Kyle Dubas - - Horrible Asset Mismanagement

[Maple Leaf]

I have a co-worker who believes he smokes the "healthy" brand of cigarettes.

I would only smoke if I had a terminal illness

 

[Leaf Fans]

Except one of us is grounded in reality.

5th round pick + 7th round pick >>>> receiving nothing

You're attempting to argue the opposite.

As you can see, basically no one agrees with this completely outlandish idea.

You're obviously just trying to pull our legs though.

Appreciate the attempt at abstract humour.

Goodrow got a sixth. All of the other free agents left for "nothing" that is the norm. In Hymans case, Holland could have stepped up- he didn't.

 

[Doublerum1975]

If he would have taken the picks people would be complaining he didn't get enough for helping Edmonton out for the cap and how he screwed up the value for helping a team out on saving cap space

 

[Leaf Fans]

I have a co-worker who believes he smokes the "healthy" brand of cigarettes.

Lol -Dubas haters. A healthy brand of cigarettes like that is possible.

 

[Bomber0104]

Goodrow got a sixth. All of the other free agents left for "nothing" that is the norm. In Hymans case, Holland could have stepped up- he didn't.

You can keep repeating this until you're blue in the face.

Kyle ended up with nothing and Edmonton got our player.

Kyle didn't "step up" and settle in at a price that benefitted the organization.

His selfishness cost the Leafs at least two assets that we know of.

 

[Leaf Fans]

You can keep repeating this until you're blue in the face.

Kyle ended up with nothing and Edmonton got our player.

Kyle didn't "step up" and settle in at a price that benefitted the organization.

His selfishness cost the Leafs at least two assets that we know of.

I won't get blue. That is the situation. It is not going to change. I will probably bring it more as there are several posters who quite frankly don't understand. I will be in the office all day so I might continue throughout the day, and then bring it up when other posters try to confuse the situation either willfully or through ignorance.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

Its shocking how little logic and common sense these dubas fan boys have.

Just 100% drunk on the blue kool-aid.

I’m sure Holland will remember this little incident and will repay “ the favour” if the opportunity arises.

It’s always better to have friends out there than to breed enemies.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

Right.

Edmonton got Hyman at a higher AAV and Dubas lost Hyman, a couple of potential draft picks, and perhaps some goodwill from an future HOF GM.

But he he did get..............wait, what did he get?

He got the support of the non-sensical Dubas fan club.

 

[Stephen]

I’m sure Holland will remember this little incident and will repay “ the favour” if the opportunity arises.

It’s always better to have friends out there than to breed enemies.

I get the feeling like the old guard gives Kyle enough of hard time that he's unwilling to pay it forward with an old school GM. Follow the retention on the Foligno deal and Toronto really paid a premium. I mean it also doesn't help that he's willing to say out loud he's willing to part with picks and prospects in a press conference, but here we are.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

I'll edit the options then:

Situation A
We lose hyman via FA, get nothing in return but Oilers have to pay 400k more per year for 7 years.

Situation B
We lose hyman via trade, get 2 picks and Oilers get to save 400k per year for 7 years.

You think situation A is better for the leafs?

Please explain how situation A improves the maples leafs.

It doesn’t.

The Dubas fan club are just deflecting .

There is no “upside” to giving away 2 draft pics for nothing and pissing off a fellow executive.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

This is a joke right?

We lost one of our top players and received nothing for it.

Zero.

In what universe can that be considered "great" ?

In the Kyle Dubas fan club universe.

 

[egd27]

He got the support of the non-sensical Dubas fan club.

So no new assets there either.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

If he would have taken the picks people would be complaining he didn't get enough for helping Edmonton out for the cap and how he screwed up the value for helping a team out on saving cap space

Yes, very true.

To avoid scrutiny going forward, I think Dubas should just give everyone away for free.

 

[All Mod Cons]

If he would have taken the picks people would be complaining he didn't get enough for helping Edmonton out for the cap and how he screwed up the value for helping a team out on saving cap space

No they really wouldn't. I believe that's just a made up scenario. People would complain they didn't re-sign him, but wouldn't complain that, after such a decision was made, two picks were received so we didn't lose him for nothing.

I think this is some notion made up by Dubas fans. I've been reading a lot of made up scenarios over the last two years, basically saying if Dubas did X or Y people would complain. It's just one of dozens of excuses that his loyal supporters have just invented to try to alienate a large portion of the fanbase.

 

[Stephen]

It doesn’t.

The Dubas fan club are just deflecting .

There is no “upside” to giving away 2 draft pics for nothing and pissing off a fellow executive.

I think Dubas deserves some criticism for not getting anything back because it fits with a pattern of not being careful enough with assets. He really doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt. But in and of itself it's kind of a meh, very marginal decision for the Leafs to not get the extra low round picks and probably not worth the passionate chatter from either side.

 

[Garthinater]

If he would have taken the picks people would be complaining he didn't get enough for helping Edmonton out for the cap and how he screwed up the value for helping a team out on saving cap space

This is such a bad take.

We were losing hyamn anyways. We all knew that.

Nobody was asking Kyle to get a first or even a second round pick. If all he could manage was 2 late picks cool.

But for some reason Kyle thought it was better for the leafs to not accept two free draft picks.

I'm starting to think its intentional sabotage.

 

[Garthinater]

No they really wouldn't. I believe that's just a made up scenario. People would complain they didn't re-sign him, but wouldn't complain that, after such a decision was made, two picks were received so we didn't lose him for nothing.

I think this is some notion made up by Dubas fans. I've been reading a lot of made up scenarios over the last two years, basically saying if Dubas did X or Y people would complain. It's just one of dozens of excuses that his loyal supporters have just invented to try to alienate a large portion of the fanbase.

Basically the dubas fans try to paint a picture where Kyle is stuck in a no win situation so therfore it can't really be his fault.

Either that or its lous, babs, Freddy's, marners, jumbos, etcs fault.

Anything but have Kyle take responsibility.

Its almost like they chear for the gm and not the team. Why else would you approve of Kyle not taking 2 draft picks for free?

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

I think Dubas deserves some criticism for not getting anything back because it fits with a pattern of not being careful enough with assets. He really doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt. But in and of itself it's kind of a meh, very marginal decision for the Leafs to not get the extra low round picks and probably not worth the passionate chatter from either side.

Frederik Anderson was originally a 7th round pick.

 

[The CyNick]

That 500K every in cap savings over the course of the deal a 7 and a 5th or a 6th are not mid round picks. Dubas did great in this. Dubas could have resigned him.

We have different definitions of great.

 

[Stephen]

Frederik Anderson was originally a 7th round pick.

I'm not saying I'm happy with it, but all things considered not getting a 7th round pick for Hyman's rights wouldn't make the top 10 of "critiques."

 

[All Mod Cons]

Basically the dubas fans try to paint a picture where Kyle is stuck in a no win situation so therfore it can't really be his fault.

Either that or its lous, babs, Freddy's, marners, jumbos, etcs fault.

Anything but have Kyle take responsibility.

Its almost like they chear for the gm and not the team. Why else would you approve of Kyle not taking 2 draft picks for free?

I honestly have no idea.

And at the same time they highly rate Abruzzese (4th) Abramov (4th) and Miettinen (6th). Like we could've got another one of those just as a thank you from Edmonton.

*in this scenario I'm assuming it's fairly possible to trade a 5th and 7th for a 4th.

 

[Leaf Fans]

We have different definitions of great.

Well mine is: of an extent, amount, or intensity considerably above average.

 

[Garthinater]

I’m sure Holland will remember this little incident and will repay “ the favour” if the opportunity arises.

It’s always better to have friends out there than to breed enemies.

It doesn’t.

The Dubas fan club are just deflecting .

There is no “upside” to giving away 2 draft pics for nothing and pissing off a fellow executive.

I get the feeling dubas isn't well liked by the other gms around the league. Why make it worse and burn a bridge with the Oilers?

I foolishly believed his fan club would've stopped after the embarrassing loss to the jackets. Then I thought maybe after the catastrophe that was the habs series they would realize he is a sham. Yet here we are with some of these posters actually telling us its better to get nothing than 2 draft picks.

Those same posters tell us how amazing of a drafter Kyle is. Yet we don't need 2 when we only have 2, maybe 3, picks next year.

Thanks for the likes btw lol

 

[rojac]

You can keep repeating this until you're blue in the face.

Kyle ended up with nothing and Edmonton got our player.

Kyle didn't "step up" and settle in at a price that benefitted the organization.

His selfishness cost the Leafs at least two assets that we know of.

So, what's your advice to Dubas for knowing when the other side is simply going to pull their offer? Because to me, it seems more likely that Edmonton pulled their offer than Toronto just deciding they'd take nothing.

For all we know, the last part of the negotiation went like this:

EDM: A 5th and a 7th.
TOR: A 5th and a 6th.
EDM: Nah. We're done. We'll just do the 7 year deal.
TOR: Okay, okay, we'll do the 5th and a 7th.
EDM: Nope. Sorry. I said we're done. Good-bye.

From what I've heard, Edmonton's first offer was a 6th. Dubas' negotiation got the offer up to something like a 5th and a 7th. As I've said, I think it's likely that Dubas tried to negotiate it still higher and Edmonton simply walked away.

Now, based on the concept that Dubas should have gotten something for Hyman, he shouldn't have negotiated at all and just taken the 6th. But I think a lot of Leaf fans wanted him to get more, at which point, the possibility that Edmonton simply pulls the offer at some point enters the picture. So, by entering a negotiation, he is taking a chance that Edmonton changes their mind and simply accepts the extra $400K cap hit for one less year.

 

[All Mod Cons]

So, what's your advice to Dubas for knowing when the other side is simply going to pull their offer? Because to me, it seems more likely that Edmonton pulled their offer than Toronto just deciding they'd take nothing.

For all we know, the last part of the negotiation went like this:

EDM: A 5th and a 7th.
TOR: A 5th and a 6th.
EDM: Nah. We're done. We'll just do the 7 year deal.
TOR: Okay, okay, we'll do the 5th and a 7th.
EDM: Nope. Sorry. I said we're done. Good-bye.

From what I've heard, Edmonton's first offer was a 6th. Dubas' negotiation got the offer up to something like a 5th and a 7th. As I've said, I think it's likely that Dubas tried to negotiate it still higher and Edmonton simply walked away.

Now, based on the concept that Dubas should have gotten something for Hyman, he shouldn't have negotiated at all and just taken the 6th. But I think a lot of Leaf fans wanted him to get more, at which point, the possibility that Edmonton simply pulls the offer at some point enters the picture. So, by entering a negotiation, he is taking a chance that Edmonton changes their mind and simply accepts the extra $400K cap hit for one less year.

WTAF.