Kyle Dubas - - Horrible Asset Mismanagement

[Funk21]

So Dubas turned down 2 draft pick as part of Hyman signing with the Oilers ?

in

Just read this on the link with Mrazek interview. They are also reporting it was a top 5 plus the additional late round pick.

If this is true then Dubas is an idiot. I get that late round picks are much worse than a coin toss but you can’t win the lotto if you ain’t got a ticket.

 

[Superstar]

How do you even let someone negotiate with other teams ahead of time without having the parameters of a deal in place?

I guess Dubas was being nice, like when he gave Matthews and Marner their deals.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

in

Just read this on the link with Mrazek interview. They are also reporting it was a top 5 plus the additional late round pick.

If this is true they Dubas is an idiot. I get that late round picks are much worse than a coin toss but you can’t win the lotto if you ain’t got a ticket.

I beat that drum to death as soon as I heard Hyman's agreed to both sets of deals. I knew Dubas was going to just let Holland jump the market and grab him for nothing. And yes, I know he was going to market anyway, the point was that you have control of the asset until July 28 and no one should be allowed to talk such an important piece for no fixed or agreed-upon cost.

This has been beyond disappointing so far from Dubas. I've been labeled a hater, but I actually haven't been and praised some of his work, like the Bunting deal is great.

I know this will get hate from the it's still early crowd, but what is the thought process (or lack thereof) behind not grabbing assets on draft day for Dermott, and then have a Schenn or Hak in your back pocket to man the bottom pair with Sandin? Why is Dermott still on this roster with the quality assets thrown around for decent, proven Dmen? Is the plan to go Dermott as RD3 with Sandin, or Dermott at LD3 with Lily as RD3? What's the plan here for that bottom pair, because as much as Bogo is replaceable (by 2 guys who literally just signed very good contracts in Hak and Schenn), he was a stalwart back there for us. He was a known commodity who was responsible with the puck, could skate it out, make outlet passes, and was not afraid to mix it up when needed. Now we're really thinking of running a combo of Dermott/Sandin/Lilly/Biega?

It's not about it being too early, it's about it about asset maximization and it growing too late as the market parameters shrink because you want "to wait for the market to settle". It's about using a strong and potentially redundant asset like Dermott to fill in a much-needed position at LW, or to grab future assets and then using the Dermott salary to sign one of Hak or Schenn. What other bonafide RD3s are out there now on the free market?

Hope there's a nice galaxy brain master stroke from Dubas here... getting worried about the sitting on our hands with the comments he's made and the players that he's missed out on.

 

[Dekes For Days]

During his time as General Manager the team has lost, for nothing, Jake Gardiner, James Van Riemsdyk, Tyler Bozak, Tyson Barrie, Zach Hyman, Nick Foligno and Fredrik Andersen.

JVR and Bozak were pre-Dubas, the likes of Foligno were only here as rental acquisitions, and you ignore why these players left in UFA, as well as the better signings and players that replaced them, resulting in a better team. All teams see this type of turnover, especially competitive ones.

 

[mclaren55]

I'm completely underwhelmed by everything that has happened with this team since their exit this year. From exit interviews, to managements direction, to the signings made. I am comfortably lackadaisical about this upcoming season. Good job guys!

 

[Curt]

I'm completely underwhelmed by everything that has happened with this team since their exit this year. From exit interviews, to managements direction, to the signings made. I am comfortably lackadaisical about this upcoming season. Good job guys!

with Mitch marners salary and with him Saying he played great in the playoffs I simply don’t understand how anyone can cheer to This team

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

JVR and Bozak were pre-Dubas, the likes of Foligno were only here as rental acquisitions, and you ignore why these players left in UFA, as well as the better signings and players that replaced them, resulting in a better team. All teams see this type of turnover, especially competitive ones.

Yeah I've been neutral on Dubas, but saying he lost Foligno for nothing is not correct. Now, overpaying for Foligno is another story altogether.

He also couldn't just trade Andersen or Hyman during a "cup run" either.

But, once he inevitably lets Rielly walk for nothing in order to chase a ghost this year, that will be something to talk about

 

[rumman]

Yup.

A team a conference over needed to be made to pay for their UFA signing.

The Leafs needed to teach them that lesson at a cost of acquiring multiple draft picks of their own.

I'm not sure how that lesson helps the Leafs in any way but hey, lesson taught....

The Leafs lose a very valuable player for literally nothing at the end of the day.

Wonder how Rielly goes next year...

that'll show them............

 

[Garthinater]

Possibly a 5th and a 7th they were on the condition of a sign and trade. Thankfully he didn't take them.

Why is it a good thing that dubas didn't take 2 free draft picks?

How is that a win in your mind?

I'm always perplexed by how the minds of the dubas fan club operate. Please, elaborate.

 

[Bluelines]

Yeah I've been neutral on Dubas, but saying he lost Foligno for nothing is not correct. Now, overpaying for Foligno is another story altogether.

He also couldn't just trade Andersen or Hyman during a "cup run" either.

But, once he inevitably lets Rielly walk for nothing in order to chase ghost this year, that will be something to talk about

Which is why the summer before their last year, he should have made an assessment that he was not going to resign them and let them walk for no value. We do 1 year, 3 year and 5 year projections at my work, we have a pretty solid understanding of what our expenses (with in a small deviance) are and what our revenues are years in advance, no one can convince me he didn't know that he would not have money for Andersen and Hyman. I'm sure a year ago a Mrazek like goalie was available on the UFA market. If a goalie of that skill level is good enough now, why not a year ago?

Two things you never do in business, pay full price for anything and let something go for nothing. This franchise has been piss poor with their asset management over the last half decade.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Why is it a good thing that dubas didn't take 2 free draft picks?

How is that a win in your mind?

I'm always perplexed by how the minds of the dubas fan club operate. Please, elaborate.

You can probably literally sign guys that were projected to go in the 5th and 7th round right now.

What's the point.

 

[Garthinater]

That losing Hyman as the only downgrade isn't a huge loss compared to what other teams lost? Also probably pretty high on Mrazek and Bunting.

But it was mostly a reply to people that use WAR for certain players and judge accordingly, while the same model is extremely optimistic for the Leafs in the same breath.

Can't take one facet and ignore the other, right?

Or maybe using WAR is just not a good way to judge players or teams in hockey?

Anyone that has us above Tampa, Florida or Boston has no idea what they are talking about.

But that's par for the course with the dubas fan boys.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Why is it a good thing that dubas didn't take 2 free draft picks?

How is that a win in your mind?

I'm always perplexed by how the minds of the dubas fan club operate. Please, elaborate.

2 free draft picks? Yeah, that is terrible. I was referring to the Hyman situation where nothing was offered for free. In fact, the Leafs would have to sign Hyman to an 8 year deal and trade him thereby saving Edmonton 3 million in cap space over the course of the deal. Now, these free draft picks you are referring to where a team would just surrender draft picks out of the sheer joy of giving and there is absolutely no return- not even a thank you, Dubas would be crazy to turn that down.

 

[Bluelines]

You can probably literally sign guys that were projected to go in the 5th and 7th round right now.

What's the point.

What's the point to not taking 2 free picks?

Picks are currency, no matter how low they are....

2010, Toronto traded Arizonas 4th round pick to Washington, that pick turned out to be Phillip Grubauer ... rarely low picks turn into something...

I can't recall a GM ever saying , Damn it I have too many picks...

 

[A1LeafNation]

Lmao wow so this is really how the dubas fan club thinks? I was fairly certain but thanks for proving my point!

I'm not in the Dubas fan club. 2 late round picks get some ppl off...not me.

 

[Garthinater]

Yeah I've been neutral on Dubas, but saying he lost Foligno for nothing is not correct. Now, overpaying for Foligno is another story altogether.

He also couldn't just trade Andersen or Hyman during a "cup run" either.

But, once he inevitably lets Rielly walk for nothing in order to chase a ghost this year, that will be something to talk about

Dubas traded a 1st for foligo and just lost him for nothing. How is that not a loss?

Dubas decided to keep both freddy and hyman when he knew they were going to be lost next season. We lost in the 1st round both times. Dubas' gambles have failed everytime.

If he lets rielly walk for nothing, he will go down as one of the worst gms at asset management.

 

[Garthinater]

2 free draft picks? Yeah, that is terrible. I was referring to the Hyman situation where nothing was offered for free. In fact, the Leafs would have to sign Hyman to an 8 year deal and trade him thereby saving Edmonton 3 million in cap space over the course of the deal. Now, these free draft picks you are referring to where a team would just surrender draft picks out of the sheer joy of giving and there is absolutely no return- not even a thank you, Dubas would be crazy to turn that down.

Lmao it literally would've cost the leafs nothing and they would've gotten 2 picks for free. We already were going to lose hyman and if we had traded him he wouldn't affect our cap.

The fact you can convince yourself its a win tells me all I need to know. Thank you.

 

[hotpaws]

I'm not in the Dubas fan club. 2 late round picks get some ppl off...not me.

so not having the picks is somehow better ?

 

[Garthinater]

I'm not in the Dubas fan club. 2 late round picks get some ppl off...not me.

Draft picks are currency. We can package multiple to move up in the draft. This is very basic logic.

Anyone saying we shouldnt have taken 2 free picks when it would've cost us literally nothing has no idea what they are talking about.

 

[ryno23]

I have no problem with Dubas not taking the offer for Hyman. Part of it is optics. He refuses a pity offer from Holland so Holland can save the Oilers 750 K a year on the cap. Other GMs won't think Dubas can be bullied into a bad deal.

Sure a 5th this past draft and a 7th next year is ok but really you've seen the teams that hold cap space for other teams for 1 year only get bigger returns. Dubas was going to save 750k for 8 years on Hyman so that is huge. Maybe down the road that 750K will hurt

Right now the Oilers have 1.2 mil left to sign Yamamto and Foegle. So if Dubas gives Holland that extra 750K that could allow Holland to get both players signed without having to lose a player. What happens if Oiler gotta trade a guy to a team to get those 2 players under the cap. Team X getting a player from the Oilers might then free up a player their team who might be of interest to Dubas.

No reason to help out someone if your price isn't met. Now if he was this defiant in the negotiations for Marner Leafs would be in a better spot

 

[A1LeafNation]

Draft picks are currency. We can package multiple to move up in the draft. This is very basic logic.

Anyone saying we shouldnt have taken 2 free picks when it would've cost us literally nothing has no idea what they are talking about.

You know what else is currency. Cap space. Oilers don't have as much as they would like now.

 

[Garthinater]

I have no problem with Dubas not taking the offer for Hyman. Part of it is optics. He refuses a pity offer from Holland so Holland can save the Oilers 750 K a year on the cap. Other GMs won't think Dubas can be bullied into a bad deal.

Sure a 5th this past draft and a 7th next year is ok but really you've seen the teams that hold cap space for other teams for 1 year only get bigger returns. Dubas was going to save 750k for 8 years on Hyman so that is huge. Maybe down the road that 750K will hurt

Right now the Oilers have 1.2 mil left to sign Yamamto and Foegle. So if Dubas gives Holland that extra 750K that could allow Holland to get both players signed without having to lose a player. What happens if Oiler gotta trade a guy to a team to get those 2 players under the cap. Team X getting a player from the Oilers might then free up a player their team who might be of interest to Dubas.

No reason to help out someone if your price isn't met. Now if he was this defiant in the negotiations for Marner Leafs would be in a better spot

Why did dubas wait until now to show he won't be pushed around?

Far to late for that. If anything, dubas comes across as very foolish in this situation.

If they were dumping a contract, sure they would have to give us more. But we took on nothing. And dubas still wanted more from them lmao

 

[Garthinater]

You know what else is currency. Cap space. Oilers don't have as much as they would like now.

Thats nice. But what does their cap have to do with our assets? Them saving 500k a year has no effect on us. Them giving us 2 free picks how ever can be used to better our team.

You are not using any logic whatsoever.

 

[The Legend]

So we're about to win six Cups?

Sure? I'm not the one that brought up the Bulls

 

[Bomber0104]

You know what else is currency. Cap space. Oilers don't have as much as they would like now.

Edmonton's salary cap structure is almost completely inconsequential to Toronto.

Nevermind division, we aren't even in the same conference anymore.