us as soon as his quarantine was up, featuring some of his best performances. He tweaked something soon after, which he played through, until he further injured it a few games later. Then he came back and got injured again in the playoffs. The only reason he missed games with us was injuries experienced with the Leafs. One can like or dislike the trade without misrepresenting his health status.

 

[Gary Nylund]

High price, yes. Excellent addition, yes.

When you don't manage your cap well, and you need to have two teams retain salary, the price goes up. So you either pay to upgrade or don't upgrade.

I would have preferred not to upgrade but that's me. I don't like rentals in general, they only make sense to me if a team's cup window is about to close or if the team is such a strong contender that they have an excellent chance of winning the cup. The first is obviously not true and neither was the second, in fact the second is rarely true for any team.

Last year, in the offseason he checked off every box - grit a perfect partner for Rielly and depth theoughout the lineup (Bogosian, Boyd, Vesey and later Galchenyuk) He got the results by going 35-14-7 and coasted into 1st in our division. IMO he gets a pass for Marner & Matthews going cold and JT being injured.

He grossly overestimated how good this team is and therefore pissed away valuable futures in a futile attempt at going deep - that doesn't get a pass from me. As far as Marner going cold, that had already happened the previous two years so assuming it won't happen again was another costly mistake. Dubas was gambling that his stars would excel, they didn't and that's on him.

Dubas should not be trading any more futures until his stars (I mean money Mitch) show that they can be counted on to perform when the stakes are high, period. Or just trade the loser, that would really be the best solution.

 

[Deebo]

I guess that might make some sense though I don't think the cap hit on a 8 year deal would be much lower.

425k, according to Johnston:

Link

What Edmonton stood to gain in a potential Hyman sign-and-trade eclipsed each of those precedent-setting trades in total value. The pending unrestricted free agent is believed to be in line to receive $5.075-million annually on an eight-year deal or $5.5-million per on a seven-year contract from Edmonton should he get to the open market.

 

[Maple Leaf]

If you need rentals to get through the first round there is no point

 

[Gary Nylund]

425k, according to Johnston:

Link

That doesn't seem like much TBH. I'd rather not handicap my team with a 5 million dollar anchor for that 8th year but if people want to say that EDM isn't worried about what happens 8 years from now, I get that POV (even if I don't agree with it).

425k is what, about 0.5% of the cap, nobody's moving any needles with that.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If you need rentals to get through the first round there is no point

Unless Dubas figures that getting through the 1st round will be difference between him losing/keeping his job.

/end cynicism (for now anyway)

 

[Deebo]

That doesn't seem like much TBH. I'd rather not handicap my team with a 5 million dollar anchor for that 8th year but if people want to say that EDM isn't worried about what happens 8 years from now, I get that POV (even if I don't agree with it).

425k is what, about 0.5% of the cap, nobody's moving any needles with that.

It's not that they don't care about what happens 8 years from now, its that's 7 vs 8 is not really that different and that 8th year is likely LTIRed or somewhat easy to move by so it really doesn't handicap them.

Ideally you don't want to go 7 with Hyman at all, but if you have to go 7 to get him, then the 8th doesn't change things that much long term, but the short term cap space can help as the year goes on, especially with the flat cap. Sure, it's not that much, but that's why they are only offering a 6th to make it happen.

 

[Aus34Matt]

Foligno played every game prior to the game before the trade deadline, where it is common practice for potential trade targets to sit. He played with us as soon as his quarantine was up, featuring some of his best performances. He tweaked something soon after, which he played through, until he further injured it a few games later. Then he came back and got injured again in the playoffs. The only reason he missed games with us was injuries experienced with the Leafs. One can like or dislike the trade without misrepresenting his health status.

Stop it.

 

[Bluelines]

Some of these were Lou's own rentals genius. When I saw who the poster is I wasn't shocked.

You mean when Dubas was part of the brain trust, GM's don't make decisions in a silo.

 

[Bluelines]

Many of those players listed cost draft picks to acquire.

So that list of squandered assets is even longer.

Makes his mismanagement look so much worse then..

 

[Bluelines]

Stop it.

You gave him a direct tweet from Foligno and he still believes his fabricated version of reality. WOW ...

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

If we get to the conference or cup final, then I have no issue.My other issue is with Dubas, who traded a 1st for a role player who may or may not have been injured.

A first is the price you pay for rental players sometimes. The Leafs had a good team this year, they went from 28th in goals against to 7th, their offense was amazing, yet for some reason they're cursed in the playoffs.

 

[Donnie740]

Are you okay with a 6th round pick setting precedent for an 8 year sign and trade that helps the other team lower their cap hit? Or does that seem absolutely ridiculous instead?

Question no.2 : If a quality third liner could be had for 2 mil a season but Edmonton team swoops in and offers 2.5, do you still think the 500k doesn't make a difference or would you wish to have it suddenly? It's a long road to the cup all the depth counts.

Let me think - - would I prefer to have NOTHING or would I prefer to have a 6th round pick?

You can’t be serious with that question.

The excuse that Edmonton will have a “franchise altering” $500k of cap space is as laughable as Dubas’ playoff record.

As I’ve explained numerous times, any team that gives a mediocre try-hard like Hyman $5m is going to be stuck with a horrific boat-anchor contract for years.

Watch how terrible Hyman’s contract is in years 5/6/7/8. Sticking Edmonton with this brutal deal PLUS getting a draft pick to do so would be a fantastic win/win for the Leafs.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It's not that they don't care about what happens 8 years from now, its that's 7 vs 8 is not really that different and that 8th year is likely LTIRed or somewhat easy to move by so it really doesn't handicap them.

Ideally you don't want to go 7 with Hyman at all, but if you have to go 7 to get him, then the 8th doesn't change things that much long term, but the short term cap space can help as the year goes on, especially with the flat cap. Sure, it's not that much, but that's why they are only offering a 6th to make it happen.

If the 8th year is as easy to deal with as you say, then it's fine I guess. I'm not that familiar with these LTIR details so I'll take your word for it.

 

[rocketman588]

My biggest issue with this whole thing is that on one hand we talk in the media about how important 500k of Cap space is and that it should be worth a second.

Then we go and double our 7th defensemans salary and burn 500/700k of extra cap space for shits and gigs

No to mention the quote where he was kinda whining that teams were making him pay extra at the deadline

Yeah dude a team with cap space is going to 100% screw you over as a third party cap eater at the deadline you're desperate and they have nothing to lose

 

[egd27]

Foligno was not injured prior to the trade. He quarantined, then had a mild injury soon after joining the Leafs, which he largely played through, and then got further injured in the playoffs. The reason he was not playing was injuries with the Leafs. That's the risk you take with this type of player, who everybody was just fine with at the time.

Someone was lying then....
Columbus Blue Jackets F Nick Foligno (upper-body) out vs. Chicago Blackhawks, listed as day-to-day - TSN.ca

 

[paulhiggins]

Do you really think the Oilers are going to sign a franchise-altering player with that $500k they’d save?

Who but you is suggesting that? You do know what the league minimum is? However if the Flames have 8.5M cap space for an 8.5M player and all the Oilers can muster is 8.0M, where do you think the player goes?