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Kyle Dubas - - Horrible Asset Mismanagement

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Garthinater said:
Thats nice. But what does their cap have to do with our assets? Them saving 500k a year has no effect on us. Them giving us 2 free picks how ever can be used to better our team.

You are not using any logic whatsoever.
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I would have loved to drafted more guys, but I get not selling a Benz for the price of a Pontiac too. How's that for logic?
 
Bomber0104 said:
No sale was made and the asset is now lost.

You lost it for nothing.

What are you honestly not getting about this? :laugh:
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Edmonton was trying to buy cap space and Dubas was selling it to them.

I don't think you guys actually get how that transaction went down.

Edmonton wanted to buy cap space, they were already getting Hyman.
 
Garthinater said:
Lmao it literally would've cost the leafs nothing and they would've gotten 2 picks for free. We already were going to lose hyman and if we had traded him he wouldn't affect our cap.

The fact you can convince yourself its a win tells me all I need to know. Thank you.
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I am not convincing myself of anything. I agreeing with you that turning down a free asset or worse two would have been bad had they been offered. Insteat like with the Hyman contract where the Leafs had to do something to save Edmonton's cap to get possibly a 5th and 7th - maybe merly a 6th. Holland could have stepped up, but he didn't. I heard in a tweet or maybe just on the board that the ask was a second round pick. Holland crapped the bed. If they are happy with the cap, we lose nothing, Hyman left like the dozens of free agents past and present. It cost us nothing.
 
Funk21 said:
in

Just read this on the link with Mrazek interview. They are also reporting it was a top 5 plus the additional late round pick.

If this is true they Dubas is an idiot. I get that late round picks are much worse than a coin toss but you can’t win the lotto if you ain’t got a ticket.
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I'm partially torn on this

I get Dubas wanted more, and I get that in the past you've seen RFA (typo) UFA rights traded for 3rd (but also for 4th-7ths too), and I get that 10% cap reduction through a retained salary transaction can often go as high as a 2nd - I get all that.
But if the opportunity is there, I can't help but feel Dubas should've taken the offer on the table and walked away from the player they were already going to walk away from with two free picks

That said... setting a price and caving at the last second is not a good look. Dubas gets a lot of hate already and there's no denying he would've been equally criticized for folding and looking like a pushover as he did for standing his ground.
Look at Francis right now. He played hardball, saying he wanted picks or he'd take the big players, and teams called his bluff and he balked, didn't take the big names, and he's getting ripped to shreds here.

I'd rather have something than nothing, but Dubas caving and taking the lesser picks would show others you can just play chicken with Dubas and get your way
 
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Leaf Fans said:
I am not convincing myself of anything. I agreeing with you that turning down a free asset or worse two would have been bad had they been offered. Insteat like with the Hyman contract where the Leafs had to do something to save Edmonton's cap to get possibly a 5th and 7th - maybe merly a 6th. Holland could have stepped up, but he didn't. I heard in a tweet or maybe just on the board that the ask was a second round pick. Holland crapped the bed. If they are happy with the cap, we lose nothing, Hyman left like the dozens of free agents past and present. It cost us nothing.
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Situation A
We lose hyman via FA and get nothing back

Situation B
We lose hyman via trade and get 2 draft picks back

You honestly think situation A is better?
 
Garthinater said:
Thats nice. But what does their cap have to do with our assets? Them saving 500k a year has no effect on us. Them giving us 2 free picks how ever can be used to better our team.

You are not using any logic whatsoever.
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It might even have a positive effect on us, Hey Ken we will do you this favor give you an extra year but when we come knocking for a trade later this year we want you to treat us fairly.

Build bridges not walls... :)
 
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A1LeafNation said:
Edmonton was trying to buy cap space and Dubas was selling it to them.

I don't think you guys actually get how that transaction went down.

Edmonton wanted to buy cap space, they were already getting Hyman.
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And now Dubas can't sell anything to them anymore.

Hyman is signed and that very temporary and almost valueless asset (the 8th year of a contract) Dubas had is no more.

He did not sell it, received nothing, and then of course lost a top player on the team to free agency for nothing.
 
uncleben said:
I'm partially torn on this

I get Dubas wanted more, and I get that in the past you've seen RFA rights traded for 3rd (but also for 4th-7ths too), and I get that 10% cap reduction through a retained salary transaction can often go as high as a 2nd - I get all that.
But if the opportunity is there, I can't help but feel Dubas should've taken the offer on the table and walked away from the player they were already going to walk away from with two free picks

That said... setting a price and caving at the last second is not a good look. Dubas gets a lot of hate already and there's no denying he would've been equally criticized for folding and looking like a pushover as he did for standing his ground.
Look at Francis right now. He played hardball, saying he wanted picks or he'd take the big players, and teams called his bluff and he balked, didn't take the big names, and he's getting ripped to shreds here.

I'd rather have something than nothing, but Dubas caving and taking the lesser picks would show others you can just play chicken with Dubas and get your way
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He looks weak and foolish right now for getting nothing. Maybe price that deal more appropriately? If I'm management, I take note of this failure. Not huge value loss in the big picture but its a symptom of the real problem. Dubas has to be removed ASAP before more damage is done. This roster is getting worse, not better.
 
A1LeafNation said:
I would have loved to drafted more guys, but I get not selling a Benz for the price of a Pontiac too. How's that for logic?
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How about selling a Benz you can't afford are are going to lose it anyway to the repo man, but the Repo man comes to you and says hey I'm taking your Benz, here is a free Pontiac
 
Garthinater said:
So just to be clear:

Situation A
We lose hyman to fa and get nothing in return.

Situation B
We lose hyman but via trade and get 2 picks back

You honestly think situation A is better?
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No, the situation doesn't apply to Hyman though.
 
Bomber0104 said:
And now Dubas can't sell anything to them anymore.

Hyman is signed and that very temporary and almost valueless asset (the 8th year of a contract) Dubas had is no more.

He did not sell it, received nothing, and then of course lost a top player on the team to free agency for nothing.
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Edmonton didn't want to buy that cap space bad enough.

Can't Dubas trade some unsigned prospect or a depth player for those picks. I don't think missing out on those picks hurt the Leafs.

Edmonton has 500k less to spend for 7 years, and that's the choice they made.

I'll shit on Dubas for stupid moves, but this wasn't one of them.
 
Garthinater said:
So just to be clear:

Situation A
We lose hyman to fa and get nothing in return.

Situation B
We lose hyman but via trade and get 2 picks back

You honestly think situation A is better?
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Don't forget in Situation A - in addition to receiving absolutely nothing - we also get to "screw over" Edmonton/Ken Holland for $500k of capspace..

Apparently there's value in that for the Leafs! :laugh:
 
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Could David Krejci be a target if he doesn't go back to the Czech Republic? The Leafs added two Czech players this past off-season.
 
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Edmonton should have paid something for the right to jump the queue and negotiate early.
 
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DuklaNation said:
He looks weak and foolish right now for getting nothing. Maybe price that deal more appropriately? If I'm management, I take note of this failure. Not huge value loss in the big picture but its a symptom of the real problem. Dubas has to be removed ASAP before more damage is done. This roster is getting worse, not better.
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He'd look weak and foolish either way

He priced it based on what $500k out of $5M retention, and other signing-rights deals look like
I would have taken the picks, I think it's a better deal to get something over nothing, but trading "below" market value, or doubling back and caving, you know would have brought out tonnes of hate for being a pushover and having no spine
 
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Bomber0104 said:
And now Dubas can't sell anything to them anymore.

Hyman is signed and that very temporary and almost valueless asset (the 8th year of a contract) Dubas had is no more.

He did not sell it, received nothing, and then of course lost a top player on the team to free agency for nothing.
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Fact of the matter is, we were losing Hyman no matter what
And that happens. CAR lost Hamilton, STL lost Hoffman, VGK signed Pietrangelo, we signed Tavares, Dallas signed Hull and Belfour. Free Agency is just a thing; teams lose top players, and 99% of the time the team gets nothing.

I'd have taken those picks too, but in reality, what happened was just the default scenario, the baseline, nothing really lost. What happened is we didn't somehow sucker another team to trade us quality assets to sign a player they could have and did sign for free a day later
 
Garthinater said:
Dubas traded a 1st for foligo and just lost him for nothing. How is that not a loss?

Dubas decided to keep both freddy and hyman when he knew they were going to be lost next season. We lost in the 1st round both times. Dubas' gambles have failed everytime.

If he lets rielly walk for nothing, he will go down as one of the worst gms at asset management.
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You don't trade Freddy or your top line LW at the trade deadline unless you're getting an upgrade on both.
 
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